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Old 13th October 2011, 17:10   #46
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Great product indeed. Did I earlier say "Forget Toyota reliability"? Time to recall expectations of reliability and hassle-free ownership! Also, "much better fit and finish"?! But let's agree to disagree on this one and not stir up another debate.
Stories of water leaking inside the Etios due to lack of rubber beading on doors, low FE numbers etc - do these show Toyota reliability & peace of mind?


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Superb car this DZire has been. But of course, you're joking about the boot!

Absolutely. But only a matter of time before others catch up - the way Hyundai has already significantly neutralized this disadvantage. And ride quality? Fit & Finish? Turbo lag?!!!!
Not at all joking about the boot ! A lot of people crib about Swift/Brio saying too small boot ! and boot space means more practical !

Fit & Finish no way Dzire is below Etios, it looks and feels much better. Turbo lag in national engine ? Now you must be joking
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Old 13th October 2011, 17:19   #47
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

[quote=ethanhunt123;2543375]Stories of water leaking inside the Etios due to lack of rubber beading on doors, low FE numbers etc - do these show Toyota reliability & peace of mind?

I dont think any of the Etios owners on this forum including me has faced this issue. I am from Pune and travel often to mumbai which definetly has torrential rains. Never faced any amout of water leakage.
'Poor Mileage' - mileage as we all know is a combination of multiple factors. I have driven 9000 km in my Etios (p) and i get 13-14 in a mix of 80 % city and 20 % highway driving with 100 % AC ON. This according to me might not be earth shattering but definetly par for the course for a 1.5 litre engine.
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Old 13th October 2011, 17:20   #48
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
Dont agree. For a MUV, Innova is still the best option. Xylo looks hideous and doesnt ride as well as Innova.
Well, I would pick the XUV or Aria over the innova anyday.
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Old 13th October 2011, 17:28   #49
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Well, I would pick the XUV or Aria over the innova anyday.
XUV would not seat 7/8 in comfort and Aria is one segment above, so hardly competiton.
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Old 13th October 2011, 17:28   #50
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
Stories of water leaking inside the Etios due to lack of rubber beading on doors - do these show Toyota reliability & peace of mind?
Obviously you haven't been following the forum enough on Etios, and still not sparing it! Please do check your facts from authentic sources first.

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Not at all joking about the boot ! A lot of people crib about Swift/Brio saying too small boot !
Mate, you were comparing DZire boot with that of the ETIOS!

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Fit & Finish no way Dzire is below Etios, it looks and feels much better.
We agree to disagree again on the same matter!

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Turbo lag in national engine ? Now you must be joking
Sure, the national engine cannot have turbo lag! What do I say now?! I am speechless! OK, I'll let team-bhp's official statement on DZire say something about it
Quote:
Owners report that marginal turbo-lag is its Achilles’ heel,..

Last edited by RadiantKarma : 13th October 2011 at 17:34.
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Old 13th October 2011, 17:39   #51
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

What is up with all this hoopla around the XUV making the Innova and Fortuner look like stripped down variants, a loot by Toyota and predictions of XUV eating up the whole Indian automotive industry. Seriously??

If it was that easy for any car with just added gadgets and a decent price tag then The hyundai cars would have till now cannibalized all of the Indian car industry. The new Verna has features which were unknown to atleast me like the rear view cam integrated inside the rear view mirror. Its loaded with goodies, looks awesome. So going by that logic people will not buy any other car starting from 10L to 20L.

Similarly all that talk of fortuner seeing a decline in its numbers doesn't make sense. The Aria too is loaded. Yeti is loaded. Hyundai Santa FE, Ford endy and Chevy captiva are all loaded with gadgets and many of these offer a much better driving pleasure, seating comfort then the fortuner. Best part being barring the Santa FE ( which also is pretty close) all the cars are cheaper then the Fortuner. Still they are not even matching fortuner numbers collectively. So what will the XUV do to shake things up for the TOFU? People buy the fortuner for its Busch looks which the XUV totally lacks. It looks horrendous and is being praised only after the price was announced. People buy the fortuner for the T badge which is something again Mahindra is not going to match ( Yes I am patriotic but also practical).

Innova doesn't sell because of its looks or gadgets or driving pleasure. It just sells because of the sheer amount of space and more precisely comfort on those long journeys. The zero niggles with most of the cars and low maintenance just adds to the package. I don't see XUV matching it on any of those fronts. And for those who were looking for some excitement in there car, Innova was never in there list. They probably bought safari and Scorpio, the 2 cars which I feel will bear the maximum brunt from the XUV launch.

Last but not the least please don't mention water seepage issues and clutch failures in Etios and Liva. All the reports have been from outside sources and Mr munish who started this whole thing has never bothered to reply on TBHP even after becoming a member and repeated requests. So unless some member from the forum who owns any of these cars faces such an issue we cant attribute these to the cars. Till now all the members I have talked to have not had any of these so called issues.

Last edited by drmohitg : 13th October 2011 at 17:44.
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Old 13th October 2011, 17:42   #52
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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123
XUV would not seat 7/8 in comfort and Aria is one segment above, so hardly competiton.
Test drove the XUV yesterday and agree that it might not be the exact competitor to the Innova. Specifically the 3rd row seating in the XUV is strictly children-only !! But it's definitely bang for the buck at that price.

But we all have to agree that Toyota has been ripping us all off by overpricing it and keeping an artificial waiting period of 3-4 months ever since it was launched. Hopefully this will end in early-2012 when when Suzuki & Nissan launch their their MPVs.
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Old 13th October 2011, 17:57   #53
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Obviously you haven't been following the forum enough on Etios, and still not sparing it! Please do check your facts from authentic sources first.
No need to be patronizing sir, please define "authentic" sources ! If you look around the forum, you WILL find quite a few people talking about missing rubber leading to water leaks.

And i am equally interested in knowing who would be the "authentic" sources for Skoda/Fiat ? Would it be Harish/LBM and a few others who had a bad experience ? Or the other set of people who are very happy with their Laura's, Superb's & Fabia's and have nothing but words of praise for Skoda ?

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Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Mate, you were comparing DZire boot with that of the ETIOS!
Comment withdrawn, my bad

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Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Sure, the national engine cannot have turbo lag! What do I say now?! I am speechless! OK, I'll let team-bhp's official statement on DZire say something about it
Have you driven the Dzire? "Minimal Turbo lag" is the word. Lets read the entire statement by TBHP -

"Diesel power comes in the form of a fantastic Fiat 1.3 liter 75 BHP powerplant, that is quick as well as fuel-efficient. The torque delivery (190 NM @ 2,000 rpm) is addictive and makes the diesel Dzire more fun to drive than the petrol! Owners report that marginal turbo-lag is its Achilles’ heel, but one can get used to driving around it."

Dzire diesel is much more fun to drive than the old D4-D in Etios, especially out on the higway !
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Old 13th October 2011, 18:13   #54
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
No need to be patronizing sir, please define "authentic" sources ! If you look around the forum, you WILL find quite a few people talking about missing rubber leading to water leaks.
drmohitg has already explained on this very thread. And my apologies if I sounded patronizing! Passions sometime fly!

Quote:
Comment withdrawn, my bad
Thanks. Gesture appreciated!

Quote:
Lets read the entire statement by TBHP -

"Diesel power comes in the form of a fantastic Fiat 1.3 liter 75 BHP powerplant, that is quick as well as fuel-efficient. The torque delivery (190 NM @ 2,000 rpm) is addictive and makes the diesel Dzire more fun to drive than the petrol! Owners report that marginal turbo-lag is its Achilles’ heel, but one can get used to driving around it."
It's again all about comparison between the two.

I'd suggest you to go through the section on engine performance of official test drive of Etios D and arrive at your own judgement about turbo lag and driveability aspect. Probably better way than this engaging discussion!

Last edited by RadiantKarma : 13th October 2011 at 18:37.
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Old 13th October 2011, 18:26   #55
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

I haven't driven an Etios or a Liva. But I recently did a road trip with a Toyota manager who is looking after many thing including potential launch of Lexus.

His honest feedback: since Etios and Liva were built to a price, there were compromises. But Toyota is making sure that the compromises - if any - are in areas that are easily fixed, and NOT in core areas such as drivetrain, engine, basic reliability etc. In fact, apparently Toyota has basic criteria (KPIs) that need to be met for use of Toyota brand instead of Daihatsu brand (that have less stringent KPIs - key performance indicators). The Toyota brand specs are more stringent as far as 'core' stuff is concerned. And Toyota is patient enough to work with and coach vendors whose short term quality performance is not upto the mark (I had asked him directly: 'Does Toyota fire local vendors and look for an alternative if mass production parts quality is not satisfactory?")

Last edited by nilanjanray : 13th October 2011 at 18:31.
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Old 13th October 2011, 19:28   #56
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

Etios/Liva diesels and innova will continue to be a huge hit with the taxi/fleet buyers.
Even if individual buyers will have other options. So, the sales wont be a dud.
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Old 13th October 2011, 19:36   #57
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
The Toyota brand specs are more stringent as far as 'core' stuff is concerned.
This thing is easily overlooked by the Indian 'horde' mentality more interested in the 'bling' factor. See the 90K odd bookings that the 'horde' mentality got for the New Swift without even seeing or test driving the vehicle...
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Old 13th October 2011, 19:53   #58
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Welcome to the real world of Toyota – Function over Form, low on style and niggardly in features. Look elsewhere, if you are looking for style, snob quotient, or if the number of features determines what is VFM. Looking for a warm and friendly car? Welcome aboard.
Sorry to disagree here. Is Etios the real world of Toyota. IMHO, the real world of Toyota (outside India) comprises of cars like Yaris, Corolla, Camry, Fortuner etc. - quality and fuss-free products, which can go on and on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantKarma
Going into the details of Etios - you get excellent driveability with negligible turbo lag, linear power delivery & good low-end torque, light and precise controls, spot-on ergonomics, short-turning radius, mature ride quality, composed handling, adequate ground clearance, seating comfort, superb space management all over including cubby holes & glove box, above-par fit & finish, good chassis, class-leading FE... In fact, there is hardly a design aspect that can be placed as a significant negative as far as functionality is concerned.
Agreed on the points, but I am surprised that safety features does not figure in the list above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantKarma
With such fundamentals and space on offer, if Etios was shod with upmarket clothing and a few knick-knacks, would it not be priced in the segment of Vento/Verna instead?!
That should have been the Vios, and with the brand recognition they have in India, it would have really worked in the C-segment (in both petrol and diesel).

I feel Toyota should have been better off in this segment if they got the Yaris and Vios to the Indian market instead of the Liva/Etios. It should have been a quality competition in B+ segment and C segment respectively. Instead they decided to get something India specific. Reason mentioned: Yaris is an expensive car, and is not meant for India. I still cannot digest that reasoning
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Old 13th October 2011, 20:36   #59
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

There are plenty of established players in the segment that Etios/Liva entered. It takes time to shift loyalties.

In case of Qualis, Altis, Innova and Fortuner, there was not much competition, so every one just lapped up what was offered.

The lower the segment the more cost conscious the customer -
. Initial cost of purchase
. Fuel Efficiency
. Maintenance Costs

MUL cars have proven track record in all the three, hence they sell. Hyundai must be off some where, hence they lag behind.

For Toyota it has been a double whammy. On one hand every one expected the same quality as Innova, Altis and Fortuner, and on other hand they had to reduce price. Had it been other manufacturer, the quality of current Etios/Liva would not have generated any comments, but with all the expectations, people just did not perceive the "Toyota Quality" they were expecting in these products.

Any way with MUL products getting 20k/month and Hyundai 10K/month, 6-7K/month is not bad. It may improve at a later stage, whether at the cost of others is yet to be seen.
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Old 13th October 2011, 20:54   #60
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Default re: The Toyota Diesels (Etios / Liva / Altis) didn't shake the market, did they?

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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
"Toyota has made a brilliant 6L Bajaj scooter and not a car "
Quote of the day..!!!
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