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Old 28th September 2011, 10:36   #16
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

Only in India, general public keeps a keen eye on everything the Army buys. And packs of Hyenas (read: bureaucrats/ babus) wait in anticipation to take a bigger share of the deal. Also, state government expect Army to give their land for development of the city, widening of roads etc (ref: Bangalore).

In the end, the least they are expected to do is guard our borders with sub-standard equipment and machinery.

Jai Hind!
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Old 28th September 2011, 10:52   #17
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

Fact #1 Pajero is a better 4X4 vehicle than a T-Fort



Fact #2 Army doesn't need Official *** for maintenance of its vehicles. They already have guys who can do a much better job.

Fact #3 If some people are willing to die for our safety, they do deserve a chance to save their own lives when competing against a much better equipped + strategically better located Chinese army. Considering the topography of the area, they need all the equipment help they can get.

Fact #4 The amount of money lost in scams and corruption only in 2011 was probably enough to replace ALL military Jongas, MM540s, and Gypsys to Pajeros with change to spare.
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Old 28th September 2011, 11:22   #18
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

It is indeed great that the army has moved beyond the OEF and PSU mindset, and is now looking at the private sector. They will get better engineered products, with higher reliability and lower costs. Customisation will be required!
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Old 28th September 2011, 11:24   #19
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

@Parm: Think of a road near a school. The road is for fast movement of traffic. But the school demands safety for the children. That is paramount, whatever the cost to movement of traffic and 2 speed breakers are installed as long as the school is there. A more expensive solution would be to build barriers and path ways or build a bridge. For border areas, in addition to building the usual infrastructure the Government has to build equally appropriate defenses. With limited resources available, it was natural to concentrate on areas that were most vulnerable like fertile Punjab. Areas with natural barriers like the Himalayas, marshlands in Gujarat obviously will take lesser priority until we have the resources. It is a matter of time to get those resources. It is also a political decision to concentrate on one of our aggressive neighbors over the other, and use global diplomacy as deterrent against the other. We have a very long border with 2 hostile neighbors so it will take time. But we will eventually improve border infrastructure thanks to our vibrant economy. Please give it time.

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Originally Posted by mac187 View Post
Only in India, general public keeps a keen eye on everything the Army buys. And packs of Hyenas (read: bureaucrats/ babus) wait in anticipation to take a bigger share of the deal. Also, state government expect Army to give their land for development of the city, widening of roads etc (ref: Bangalore).

In the end, the least they are expected to do is guard our borders with sub-standard equipment and machinery.

Jai Hind!
@mac187: I hope the sacred "Jai Hind!" in your sarcastic post is also not part of the sarcasm. Kindly allow me to edit your paragraph:
"Only in India, general public keeps a keen eye on everything the Army buys. And packs of Hyenas (read: bureaucrats/ babus) wait in anticipation to take a bigger share of the deal."
Because large flocks of Sheep (read: Uninvolved citizens) don't want to be the Lions (read: Involved citizens) to keep the Hyenas away.
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Old 28th September 2011, 11:29   #20
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

Wow, this is great news. Wish only we had deployed the ideal equipment in another parts of our border, then in which case India's geographical and political maps today would have resembled those in our school text books since Aug 15, 1947. Never too late. Kudos for India opening up, post the anti-corruption drives.

Jai Jawan! Pamper them. We love them, for what they do for our country.

BH.

Last edited by BurningHeart : 28th September 2011 at 11:31.
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Old 28th September 2011, 11:43   #21
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

I'm glad the Jawans who protect our border have got the Pajero. It might be 10 years old, but army specs might be quite different from the civilian specs (of course this is speculation). In any case, Pajero is quite a beast and an extremely capable off-roader. I personally think this was an excellent choice.

BTW, whatever happened to the Mahindra AXE. It looked wickedly rugged.
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Old 28th September 2011, 11:45   #22
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

So we can line up for army auctions of Pajeores. Awesome.

I think TATA should give the Defender to the Army. Make it 100% localized first (ship the machines from ol blighty here). That would make a perfect Army vehicle.

And if mass produced would cost much less then the Pajero for sure.
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Old 28th September 2011, 12:14   #23
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

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So we can line up for army auctions of Pajeores. Awesome.


This one had me in splits. The discussion on the thread was getting heated up, I would have never thought on these lines.
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Old 28th September 2011, 15:25   #24
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

Quote:
Originally Posted by SedatedDrive View Post
@Parm: Think of a road near a school. The road is for fast movement of traffic. But the school demands safety for the children. That is paramount, whatever the cost to movement of traffic and 2 speed breakers are installed as long as the school is there. A more expensive solution would be to build barriers and path ways or build a bridge. For border areas, in addition to building the usual infrastructure the Government has to build equally appropriate defenses. With limited resources available, it was natural to concentrate on areas that were most vulnerable like fertile Punjab. Areas with natural barriers like the Himalayas, marshlands in Gujarat obviously will take lesser priority until we have the resources. It is a matter of time to get those resources. It is also a political decision to concentrate on one of our aggressive neighbors over the other, and use global diplomacy as deterrent against the other. We have a very long border with 2 hostile neighbors so it will take time. But we will eventually improve border infrastructure thanks to our vibrant economy. Please give it time.
my question again is....why the govt is waking up to the fact that roads and other infrastructure is required for better moment of troops and equipment. it benefits our own army.

if we go by you point, then why the hell china is building so much of roads, railways and other infrastructure? that way no country should develop their border regions!

we have to make better arrangements for our defense, quick movement of men and equipment, thats the first priority!

worry about china using them is the least of worries!

Last edited by bblost : 28th September 2011 at 15:36. Reason: fixed quote tags.
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Old 28th September 2011, 15:42   #25
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
So we can line up for army auctions of Pajeores. Awesome.
You are spot on. I never really thought along those lines but yes, now a few years down the road, we may be able to pick up a used Pajero from army auctions. And I am sure this ex-Army Pajero will have beefed up suspension and other vital components which will make it more rugged than civilian Pajeros.
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Old 28th September 2011, 16:32   #26
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

I wonder if Pajero acquistion was result of delays in finalizing in the Light Strike Vehicle (LSV) tender.
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Old 28th September 2011, 16:38   #27
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

I think this just HM using their years of experience and contacts in Govt. sales to flog anything they manufacture!!
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Old 28th September 2011, 17:01   #28
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

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I think this just HM using their years of experience and contacts in Govt. sales to flog anything they manufacture!!
I certainly hope that this is not the case. We value the lives of our jawans very lightly if thats the criteria which decides what vehicles are to be bought to help our jawans defend our beloved country.
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Old 28th September 2011, 19:24   #29
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Smile Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

Pajero with LSD and superior 4WD than the Gypsy sure has an edge over it. But IMO, Gypsy with its narrow track, 210 mm ground clearance, rugged and simple 4WD and very light kerb weight is able to catch up with the Pajero almost all the time. The only real contender to Pajero's capabilities within the 20 lakh INR bracket is Gypsy.

It will be interesting to get a comparison of the approach/departure/breakover angle of both the beasts.

Pajero seems to be a very capable, comfortable and more powerful upgrade to Gypsy for the Jawans!

Personally, i never found the Gypsy gasping for power over any kind of turf. And while engaged with Low Range 4WD(ooh la la!), it feels like one can climb over trees.

The LSD of Pajero sure will provide increased off road top speed and better cornering abilities.
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Old 28th September 2011, 23:52   #30
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Default Re: Rugged Pajero for jawans posted in Sikkim

I saw a picture floating around the net in two different forums, supposedly of the Pajero in IA service. I can't vouch for the authenticity of the picture; I think the picture shows a Montero anyway.

Name:  Pajero_Army.jpg
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Thanks,
brahmos and blackwater in those forums
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