Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th April 2012, 01:43   #76
Distinguished - BHPian
 
smartcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,977
Thanked: 11,928 Times
Default Re: For a bit of common sense at Toll Booths

The queue at toll gate bothers me only if the wait is for more than 5 minutes.

The actual toll that I pay doesn't bother me much, as long as I get good roads.

Most of the toll roads are based on BOO basis - Build, Own & Operate. But although the construction company builds the road, they are not given a free hand to charge whatever they want. They are either allowed to earn a fixed RoE (Return on Equity), say 15%. That's why you see weird prices - Rs. 42, Rs. 51 etc. Sometimes, If they are allowed to increase prices, it is generally a percentage per year. It is again fixed in the long term contract (with a few exceptions for unexpected large expenses like road repair etc)

The high tech solution for both long queues & money denomination issue is large scale implementation of electronic toll collection.
Electronic toll collection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by smartcat : 19th April 2012 at 01:44.
smartcat is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2012, 07:17   #77
Senior - BHPian
 
wilful's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: cochin
Posts: 1,120
Thanked: 862 Times
Default Re: For a bit of common sense at Toll Booths

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
The queue at toll gate bothers me only if the wait is for more than 5 minutes.
The high tech solution for both long queues & money denomination issue is large scale implementation of electronic toll collection.
Electronic toll collection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I am a strong votary of using technology to solve this issue. I have seen it done elsewhere successfully. The savings by way of fuel (not wasted) and time is significant.
wilful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2012, 07:38   #78
Senior - BHPian
 
ghodlur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Thane
Posts: 5,041
Thanked: 2,086 Times
Angry Re: For a bit of common sense at Toll Booths

Good thoughts. If wishes were only horses, I would wish to do away with the toll altogether esp in the cities like Mumbai/Thane where IMO its a fleece by the state govts taking a toll from vehicle traversing a distance of 30 odd kms between Mumbai/Thane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
3) Penalize those who use the wrong lane at the toll booths (normal cash payers in Monthly toll lanes, or Trucks in Car lanes) by charging them double or triple the toll.
I have written n number of times to the MSRDC guys during the Mulund flyover constructions and otherwise as well about this suggestion but to no luck. The monthly toll line seems to be evergrowing with vehicles paying cash. The thing which further irritates me is the drivers reaching for their wallets after reaching the booth which further delays the traffic. Yet the resilient Mumbaite/Thaneite prefer to wait and watch.
ghodlur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2012, 07:55   #79
Senior - BHPian
 
sandeepmohan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wellington
Posts: 1,944
Thanked: 1,626 Times
Default Re: For a bit of common sense at Toll Booths

I have no problems with paying to use a well paved road but Yes, the system of paying to use it must be made easier and then, there a couple more things that I wish to have, considering the cost of using the road and I say this as it is getting more expensive to use a toll road by the year.

Lets say, I travel from Bangalore to Chennai or Coimbatore. Give me the option to pay up for all tolls enroute at the first toll out of Bangalore. How they distribute the money across other borders or other sectors is not my headache. With the combination of some genius software and the power of the internet, I know it can be done easily. This obviously means a dedicated by pass lane at every other toll booth. It can be implemented and there will be hiccups initially but that is just how it is with everythying new in this country.

The user of the toll road must be held accountable for any damage to property. Sure you paid toll, that does not mean you can destroy highway property due to reckless driving and walk away.

No permit for vehicles that do not have their lights in order. This is something that needs to be checked even before the vehicle can be on any road, not just for using a toll road.

Get rid of openings in the divider. When I am paying to use a road, there needs to be some safety along with it. In the present scenario, if I crash into someone who decided to dart across the highway, I am held accountable. Why?

Please introduce a cash less system to pay. It could be a smart card or whatever. Something that I can tank up at home over the internet before I set out for a journey. I don't have a problem with odd numbers, just make it easier to pay. Introduce debit,credit card machines.
sandeepmohan is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2012, 08:58   #80
BHPian
 
AirWind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 809
Thanked: 76 Times
Default Re: For a bit of common sense at Toll Booths

In Malaysia, the North to South toll roads are intact, meaning, wherever you get into the paid road, collect an automated barcode token at entry and for whatever distance covered, pay at the exit. There are no intersections nor they run thru habitations (cities/towns/villages) unlike India which has so many intersections that are accident prone.

In India, perhaps the government abolish the tolls collected and instead charge a cess on the petrol or diesel sold all over. So the customer pays per usage on any road.
AirWind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2012, 10:29   #81
Distinguished - BHPian
 
smartcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,977
Thanked: 11,928 Times
Default Re: For a bit of common sense at Toll Booths

You cannot do away with tolls. The Govt doesn't have the funds nor the ability to build so many roads. So NHAI puts out a tender and its the private players who put in their money to build roads. And such private companies would like to generate revenue from road users directly. No private company will invest in this sector if they are to get their revenues through unreliable Government reimbursement.

Other than BOO, there is one more concept called BOOT - Build, Own, Operate and Transfer. In such cases, the private infrastructure company builds and makes the system operational. They then transfer the project to the Government for a fixed sum. Such projects can be indirectly funded via cess on petrol/diesel or cess on vehicles registrations. But then -

- Why should a guy in a village near Lucknow pay cess on the petrol/diesel or new vehicle registrations to fund toll roads which he will never use?

- Private players don't prefer BOOT projects because margins will be low and project risks (cost escalation etc) would be high. Many a time, NHAI puts out tender for highway projects and there would be no takers.
smartcat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2012, 10:50   #82
BHPian
 
vinya_jag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 342
Thanked: 163 Times
Default Re: For a bit of common sense at Toll Booths

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
The high tech solution for both long queues & money denomination issue is large scale implementation of electronic toll collection.
Electronic toll collection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Easiest way out is the electronic toll
I was in Sydney in the year 05-06 and this system was in place for some years even before 04-05.
A simple prepaid unit in each car/ 2 wheeler which is no bigger than a mobile phone.
How difficult is this?
Can't we have 2 lanes of this? And the rest who don't have this unit installed could go for the paid lanes.

This is bound to happen in the near future. We sure cannot afford to have super highways and spend time at the toll booths
vinya_jag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2012, 10:51   #83
Distinguished - BHPian
 
mpksuhas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: KA03/KL11
Posts: 2,720
Thanked: 3,303 Times
Default Re: For a bit of common sense at Toll Booths

Well, Iam not against the idea of having toll roads. Though I agree that the crazy road taxes we pay or the fuel taxes should have been partly used for improving this. However, what drives nuts is that many of the toll roads/ bridges are in horrible state and inspite of we forced to pay up. Chennai- Sriperumpudur - Walajapet route being the example. Parts of the road is in really bad state.
Regarding toll booths, yes I have felt on a weekend drive I spend nearly 15-25 mins paying up toll on Chennai- Bangalore strech of GQ, this for a travel of around 350 Kms.
We can also do our bit in helping out reducing the rush by trying to stick to correct lane, switching off headlights so that attendant can make out registration number easily and so on.
mpksuhas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2012, 10:51   #84
BHPian
 
jalsa777's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 637
Thanked: 1,044 Times
Default Re: For a bit of common sense at Toll Booths

The solution to the problem:


Quote:
India gets its first RFID technology based electronic toll plaza!
For National Highway users, long wait at toll plazas will soon be a thing of the past. Country’s first radio frequency identification (RFID)-technology based toll collection plazas will be inaugurated on April 19 at Chandimandir near Punchkula in Haryana on Delhi-Chandigarh highway.
Source: Pluggd.in


I hope there will be one centralized system for all tolls around the country. Or else, each state and city will have its own RFID card and the whole purpose will be lost. And the way things operate in our country, I fully expect to have multiple systems.

Last edited by jalsa777 : 19th April 2012 at 10:53.
jalsa777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2012, 10:54   #85
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 3,059
Thanked: 4,659 Times
Default Re: For a bit of common sense at Toll Booths

Dear ACM - you have some good suggestions but it is difficult to implement in our country which thrives on creating chaos. The "wrong lane" fellow will insist on reversing, creating road rage. In our country, there is a critical mass of people who do not have basic common sense!

Dear all - I have a suggestion. In the budget speech, the Finance Minister who represents the Central Government must announce "Toll Free Days on 15 August and 26 January". He can also request the respective states to nominate one day of their choice in a year as a "Toll Free Day". In Maharashtra, obviously this day would be 1 May. The loss in revenue will be minimum, the political gain will be enormous. Motorists will get an extremely positive signal from the government. I hope somebody reads this and implements it.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
DHABHAR.BEHRAM is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2012, 11:24   #86
Senior - BHPian
 
srishiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,580
Thanked: 823 Times
Default Re: Should India Abolish Toll Gates and checkpoints in favour of vignettes?

First they should allow us to buy the tickets at the entry to the end of our journey. There is no need to wait at all toll booths. They should have fast scanners on some additional lanes for this.
I think the govt is trying to sneak away from its responsibility of building and maintaining roads even after collecting the tax for the same. In the west U.S, the freeways are not tolled (even in high snow areas of Rocky mountains). We should be able to have toll free roads.
srishiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2012, 11:48   #87
Senior - BHPian
 
Rahulk76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: PNQ
Posts: 1,133
Thanked: 204 Times
Default Re: Should India Abolish Toll Gates and checkpoints in favour of vignettes?

Well,

There could be a minimal cess 1% of the value of the 2/4 wheeler when we purchase a car say eg. for 5/7 years validity which goes to the NHAI coffers. Then renewed every 5/7 years. The database of Vahaan project is almost upto date and in years i guess it will be smarter.

That validity can be also mentioned on the smart card to assure no harrasment on the roads when checking.

This way the money of 1% assuringly (hopefully) multiplies by the no of vehicles sold and the amount would equal or better the tolls they collect.

No pain for the motorists/Truckers using the roads anywhere in India.

Sigh.. if only wishes were true.
Rahulk76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2012, 11:56   #88
Senior - BHPian
 
ghodlur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Thane
Posts: 5,041
Thanked: 2,086 Times
Smile Re: For a bit of common sense at Toll Booths

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
He can also request the respective states to nominate one day of their choice in a year as a "Toll Free Day". In Maharashtra, obviously this day would be 1 May. The loss in revenue will be minimum, the political gain will be enormous. Motorists will get an extremely positive signal from the government. I hope somebody reads this and implements it.
If this initiative gets implemented nothing like it. But wouldnt this have a cascading effect with each section of the society demanding their own toll free day. The motorists would want to have this privilage every other day
ghodlur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2012, 11:40   #89
ACM
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ACM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,154
Thanked: 2,460 Times
Default Re: For a bit of common sense at Toll Booths

Dear All

Am repeating the three suggestions that I had made earlier (without the detailed explanation). I really believe they would work and that any suggestion or change that we may expect to be implemented in India would normally be accepted only if there was no financial loss to the govt. That is what I am proposing. It is only about increasing convenience and reducing wastage but at no stage does this cause a loss to the govt and infact the govt and the public both benefit due to the savings in time and fuel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
So to sum it up, what am I proposing?
1) Charge Double the Toll one way and keep the other way free. Have more lanes on the side on which toll is charged by increasing the road width at the cost of the other side.
2) Have round figure values for the toll to be charged. The Govt. needs to work that out by putting more effort into the design of the Toll Collection agreements for BOT Projects.
3) Penalize those who use the wrong lane at the toll booths (normal cash payers in Monthly toll lanes, or Trucks in Car lanes) by charging them double or triple the toll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
Answers:
1. Why dont they just do away with the toll ? COme up with annual registrations for all vehicles and include a flat fee for road access. That will save a whole lot of time and eyesore of a toll booth. Anyways we are living in times worse than the british raj. To go anywhere across the country you have to pay toll and solve a whole lot of other problems.
This toll system is is an infringment of basic right of mobility. I dont support the argument that infrastructure development needs money. The govt is already charging taxes for that. All the tax money goes to the scum in the scam. Scam is become like an arbitrary toll tax on the national exchequer.

3. Penalizing anyone means another queue for fines!!!!!!!!!!
..
Yep Jay but I guess the govt would loose x funds due to there being no toll so let them keep it but atleast not waste our time on it. The penalty bit is simple just give the person coming at the wrong booth two toll tickets instead of one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parsh View Post
Really nice thoughts, and at that an appeal to use Common Sense to all. More often we just get queued up wrongly, keep waiting for the clearance ahead, getting feel of what if I was in that fast moving lane, shall I cut through the lane to go ahead or into the fast moving lane, what if people, especially Trucks and heavy vehicles etc really followed the norms going into their specific lanes and not getting into other vehicle lanes.

Your thoughts are quite right to some extent. However a few perspectives come to mind:

Also,
4. Pre-Printed Receipts Handed Down: Toll Booths at busy places just keep some toll receipts ready to hand down to commuters. At times there is fraud happening of giving old receipts and commuters not being able to check it properly (as it is the prints on these receipts are so poor that one is not able to identify 100% unless one stops and checks it properly) due to need to hasten up the lane due to lane traffic as well as own haste. If any commuter slows down, the response from the lane and the toll booth guys is just to hurry by hand-signals, verbal shouts and honking from behind by the vehicles in the lane. How sane is that?
Thanks for more or less agreeing with 1,2,3. In outstation toll booths the toll tickets are supposed to mention the registation number of the cars so pre printing is not possible (they also take and save a snap of the car automatically) but that said in the last trip from Bombay to Baroda and back all 8 times the toll ticket had incorrect registation numbers typed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by faustus77 View Post
Hi everybody
On 3rd april when driving from Bhavnagar to Bombay there was a 3km jam at the toll naka between Bharuch and Ankleshwar.Though there is a separate lane for cars but to get there was not possible as every nook and cranny was jammed.
I wanted to take the golden bridge over the Narmada river(I advise this in all my posts) but I could not even approach the turning(which was much before the toll booth) to go into the city.
The toll is rs18 only but it would have taken more than an hour to clear so I just checked into a hotel for the night.Next morning with cops regulating the traffic it was not bad.
Regards
I take this route often and it is a bit of a lottery. I have once spent 7 hrs for the 7 kms line before the toll booth while on other days I have passed in 5 mins or on there days have had to do this 7 kms on the opp side of the road or risk being stuck overnight like you. The problem is one of the bridges over the narmada river needs to be replaced as it cannot take truck loads and so trucks are passed both ways from the same bridge and as yet they have not started construction of a new bridge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...vignettes.html (Should India Abolish Toll Gates and checkpoints in favour of vignettes?)

You are six months too late sir.

as for tolls, i was once told by someone in DGSCL that the NHAI act apparently does not include provisions for challaning cash payers using the tag lane (or suchlike issues). Therefore, the mess we face, daily.
Had noted the thread but wished my Ideas to get across freshly as I believe they can be easily implemented if someone uses a bit of will and common sense. Also for using the wrong lane am just suggesting a double ticket. Yes as you mention they could be some minor legal loop holds buts then we find ways to go around them for our convenience ever so oftern (expecially in the govt if there is money to be made.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
The queue at toll gate bothers me only if the wait is for more than 5 minutes.

Most of the toll roads are based on BOO basis - Build, Own & Operate. But although the construction company builds the road, they are not given a free hand to charge whatever they want. They are either allowed to earn a fixed RoE (Return on Equity), say 15%. That's why you see weird prices - Rs. 42, Rs. 51 etc. Sometimes, If they are allowed to increase prices, it is generally a percentage per year. It is again fixed in the long term contract (with a few exceptions for unexpected large expenses like road repair etc)

The high tech solution for both long queues & money denomination issue is large scale implementation of electronic toll collection.
Electronic toll collection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nothing stops the govt from ensuring that the toll agreement ensures that toll is in multiples of Rs. 5 and account for that deviation in collection amounts.

Yep ultimately electronic tags in our cars should allow for automatic deduction of toll like say in Taiwan and so many othere places around the world but till then lets pitch for the ideas that I have put across for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
Good thoughts. If wishes were only horses, I would wish to do away with the toll altogether esp in the cities like Mumbai/Thane where IMO its a fleece by the state govts taking a toll from vehicle traversing a distance of 30 odd kms between Mumbai/Thane.


I have written n number of times to the MSRDC guys during the Mulund flyover constructions and otherwise as well about this suggestion but to no luck. The monthly toll line seems to be evergrowing with vehicles paying cash. The thing which further irritates me is the drivers reaching for their wallets after reaching the booth which further delays the traffic. Yet the resilient Mumbaite/Thaneite prefer to wait and watch.
This is the route I take, as well and have faced the same issues. - Try it at night post 10pm when the trucks are allowed. Suggest you write to the chief Ministers office as well. - pls also give a link to this thread. Appreciate the effort already taken by you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear ACM - you have some good suggestions but it is difficult to implement in our country which thrives on creating chaos. The "wrong lane" fellow will insist on reversing, creating road rage. In our country, there is a critical mass of people who do not have basic common sense!
Behram Dhabhar
Yep Sir, But we do also manage to enforse so many rules to if this is made a rule and clearly mentioned no arguments need be entertained. Simply hand the guy a double ticked and keep a uniformed traffic police guy at the booth who will hand the guy an offical ticket for breaking traffic rules if he creates too much of a ruckus.
ACM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2016, 19:58   #90
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 205
Thanked: 117 Times
Default Re: Should India Abolish Toll Gates and checkpoints in favour of vignettes?

In the last few years, the situation at our toll booths has worsened with really long queues taking up to an hour sometimes on long weekends. To add to this, our crazy and impatient drivers make things much worse than they actually are. So i thought of bringing this thread back to life

In my opinion, the design of our highways is incorrect. We need to have proper entry and exit ramps. Obviously this needs more land which is in scarcity in this country. By having proper entry/exit ramps, what can then be done is that, we can have unmanned gates on entry ramps just issuing tickets and manned gates on exit ramps collecting the toll. That way probably the rush at toll booths will spread out and reduce. Yes, there would be queues at entry ramps but they would be moving as there is no payment involved. Taking an example, if I am travelling from Pune to Bangalore I would collect a token at Pune while entering NH4 and pay the money when I exit at Bangalore.
rohanak1 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Protecting highways using toll : How weight-based toll works for large vehicles sudev Commercial Vehicles 26 3rd November 2015 16:34
List of Safety checkpoints : When adding electrical accessories anoop_lamba Modifications & Accessories 19 11th December 2013 06:25
Maharaja Cars - Vintage Vignettes (Documentaries) travancore Pre-War 5 5th May 2010 16:49
Common smartcard for all toll gates, pilot project from Oct 31st rishab.k The Indian Car Scene 0 4th October 2009 10:20


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 14:52.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks