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Old 10th October 2011, 12:31   #46
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Default Re: Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-

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Originally Posted by Anarchy83 View Post
Hi Ajay,

No disrespect meant to you and other Tata vehicle owners - but my post is based on personal experience - the Tata Safari owner I was talking about is family and lives with us. If that isn't authentic feedback, I don't know what is.

In fact, I would request you to tell me how you would treat Tata if this happened to you...would you not list it under "Top Letdown"?
I agree Anarchy83. As I said earlier, if I had had a terrible experience from Tata, I would have also referred to Tata as a big letdown. But, I am spared till date, touchwood!
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Old 10th October 2011, 12:36   #47
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Reliability of a car is something specific to the working/availability of the car. You definitely DO NOT want the car to breakdown somewhere when you on a long road trip hundreds of kilometers away from home (or the nearest service center). It should not involve the additional features the car comes with. For ex :- If the wipers/power windows/defoggers stop working, it's definitely a reliability issue. But if the USB port/CD player stop working, it' not.

Next factor is reliability is the time period. How long do you expect your car to be reliable ? This again differs with each person's requirement.

If you are planning to keep the car for 3-5 yrs only then American cars do the job. But after this time, you start getting issues. Japanese cars (the core like the engine/drivetrain) are built to last. They might not have all the 'cool' features offered by their competitors, but they do the job as long as the preventive maintenance is done as advised. This is the reason the Japanese manufacturers get away with giving less warranty (like 3yr/50,000 kms warranty, compared to 5 or 10 yr / 100,000 kms offered by competition) and still charge a premium for their cars (in-spite of less features )


Here's my list of reliable cars based on ownership experience

1. Nissan - has an enviable reputation in the international market. Being a late entrant in the Indian market, I think it's a matter of time before they catchup.
2. Honda
3. Toyota
4. Suzuki (on how many cars coming out of the the Maruti plant do you see the "M" logo ?)
5. Hyundai
6. Ford
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Old 10th October 2011, 12:52   #48
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Default Re: Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-

My 16 year old Zen performs flawlessly. I don't find any of the problems associated with new cars, like rattling, leakage, electrical, paint etc. Support has been good so far. So based on my experience would put Maruti at the top.

1. Maruti.

2. Honda. All my friends and relatives have had a good experience with the City.

3. Toyota. Their Innova is serving well. Have heard mixed reports on Etios twins.

4. Hyundai - Santro and Accent models. Few of my friends aren't very happy with the service levels these days, though used to be excellent a few years back, and the charges.

5. Chevy - Spark model. My friends tell me that the service guys are not so involved. They do additional things only if instructed.

Neutral

Nissan - Yet to hear of experiences
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Old 10th October 2011, 15:10   #49
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Default Re: Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-

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4. Hyundai - Santro and Accent models. Few of my friends aren't very happy with the service levels these days, though used to be excellent a few years back, and the charges.
Agreed. The Accent & santro and to some extent the old Verna were their best & most trouble free cars. We owned an Accent for six years, so I know. The only reason we bought the i20 was that we expected that the " unber cool i20" would be as trouble free as the Accent. But it turned out to be "uber troublesome" and started giving steering troubles from the beginning and several other issues got magnified due to that pitiful Hyundai workshop in Junagadh.

The success of i20 sales went into Hyundai's head and they thought steering issues in the i20 were isolated cases. They were initially refusing to acknowledge it as an issue and were calling it mental blocks and in some cases, calling the customers mad. BY the time they realised that majority of the i10s and i20s were affected, it probably was too late. Hence that TSB in September(IIRC) last year to do the yoke spring/plug replacement circus in all affected i10s and i20s.
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Old 10th October 2011, 16:03   #50
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Default Re: Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-

Scene in India always confuses me.
Going by the word of mouth and herd mentality I would rate-
1. Toyota
2. Honda
3. Maruti
4. Hyundai

If I go with the herd mentality there is no place for brands like Ford, Fiat, Chevy, Mahindra etc.

But, going by my personal experience from the people whom I know owning the brands, I would rate-
1. Fiat
2. Honda
3. Hyundai
4. Maruti

I have not considered models like Toyota etc. since I do not know anyone owning that brand.

Maruti has a hassle free service but what is the quality of service (and product?).. My friend gave his 47k done swift for service and the car was equally rattling even after service. No offence but in general I have seen that majority of Maruti customer are not so research oriented and can be very easily fooled by the service advisors. Something similar holds good for Hyundai as well.

I was lucky enough to get my fiat serviced at TASS who happen to fix some issues which so called as gurus of fiat could not. And if they can have power windows switches ready in inventory then I am sure other parts will not be a problem to procure.

As far as my Linea is concerned the service quality and experience was cent percent same as Honda which I last visited with my colleague.
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Old 10th October 2011, 16:07   #51
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Default Re: Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-

I would rate Toyota as the top for after sales service, as I have never heard of problems from any of my peers who own the T badge.
The second rank would be jointly shared between Maruti, Honda & Hyundai in terms of after sales experience however, I would rate Honda as more hassle free ownership then the earlier two cars. I used to own a Wagon R & now an i20, I am happy camper but, hasn't been without a few niggles.
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Old 10th October 2011, 17:00   #52
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Default Re: Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-

As with many others, I dont have any forehand experiences with any of the other manufacturers other than Maruti and Hyundai, but I would rate the below in the same order:

a) Maruti
b) Toyota
c) Honda
d) Hyundai
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Old 10th October 2011, 17:59   #53
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Default Re: Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-

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Originally Posted by souravc View Post
Doesn't the heading contain the word "perception" ? How many of us has or even will experience owning / driving a decent number of the various brands listed out in the opening remarks of the thread in our entire lifetime?? Does that mean that we should not be having a perception of a brand ? As long as it is mentioned that one has heard it from others rather than something that one has experienced that should be fine.
Half of the discussions / comparisons that happen on this forum would die a pre-mature death if we put a caveat that one has to necessarily experience a product to post one's opinion!
Only thing I said was, such a discussion is pointless. Because it only increases the "perception", and does not take into consideration if it is right or wrong.

And it is not like discussions in other threads, because when we discuss about products, we actually see the product in question. Or in case of products coming soon, we read about them in international auto sites. When someone says figo is more spacious than swift, he might have actually checked it out or maybe speaking based on figures on brochures

Why I posted my comment my comment is because the thread starter says and I quote
Quote:
The idea behind this thread is to create a ready reckoner for the BHPians while hunting for a new car. Long-term reliability and hassle-free ownership is a vital decision factor that most people need to take into account, and sometimes many forget to! A prospective car buyer also gets several conflicting views from different quarters and is at a loss.
Here too, that is what is happening.
Some are saying ford is good, some other say its bad. Some say hyundai is great, other say not so good.
How do you differentiate between perception based on actual experience(which is of higher value) and perception based on what is heard from friend's uncle's neighbor's son?
And taking decisions on others hearsay perspective is not a good idea.

For example I quote another post
Quote:
  • The most hassle-free to own: Japanese and Korean
  • Neutral: American
  • Poor after-sales and / or unreliable nature: European & Indian
Do you agree? you have a european car right? Tell me, is it unreliable. How many days were you stranded on the road, the air conditioning stopped working because your car is european?

Now, think how a persons decision could be impacted by skewed perspectives.

PS: I respect the comments of users whose posts I have quoted here, just used it to give my perspective

Last edited by mxx : 10th October 2011 at 18:00.
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Old 11th October 2011, 13:57   #54
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Default Re: Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-

I just want to try and provide some reasoning to a lot of ratings here.

Tata--The reason many of us have the perception is because we have owned / used the older Tata cars such as the indica / indigo or even a sierra or a sumo. The newer cars such as the manza or the vista are better and even more reliable { thanks to fiat engines}, but the service centers have not bettered their levels of operation.
My dad has owned 2 sierras and an older generation indica in the past and I can tell you that the issues were just endless. The indica, bought new, started making such weird mechanical noises just after 20k! He has then moved on to a Logan and is happy with the car.

Fiat--Mostly bought by Car enthusiasts, who understand the product and truly love the car. i say this because in spite of Fiat's uncertain image in the market, if some one goes out and buys a fiat, its a tribute to the product. And these people feel hassled at tata showrooms as they are treated in the same way as a indica cab driver. With no offence to the old indica nor the cab driver, they probably expect less from any service / dealership. I know 2 people who have changed at least 4 service centers for their linea / punto { in 2 different cities} as they were not satisfied with the service levels. My friend in fact wrote to the fiat India chief to get his issue resolved.

Lastly, my Take on Maruti---I would rate them no 1 just for the sheer number of vehicles they handle. I agree they may not be at par with other cars such as Honda / VW in terms of finish, but you dont pay so much for the car as well. The service costs are moderate, so are the spare part prices. The cars for most of the time are reliable and you wouldnt think twice before heading to any long trip. I have owned a dzire ddis and an alto for 3.5 years now and can safely say that my car and neither maruti's service has never let me down. A very "SAFE" bet on any given day and that is why Maruti is no 1 in India today.
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Old 11th October 2011, 14:50   #55
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Default Re: Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxx View Post
Do you agree? you have a european car right? Tell me, is it unreliable. How many days were you stranded on the road, the air conditioning stopped working because your car is European?
I agree. Mine is European and I agree this point 'Poor after-sales and / or unreliable nature' not cause of 'Unreliable nature' but for 'Poor after-sales'.

By the way I'm very happy with my car . And I'm happy with my decision to go for it. I do suggest Fiat to others BUT with lot of disclaimers .
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Old 11th October 2011, 14:51   #56
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Default Re: Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-

I would rate Hyundai to be just about average. They service my i10 well, but FAIL big time when it comes to even minor repairs. My i10 is impeccably reliable though.

Oh, and I see MANY people calling Fiat and Tata unreliable. For what joy? Half the people commenting about TF aftersales don't seem to own one. Agreed, the thread title is about 'perceptions', and people have had unpleasant experiences, but is it reasonable to comment about the AfSS of these brands based on hearsay? If it is, then Hyundai too could find a place in the "worst" list.

I'd appreciate it if ownerS' come forward with their feedback for their cars.

Besides, forget AfSS; my Pre-sales & booking experience has been far better with Tata-Fiat than Hyundai.
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Old 11th October 2011, 15:02   #57
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Default Re: Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-

BMW tops my list thanks to the BSI package. I am not going to praise this package or brand any further than I already have. BMW ought to pay me for free PR

Dare I say, Skoda! We have 2 Superb 1.8TSi DSG and bought have been trouble free for the past 2 years. Infact they have provided cheaper to run and maintain than our Toyota Altis.

Toyota has a proven track record hence patronized. We had the Qualis which was bulletproof today have the 2 Altis A/Ts and a Fortuner. All are trouble free.

VW Vento has only been around a year hence yet to prove itself but if my experience with Skoda is anything to go by I think the VW will do fine.

Worst brand: M E R C E D E S !!
I would love to make the upcoming S-class my next upgrade but the horror I have been through in the past with this brand has me left numb. They need to get the BSI packs like BMW. GTO and several others have mentioned for years that these packs are around the corner but there is yet no sign of it. Wake up MBIL !!

Last edited by Sahil : 11th October 2011 at 15:03.
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Old 13th October 2011, 12:41   #58
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Default Re: Reliability and hassle-free ownership: Perceptions of popular car brands on Team-

With a long term association with Maruti (Zen,Swift) , i could surely say there was no other company like Maruti!

But now after owning an i10 1.2 , i can say feel good factor is with Hyundai where they make us feel special !Be it in kerala or in Bangalore, hyundai service experience is awesome...

So my list goes like:

1. Hyundai
2.Maruti
3.Toyota
4.Honda
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Old 13th October 2011, 15:20   #59
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My observations are based on the country of origin. I had written a blog some time back on the same topic. If you need to know what exactly is the manufacturer looking for, watch for the warranty they offer(both on time and kms).

Irrational World: Car brands -Life time of Car

Ctrl+C Ctrl+V from my blog

The lifetime of a car is directly proportional to the country of origin
India(eg. Tata) -3 years- 60K Km
US(GM, Ford)- 5Years -100K Km
Korea (Hyundai) - 7 Yrs - 150K Km
German (BMW, Merc, VW)- 10 yrs- 200K Km
Japanese (Suzuki, Honda, Toyota) -15 yrs -300K Km
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Old 13th October 2011, 15:45   #60
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Originally Posted by Tommie View Post
My observations are based on the country of origin. I had written a blog some time back on the same topic. If you need to know what exactly is the manufacturer looking for, watch for the warranty they offer(both on time and kms).

Irrational World: Car brands -Life time of Car

Ctrl+C Ctrl+V from my blog.....
Just read the blog as well - I am not sure if the "culture rationale" is true and if so applicable. I am not sure if the Japanese have the most long term orientation though they have a long life ! On the contrary some Japanese firms have a strategy of making their own products obsolete with their own launches - think Casio in digital watches, a fair number of camera brands, maybe TVs as well.

But if you think about Europeans (Germans surely) their belief as I understand, is something of "permanent value" - think Mont Blanc, Leica camera, Swiss watches, machine components and even cars ( I think). For instance VW offers a 12 year anti-perforation warranty in Jetta (and Passat?!) - which Japanese car offers that? I recall reading a Polo ownership thread that the manual said something to the effect that "no need to change this component for 5 years". As for warranties, Jetta for instance, comes with an extended warranty of 100,000 kms for 4 years! I do not know of any Japanese car that offers more.

P.S: I have only owned Maruti and Hyundai

Cheers,
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