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Old 12th October 2011, 18:27   #31
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

JKD actually very valid pointers, nope they did not set the markets on fire in their segments except with the Innova and the fortuner. And that is good as if after the poor quality interiors if entire India has still gone crazy on the Liva and the Etios then other manufacturers too would have gone on the same path.

The Liva and Etios are good but not great options and the India consumer continues to remain a hard nut to crack - thankfully.
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Old 12th October 2011, 18:27   #32
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

I'm not sure why Toyota even bothered to make 2 "new" cars for India when they already had the Yaris sedan and Hatchback that they could have launched.

Here in the US with gas prices rising, i'm seeing a lot of hatchbacks and compact cars on the road and a lot of them are the Yaris siblings along with Nissan Sentras.
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Old 12th October 2011, 21:25   #33
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

The Etios twins surely don't have the oomph factor (like the Verna or XUV 5OO). Hence they won't be able to pull the crowds at least initially (as was done by the recently launched XUV 5OO). Only time can tell about the reliability of these cars. If they prove on that front, then surely they will have the demand from the market.

I was looking keenly at the Etios D as my next upgrade. However till date I have not been able even to make up my mind for the Test Drive, leave aside buying the car (the centrally mounted instrument cluster, single wiper, seats without adjustable head rests, not helping the cause. In sharp contrast to this I took my whole family (parents, wife, daughter) for the test drive of the Verna, exactly on the 4th day from its launch, though I didn't intend to purchase it so early.
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Old 12th October 2011, 22:50   #34
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
In any case, picture abhi baaki hai mere dost?!

P.S.: Away from melodrama, coming back to the thread query, Toyota diesels haven't shaken the market, not yet. But have surely shaken up well-groomed aesthetic sensibilities of lotsa folks around here!
Really? You mean few years down the road people will be queueing up to buy these ugly twins? I don't think so. Have you seen the onslaught of new models lately? It's like a blitzkrieg. Cars are fast becoming like mobile phones. A new one breaks cover every two months and old ones are forgotten. Before even you see one on the road, a newer model arrives on the scene. And to think people will remember this duo a few years hence. Many have already forgotten 'em and are looking forward to newer sleeker exciting models.
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Old 13th October 2011, 10:42   #35
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

I think the petrol model sales of Etios will also dwindle once Sunny starts appearing on the roads. Sunny's one beauty of a car. Waiting for its diesel launch. Infact, I feel that Tata has made the right move by slashing Manza price by 45K in wake of imminent diesel launch of Sunny
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Old 13th October 2011, 12:24   #36
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Originally Posted by hvs View Post
I think the petrol model sales of Etios will also dwindle once Sunny starts appearing on the roads. Sunny's one beauty of a car. Waiting for its diesel launch. Infact, I feel that Tata has made the right move by slashing Manza price by 45K in wake of imminent diesel launch of Sunny
Not sure what could be the base of your praises for Sunny, but here is one an article on the cars occupying the bottom pack in US (Bottom of the Barrel - Page 2 - MSN Autos). Coincidently, US Versa (Sunny in India) gets the better petrol engine as compared to Indian model. I understand that 1.5L diesel (from Renault, Nissan) has sold more (units) in India as compared to the 1.4L diesel from Toyota, but, at present Toyota have edge in terms of service network.
Overall Sunny Diesel will spell good time for Indian customers with over 10 Diesel engined cars options under Rs.10 Lacs range.
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Old 13th October 2011, 12:57   #37
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
Not sure what could be the base of your praises for Sunny..........,
...........Overall Sunny Diesel will spell good time for Indian customers with over 10 Diesel engined cars options under Rs.10 Lacs range.
Great looks (I like them more than DZire, Manza, Etios, Fiesta C, etc) & good engine,
And I completely agree to your last line...
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Old 13th October 2011, 13:01   #38
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Really? You mean few years down the road people will be queueing up to buy these ugly twins? I don't think so. Have you seen the onslaught of new models lately? It's like a blitzkrieg. Cars are fast becoming like mobile phones. A new one breaks cover every two months and old ones are forgotten. Before even you see one on the road, a newer model arrives on the scene. And to think people will remember this duo a few years hence. Many have already forgotten 'em and are looking forward to newer sleeker exciting models.
Well that is true to some extent in the current market. But what Radiantkarma meant to say was that once people are assured that the cars are as dependable as any other Toyota product then they will start buying it. This is true. Why do you feel Dzire still has a waiting period? Only reason it sells is because people consider it a reliable and cheap to maintain. Etios any day looks better then Dzire and interiors are surely comparable. All the extra space combined with the Toyota badge may work finally.
Ofcourse in case the initial batch of cars being sold right now do turn out to be anything other then reliable then T badge or no badge the car will fail.

Another thing to note here is that in the coming months I don't think that any car will see numbers of more then 5-6k. I am saying this because of the non stop launches from various car makers, easily available loans and the ever increasing ambitious values of us Indians. The numbers are bound to get divided between various cars for example a buyer wanting to spend 6-7L on a new car has so many options today- right from the hatchbacks to entry level sedans to the base models of almost all C segment cars. This is in sheer contrast to when Dzire was launched.
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Old 13th October 2011, 13:32   #39
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

My 2 cents:
The biggest blockbusters which Toyota had- Qualis/Innova and Fortuner.

These segments did not really have a segment king to dethrone. Toyota came up with ugly but build to last no frills vehicle and rules the segment.

Did anyone notice one thing?
Qualis/Innova should thank taxi segment for the resounding success it got.

Fortuner?
Well you cannot really call it a mass vehicle. It sells well but of course in the higher segment.

Now Toyota thought that we will go for the same strategy and enter the small car and sedan segment of Indian market.

And out went the order: "Designers please make us some odd looking bare bones but build to last car."
But hello, Taxi operators are happy with Indica/Logan.

Needless to say, the move backfired.
This segment has some very VFM and well established players.
i10, Brio(coming soon), Swift, Mirca, Ritz and so on.

Sorry to say but Toyota came naked to a 7 course french dinner.

Changing the looks of Etios and Liva will not be cheap. But at least they can up the interiors. At the very least they can get rid of the benches they have put in the name of seats.
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Old 13th October 2011, 13:38   #40
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post one-liners that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the overall quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further.

Last edited by GTO : 14th October 2011 at 16:05.
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Old 13th October 2011, 13:51   #41
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

Recently I had got a call from one of the Toyota dealerships in Bangalore asking me to take a look at their Etios / Liva. The showroom guys were hell bent on bringing the car/s for a TD to my residence.
They first asked me which car I drive and went on to compare Etios and Liva to my current car. I strernly told them that I was not interested to look at their bare beans offering.
On hearing that they asked me if some of my friends / relatives were looking for a "Diesel" car and promised "immediate delivery". As expected, I did not make any referrals.

Last edited by MCR : 13th October 2011 at 13:52.
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Old 13th October 2011, 16:00   #42
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

Two passionate sides will not agree - both of them often ignoring reason. Dunno where this is heading. Still feel like further sharing my perspective on Etios in a petrolhead's language - two passionate sides will not stop either!

It would be a pity if an otherwise BRILLIANT package from Toyota does not do well just because of looks or a few missing knick-knacks. Forget Toyota reliability, the car has solid fundamentals its extremely user-friendly, offers comfort, effortless driveability and immense practical value.

But one has to look beneath the skin to appreciate the true character! Obviously, the vehicle isn't for everyone. Welcome to the real world of Toyota Function over Form, low on style and niggardly in features. Look elsewhere, if you are looking for style, snob quotient, or if the number of features determines what is VFM. Looking for a warm and friendly car? Welcome aboard.

Going into the details of Etios - you get excellent driveability with negligible turbo lag, linear power delivery & good low-end torque, light and precise controls, spot-on ergonomics, short-turning radius, mature ride quality, composed handling, adequate ground clearance, seating comfort, superb space management all over including cubby holes & glove box, above-par fit & finish, good chassis, class-leading FE... In fact, there is hardly a design aspect that can be placed as a significant negative as far as functionality is concerned.

With such fundamentals and space on offer, if Etios was shod with upmarket clothing and a few knick-knacks, would it not be priced in the segment of Vento/Verna instead?!
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Old 13th October 2011, 16:09   #43
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

I have always been saying that toyotas make overpriced cars, be it the liva or the innova or the fortuner. In this very forum, members have told me that its the price you pay for reliability & brand image.

Suddenly, they are feeling the reliable brand makes overpriced cars. Reasons?

1) For the price you pay for liva & etios, the car was very cheaply built & fragile wit lost of cost cutting measures.

2) the launch of XUV500.

I just dont understand how people pay 14 lakhs for an absolute basic MUV like innova & 25 lakhs to an innova on stilts? Its true even I have an innova, I paid 13 lakhs for it (5 years back) & I am disappointed with it. Not that the car is giving any issues as such but it is not value for money. I feel in that range, our homegrown products are much better.

Coming to the topic, what is so good about their diesel engines? Innova's D-4D is not as refined as Scorpio's mHawk, not as fuel efficient, not as powerful or torquey nor as resposnive, still we pay more!

TOYOTA is looting Indians.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 13th October 2011 at 16:11.
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Old 13th October 2011, 16:10   #44
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Two passionate sides will not agree - both of them often ignoring reason. Dunno where this is heading. Still feel like further sharing my perspective on Etios in a petrolhead's language - two passionate sides will not stop either!
Well Said !

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Going into the details of Etios - you get excellent driveability with negligible turbo lag, linear power delivery & good low-end torque, light and precise controls, spot-on ergonomics, short-turning radius, mature ride quality, composed handling, adequate ground clearance, seating comfort, superb space management all over including cubby holes & glove box, above-par fit & finish, good chassis, class-leading FE... In fact, there is hardly a design aspect that can be placed as a significant negative as far as functionality is concerned.

With such fundamentals and space on offer, if Etios was shod with upmarket clothing and a few knick-knacks, would it not be priced in the segment of Vento/Verna instead?!
Really ? Compare it to the other leading vehicles in its class -

Manza - Way more roomy, as good an engine if not better (1.3 MJD), much better fit and finish, better looking, better seating comfort. Doesn't scream cheap from all angles as soon as you get inside the car. Only disadvantage - Tata Badge.

DZire - Cheaper to maintain, Maruti badge, bigger boot, wider Service network (any B/C category town will also have a A.S.S.), more features. Only disadvantage - cramped rear.

As some one said in the forum - when you are spending 5L+ of your hard earned money, you should get a Feel-Good factor as you step inside. Sadly, Etios/Liva fail miserably in this. Stealing words from another member, "Toyota has made a brilliant 6L Bajaj scooter and not a car " And forget about this beating Verna/Vento. They are much more polished in design as well as feel, not to mention much better engines. Only place it would have competed is against Sunny, which i predict will annihilate Etios once the diesel variant is out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post

I just dont understand how people pay 14 lakhs for an absolute basic MUV like innova & 25 lakhs to an innova on stilts? Its true even I have an innova, I paid 13 lakhs for it (5 years back) & I am disappointed with it. Not that the car is giving any issues as such but it is not value for money. I feel in that range, our homegrown products are much better.

TOYOTA is looting Indians.
Dont agree. For a MUV, Innova is still the best option. Xylo looks hideous and doesnt ride as well as Innova.

Last edited by ethanhunt123 : 13th October 2011 at 16:14.
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Old 13th October 2011, 17:02   #45
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
Compare it to the other leading vehicles in its class -
Manza - Way more...
Great product indeed. Did I earlier say "Forget Toyota reliability"? Time to recall expectations of reliability and hassle-free ownership! Also, "much better fit and finish"?! But let's agree to disagree on this one and not stir up another debate.

Quote:
DZire - bigger boot
Superb car this DZire has been. But of course, you're joking about the boot!

Quote:
DZire -wider Service network (any B/C category town will also have a A.S.S.),
Absolutely. But only a matter of time before others catch up - the way Hyundai has already significantly neutralized this disadvantage.

Quote:
DZire - Only disadvantage - cramped rear.
And ride quality? Fit & Finish? Turbo lag?!!!!

Quote:
DZire - more features.

As some one said in the forum - when you are spending 5L+ of your hard earned money, you should get a Feel-Good factor as you step inside. Sadly,
I've already said, Etios is not for everybody. Thanks to competition, there is something for everyone. Just no need please to bash up another good product without knowing the facts just because it does not give you feel-good factor!

And finally
Quote:
Well Said !
Thanks!

Last edited by RadiantKarma : 13th October 2011 at 17:07.
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