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Old 9th July 2015, 11:19   #421
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Default Re: Tata Sumo Gold - Refreshed Sumo!

Thank you sir for the crisp reply and focusing on the stumbling block. That 'cost' part alone could ruin the entire game and evidences are already there for few existing good products from TATA. And i do agree, for people like me, it is very easy to get impatient and disheartened while for people like you on the other side, making the things happen take much more than possibly we could even imagine. So in your earlier words, at this point of time, we can only guess and hope, albeit in a more positive manner with the hint that at least something is happening and 'could be' moving towards reality . Though i sincerely hope when that 'could be' changes into 'will surely be / is' , do drop us some more concrete hints.
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Old 9th July 2015, 13:15   #422
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Default Re: Tata Sumo Gold - Refreshed Sumo!

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
But, we cannot forget that everything will revolve around cost! This is the pitfall that must be strategically overcome, if at all anything has to happen, because India market runs on cost and cost alone.
Dear Behram-sir

Having worked in the same industry / department as yours for the past 10 years or so, I completely understand your point on cost and how such meetings go on with PPTs and Excel sheets.

I have no clear idea what you are attempting to do right now. But if you are working on the Sumo, I have a few suggestions (as a long-term fan of the vehicle) which you may consider only as requests. More importantly, they won't cost much money either. So the accountants should not frown at you!

As I am not a 4x4 / off-road enthusiast (yet), I will restrict my requests to other areas only.

Aesthetics:
I am sure I am not the only person who used to like the looks of the very first generation Sumo. It was simple and clean, though a bit crude and unfinished.

Over the years, trying to keep up with the times, I feel that Tata Motors has progressively (!) worsened the looks of the vehicle - be it the Spacio with the round headlamps, the Victa / Gold with the larger headlamp / tail lamps and I am not even mentioning the Grande / Movus here.

Can we have the first generation grill, bumper and lights combo back? May be with clear lens to keep them looking fresh? I hope those can still meet the latest CMVR (if at all it has been revised in the past many years - which I doubt).

Avoiding graphics and multi-tone paint job will improve the looks substantially (along with some masculine / Jeep-like colours - you know where I am going with this). Also, I echo your opinion on deleting the side and rear foot-steps. Keep the bumpers, door handles, mirrors and grill in black colour to avoid the 'dipped in a bucketful of paint' look.

Kindly avoid beige interiors. OEMs should have stopped offering them at least 5 years ago.

Finally, please provide a wheel-tyre combo which gives a good stance to the vehicle (bare steel wheels from existing TML parts shelf should suffice - please don't let anyone fix plastic wheel caps in the name of 'premiumness').

Even the VA-VE department chap should be happy with these - just deleting a whole lot of stuff and reusing parts from the inventory! He is going to love you for it.

A totally unpractical request with regards to looks which I am sure 99% of the people will not agree with - can we have an unbeatable combo of a tail-gate mounted spare wheel which does not cause any rattles? That alone should take the Sumo up a few notches in the SUV good looks department.

Creature comforts:

I think the top-end Sumo already comes with a decent feature-list. Please retain at least the same - rear wipe-wash and demister, power steering, power windows, internally adjustable mirrors, central locking with remote, HVAC (including rear aircon as it is a huge vehicle with large glass area). My only request for an addition will be arm rests for the front seats. I think it is a major comfort factor on long drives which is overlooked by many OEMs.

May be you can eliminate a music system and speakers and just provide the wiring for users to fix what they want.

Safety:
Since driver airbag is going to be mandatory soon, I am sure you have this in mind already. May be borrow the steering from the Safari, right? I really doubt the accountants will let you fix a passenger side airbag since it calls for an all-new dashboard design, though I really hope they do!

Also, while we still await the necessary legislation, can you please ask the friendly chaps from Bosch, Pune how much efforts will be needed to adapt the ABS from the Xenon to the Sumo? May be if you can convince the right person in TML to offer it as standard, the purchase cost might also be lower due to the higher volumes.

QC:
Although I know this is not something which can be done model-wise, before you sign off anything new, may be you can ensure that the design engineer has not left much tolerance for the component supplier or the assembly shop fellow to bring in quality issues.

Oh, and lastly, please don't let any of those marketing chaps add any fancy tags to the name (Gold, + etc). Tata Sumo is a great name. And don't let them put in any BS4 / VX / Dicor / 3.0L / CR4 decals or emblems either while you are at it.

Sincerely hope to drive your Sumo someday. All the very best!

Best Regards
Viju

Last edited by Viju : 9th July 2015 at 13:22.
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Old 9th July 2015, 13:55   #423
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Default Re: Tata Sumo Gold - Refreshed Sumo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kandisa View Post
Thank you sir for the crisp reply and focusing on the stumbling block. That 'cost' part alone could ruin the entire game and evidences are already there for few existing good products from TATA. And I do agree, for people like me, it is very easy to get impatient and disheartened while for people like you on the other side, making the things happen take much more than possibly we could even imagine. So in your earlier words, at this point of time, we can only guess and hope, albeit in a more positive manner with the hint that at least something is happening and 'could be' moving towards reality.
Dear Kandisa (and all) - thank you for your clear understanding and good reply. Now I think you will understand the meaning of all my replies!

Please remember that "we TeamBHPians" are "Auto Passionate" people. For me, automobiles is not just a job, it is my life's passion, it is my life! But please understand that there are "many other" types of guys also in this world. As a first reaction, nobody will want to sell a product and lose money, just because the product is very good! Although the product is the primary part of the business equation without which there is no business, I firmly believe that the product alone will not overrule other business considerations, at least for some time to come, at least in traditionally run organizations, at least in our country which has huge nonsensical complexities, instead of a simple and single-minded dedication to succeed!

It is very much necessary to be able to articulate the "Product-Business" equation by using the core competence of "Product-Clarity", then such a business model will succeed! Unfortunately, this core competence is in critically short supply these days. I experience this scarcity every single day!

That's why Steve Jobs is and will always remain my role model. He had it in him. The whole world knows the trials, tribulations and absolute nonsense that he had to go through in his life (poor fellow) but see the result of his passion as "The Greatest Product Engineer" who ever lived on this planet! See for yourself, that today Apple has more than enough money to buy a whole country.

It is possible, but you will have to go beyond all borders and create a "borderless" culture ("Boundary-less" is what Jack Welch called it). I had typed one more paragraph, but then I have deleted it, as I found it too explosive to include in an open forum!

Enjoy! .

Dear Viju - we posted at the same time. You were there, you know how it is dude! Thanks anyways! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 9th July 2015 at 14:01.
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Old 12th July 2015, 13:38   #424
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Default Re: Tata Sumo Gold - Refreshed Sumo!

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
One thing I noticed is your rear wiper is reverse of my Storme's, I mean your wiper is positioned to wipe right to left, mine is positioned to wipe left to right, like the front one. Any reasons?
@apachelongbow, in my opinion, the wiper positioning on the rear glass is with respect to the driver position, ie, LHD or RHD. Most adapted-for-India vehicles (originally designed for LHD) have this setup. The cars that have been designed for UK markets / RHD markets have the positioning corrected, eg, Innova, Polo, Spar, etc.

The SUMO is a desi car, but this version (GX - top end) may have been designed for the European market and subsequently brought here (possibility 1). The 2nd possibility is the lack of space to mount the wiper motor on the right side as the door hinges are there.
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Old 12th July 2015, 14:51   #425
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Default Re: Tata Sumo Gold - Refreshed Sumo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
[b]

So, I am trying to do what I can, to try and crystallize something to happen!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
In the meanwhile would you look into my request for accessories that may be available or can be procured from any vendor?

I've put in rock sliders, but would appreciate it if you could point out a source for a snorkel that will fit the giant windscreen height. We're close to finishing up the job, just waiting to get the dynamat in - an expensive affair due to the real estate inside that truck!. Its amazing how the wheelbase is slightly less than the Thar but there's a few acres of space inside. Also a few hundred thousand litres in volume thanks to the tall roof. Sumo is the apt name for this thing.

Last edited by Steeroid : 12th July 2015 at 14:56.
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Old 12th July 2015, 19:09   #426
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Default Re: Tata Sumo Gold - Refreshed Sumo!

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
.. just waiting to get the dynamat in - an expensive affair due to the real estate inside that truck!.
Steer, I had done the sound damping on my Sumo, and used about 6 large sheets of American Damping. These were the 1m x 1.3 m size - If I remember correctly. I had applied the sheet in pieces - not a complete lining, but very well covered. The pieces were applied to the inner surface of the outer metal sheet of the 4 doors & the metal section below the last windows. Had also pulled out all the seats, and applied it below the carpets. For the firewall area, I had got the dashboard dismantled, and applied the sheet to where ever I could reach.

I had not applied it inside the rear door. All work was done by self, at home, and had ran out of patience by the time I reached the rear door.

I would suggest a combination of 2mm butyl based sheets to reduce the vibration, and some of the sound /heat damping sheets (that Autotrends is offering on ebay) to absorb the sound.

Alternatively, have you thought of Tufkote water-based paint / Wuerth / 3M / similar compounds that can be sprayed in ?

Try and get the fibre piece from the Victa for the inside of wheel arches.


ps:
Currently looking out for some more sheets for our second car, but the best price I see is about 1700 per sheet for the same size as mentioned above. I am not looking at
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Old 7th September 2015, 19:18   #427
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Default Does Sumo Gold Make Sense for Me?

Just recently, on this forum, I had discussed about the need to buy a new vehicle. My Swift is aging by the day. What was once the need for a Sedan now seems to make more sense for a SUV considering I would be switching jobs and commuting nearly 50 km per day.

My budget is a max. of 8L and none of the usual favorites in terms of SUVs fit in the price range. I want:
that old-world solidity
the kind of feeling you get in the old Skodas and Quallis and even earlier Innovas
but my price puts a huge limitation.

Keeping this in mind, does buying the top-end of Sumo Gold for nearly 8L make sense?
- the design is just about okay
- I believe it is still rock solid
- am not too keen on all the gadgetry, just need power windows and great AC
- with some accessorizing expenditure, can I make something like a Sumo look good?
- does anyone have good experiences with it?
- how responsive is the power steering? am yet to take a test drive.

I know, sounds like a odd decision but fed up with car's getting scratched and bumpers get scraped all the time. Need that typical, SUV-ish solidity.
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Old 7th September 2015, 22:53   #428
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Default Re: Does Sumo Gold Make Sense for Me?

Why not an used Innova?
It's simply leagues ahead of the Sumo. You'll easily find used examples which should have incredible amount of life in them.

The car is reliable and easy to maintain. Availability of parts won't be a problem as the same engine/transmission/suspension (with minor upgrades) has been used right from 2005 till today. You could easily get parts even beyond 2020.

Even buying a well maintained Innova which has run 1,00,000 km has a lot of life left in it. I've seen many cars doing 3 to 4 lakh km easily.

Alternately try looking for a used scorpio, Xylo, Safari, Tavera
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Old 8th September 2015, 08:50   #429
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Default Re: Does Sumo Gold Make Sense for Me?

@Anubhav, having owned the Sumo earlier, the one thing I was not happy with is the stability above 100 kmph. I had the Victa TCIC, where the spare was mounted on the rear door. The spare on the Gold is mounted below, hence stability would be a little better.

Otherwise, the vehicle is very spacious, easy to drive, and very manoeuvrable in city / ghats.

I still love that styling, and often miss my Sumo.
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Old 8th September 2015, 09:44   #430
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Smile Re: Does Sumo Gold Make Sense for Me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anubhavk1980 View Post
What was once the need for a Sedan now seems to make more sense for a SUV considering I would be switching jobs and commuting nearly 50 km per day.
Thats a strange requirement. Why SUV, you can still opt for a sedan unless the roads to your office require off roading capabilities.

Sumo does not make sense absolutely considering that the genes are still the same as in the earlier models, plagued by niggles (read rattles), retain the taxi image and at the fag end of their life cycle.

For your price limitation and need of a solid built vehicle are you open to other options?
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Old 8th September 2015, 09:51   #431
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Default Re: Does Sumo Gold Make Sense for Me?

If you are open to other options, maybe Mahindra's to be launched day after TUV300 will be a good fit to your requirements.

Otherwise better to go the pre-owned route. You should get a Duster around the 8L range I assume.
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Old 8th September 2015, 10:01   #432
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Default Re: Does Sumo Gold Make Sense for Me?

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Originally Posted by anubhavk1980 View Post
Keeping this in mind, does buying the top-end of Sumo Gold for nearly 8L make sense?
Please check this and subsequent posts by the concerned member, and if necessary, PM him for further info:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3700398 (Tata Sumo Gold - Refreshed Sumo!)

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 8th September 2015, 10:35   #433
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Default Re: Does Sumo Gold Make Sense for Me?

I would not recommend the Tata sumo, instead please look at the Mahindra bolero. The bolero is more robust and better built and more reliable than the sumo. It will even earn you more resale later on down the road.
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Old 8th September 2015, 10:38   #434
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Default Re: Does Sumo Gold Make Sense for Me?

With your requirements, I'd suggest Sumo, The Movus. However, its top variant, CX, may stretch above 8 lac.

I had an opportunity to spend a day with the erstwhile Sumo Grande, a few years back. The SUV is spacious and the first and middle row of seat offered very good comfort. However, in the last row, I felt cramped and vertical movements caused due to undulating highways could be felt. May suit the shorter adults and kids though. The new improved Movus may offer something better in that department is my guess. You would do well to take a test drive along with your family and check the space and comfort on all seats.

If you're planning to keep your car in the ballpark of 1.5 to 2 lac kilometers, then the Movus is a very good option. The Tata products' cost of maintenance is well lower than the competition when looked at this figures of mileage.
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Old 8th September 2015, 11:41   #435
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Default Re: Does Sumo Gold Make Sense for Me?

Your requirement of driving 50 km per day, can be satisfied very well by a sedan as is by an SUV. In my opinion, since you would be driving mostly on the roads, a sedan fits your bill perfectly.
Please consider the following:
Q1: Do you require the extra row of seats? i.e. Would you be travelling alone or you have a group to take along frequently?
Q2: Have you taken a test drive of Sumo Gold, and what is your opinion on that?

IMHO, if you do not require the extra seats, do not spend for them. Spend on equipment instead. That means, you may choose compact SUVs like Duster / Ecosport base variants.
If you just need to travel comfortably, choose a car that is a proper upgrade of your Swift. Please take test drive of relevant cars and decide accordingly. I feel, a solid sedan would fit your bill perfectly. Consider the likes of VW Vento, Skoda Rapid, Fiat Linea, or even the Honda City, a 2-3 year old used car is likely to fit your budget well.

Sumo Gold is a 3L Diesel, which would give about half the mileage of your Swift - please consider that as well, if applicable.

Wish you good luck with your search, and once you buy the car, please update us!
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