Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th September 2011, 13:39   #1
Senior - BHPian
 
xingamazon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,399
Thanked: 110 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

This has been bugging me for a long time now.

Suzuki as we know have always faced limitations in terms of the number of Diesel engines that they cant produce. This is mainly because of the licence limitation set in place with Fiat for producing the diesel engine (corect me if I am wrong).

But my quesiton is since they have been having this issue for last 2 years, and since they have an ambitious plan of launching 20 products in next few years wouldnt it be worthwhile for them to engage the research team and get a diesel engine for themselves instead of depending of Fiat.

Few points from my side on making the case fo suzuki to go alone on diesel engine:
  1. Too much dependancy from Fiat on engine not helping the growing demand for Diesel cars in India.
  2. Ambitious plans of launching 20 vehicles will fail terribly if they dont have constant supply of diesel engines.
  3. Break of jinx of one engine fits all strategy: they are going to need engine for different models requiring different capacity of diesel engines from A-Star till GV.
  4. When Tata and Mahindra have thought of this strategy before they launched thier product, why cant Suzuki consider this as an option.
  5. Independance from VW: This move would ensure they operate independently from VW. Else they have to lean back to VW's Diesel engine if they have a tussle with Fiat.
  6. They should be having a huge corpus of profits with the number of vehicles that they are selling. Its hightime they make right use of it. Instead of putting the money to bring in more capacity and more models.
I am guessing there would have been some limitation from Suzuki side to not starting to developing Diesel engine.

Can I know them, does anyone have an idea on whats stopping them from doing it?

Last edited by xingamazon : 7th September 2011 at 13:40.
xingamazon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 13:42   #2
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 633
Thanked: 624 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make Diesel Engines of thier own.

The answer is simple. They don't have the expertice.

And to add a couple more points - Suzuki doesn't have the same fan following in other countries as it has in India. Hence the consolidated profit may not allow them to make a huge investment to build the expertise.

At present, the business model might favor outsourcing manufacturing diesel engines, hence they are sticking with it.

Last edited by CliffHanger : 7th September 2011 at 13:45.
CliffHanger is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:00   #3
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,160
Thanked: 3,755 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make Diesel Engines of thier own.

@CliffHanger; The VW deal may also give them another option to source their oil burners.
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:09   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
ghodlur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Thane
Posts: 5,039
Thanked: 2,075 Times
Red face Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Isn't the lact of expertise forcing Suzuki to source the engines from outside. One way thats profitable too, insetad of having to invest additional capital in setting up a plant to manufactures those engine, always better to outsource it, pay royalty and get the engines. I dont think so even with the alliance with VW, Suzuki is going to stop going for Fiat engines.
ghodlur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:13   #5
BHPian
 
A350XWB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: BLR/FRA/STR
Posts: 790
Thanked: 525 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make Diesel Engines of thier own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
The answer is simple. They don't have the expertice.
Suzuki never really was interested in diesel engines. I remember having an Auto India quoting one of the top officials of Suzuki saying that "Diesel is a dirty fuel, we will never use it in our passenger cars!". As we all know, they had to eat their words due to the changed situations. AFAIK, the two Japanese car companies who really invested in diesel technology were Toyota and Nissan.
A350XWB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:15   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
ashis89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,313
Thanked: 1,043 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make Diesel Engines of thier own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@CliffHanger; The VW deal may also give them another option to source their oil burners.
Today's ET states that Suzuki and VW are on the verge of split due to differences. Their alliance may break before taking off.

Given the volume of Indian diesel market and some other markets abroad, Suzuki should start developing its own diesel engine range or atleast license the engine and manufacture at its own SEPARATE plant.
ashis89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:22   #7
BHPian
 
nkg77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Trivandrum, Kerala
Posts: 227
Thanked: 141 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make Diesel Engines of thier own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
Suzuki should start developing its own diesel engine range or atleast license the engine and manufacture at its own SEPARATE plant.
Suzuki is doing exactly the same you have mentioned. They are manufacturing DDIS engines at their Manesar Facility based on the license obtained from Fiat.
nkg77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:22   #8
BHPian
 
acroback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 314
Thanked: 125 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Internal Combustion engines are not as simple as they appear in texts/manuals/wiki/books.
They are highly complex pieces of engineering.

Building an engine starts from conceptualization, designing, prototyping and finally very extensive testing.
A diesel engine is actually very different from a Petrol engine which makes it even more difficult to rely on petrol engine expertise.

The amount of capital and resources you put in designing a new diesel engine will be very high. No doubt Suzuki knows it. So instead of spending millions of dollars and perhaps a lot of time ( years ), they thought it is best to pay a premium of 50K to fiat for their diesel engines.

But if they do want to build a good diesel engine, they should start asap because it will take a lot of research and resources. Some good patents on Diesel engines are owned by European companies, so they have to put in a lot more effort than what it seems.

My 2 cents .
acroback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:28   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
ashis89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,313
Thanked: 1,043 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

But still there is a shortfall in production??? I guess the plant is not dedicated to DDiS only....
ashis89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:32   #10
BHPian
 
fuel_addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 688
Thanked: 111 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
But still there is a shortfall in production??? I guess the plant is not dedicated to DDiS only....
They have also cut down on exports of the diesel engine to meet domestic demands. Obviously, the labour issues at Manesar are not helping.
fuel_addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:39   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
ashis89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,313
Thanked: 1,043 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuel_addict View Post
They have also cut down on exports of the diesel engine to meet domestic demands. Obviously, the labour issues at Manesar are not helping.
. Labour issue is still going on IIRC? Due to this issue and a huge backlog for Swift,further booking of the car has been stopped in many places. The present booking order is for 90000 Swifts
ashis89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:49   #12
BHPian
 
fuel_addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 688
Thanked: 111 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
. Labour issue is still going on IIRC? Due to this issue and a huge backlog for Swift,further booking of the car has been stopped in many places. The present booking order is for 90000 Swifts
And they expect all the backlogs to be cleared by April 2012 at this rate. How about that!
fuel_addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:54   #13
BHPian
 
k_nitin_r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Dubai,Hyderabad
Posts: 470
Thanked: 74 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

The demand for a diesel engine for passenger vehicles is primarily in developing nations therefore the research and development investment in the development of a new diesel engine is harder to recover. Petrol engines can be used in all markets across the globe so it is easier to justify such an expense. Also, as Suzuki has positioned itself toward the manufacture of economical, fuel-efficient vehicles, the management has a better case to justify its investment in small petrol engines.
k_nitin_r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:56   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
ashis89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,313
Thanked: 1,043 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuel_addict View Post
And they expect all the backlogs to be cleared by April 2012 at this rate. How about that!
The dealers are unofficially stating the deliveries will take more than 1 year for sure! How does this sound?

My dad is planning to book one but i am not sure if we should go ahead.

Last edited by ashis89 : 7th September 2011 at 15:01.
ashis89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2011, 14:56   #15
BHPian
 
vinya_jag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 342
Thanked: 163 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

AFAIK:
There are not many diesel manufacturers across the world.
Its Bosch doing bulk of the engineering and the rest reaping benefits.
The CRDI is an old technology now, The ceramic injectors are all done by Bosch.
All these manufacturers be it Tata/ Hyundai/ Fiat have a tweak to the Bosch products, they assemble it their own way and produce diesels motors.

And if Suzuki decides to develop a diesel now, it still will be sourcing a lot of IPRs and components from Bosch, which will still be a costly thing. So, why not but an engine itself than going for an engine labeled Suzuki?
vinya_jag is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why cant we get a nice compact Diesel SUV/Crossover in the price range of Rs 4-7 Lacs shankar.balan The Indian Car Scene 151 19th February 2013 17:46
Difference between old engines and new engines (petrol and diesel) srijit Technical Stuff 32 26th January 2011 10:20
2011 i10 Asta A/T - its Korean, its new, its fast, its red, and its coming. nirupesh Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 1 8th January 2011 10:45
101 Reasons as to why you cant make it to the national Meet Godfather The Team-BHP Meet Section 78 26th May 2006 12:56


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:34.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks