Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th January 2012, 15:53   #391
BHPian
 
ilangop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pune/Neyveli
Posts: 884
Thanked: 515 Times
Default Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet_Rider View Post
The carb detailed in the 118 NE service manual is Hitachi. For details on the Mikuni carb, please check the following post on page 15 of this thread. Those pages are from the Maruti Zen (MH410) workshop manual.


-Thank you. Just asked for calrification. I got the service manual for Suzuki Alto in which the Mikuni version has been detailed elaborately.

There is no mention of this in the service manual. Probably the manual that we have must be an old version.

-Quite possible

The thermostat mentioned in the service manual ...

- Boss I was asking about the thermistor (The sensor that senses temperature)

Are you referring the PCV valve mentioned on pages 15 and 16 of the Fuel, Exhaust and Emission Control Systems section? Please post a picture about the same so that I can check.

- No dude, please look into this picture.
A12 exhaust manifold : Datsun 1200 Club
Hope you can locate a spring loaded flap. Wanted to know the function of this flap.
Hi Rahul,
Thanks for the immediate response. My replies in bold
Attached Images
 
ilangop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2012, 10:12   #392
BHPian
 
Scarlet_Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 551
Thanked: 396 Times
Default Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilangop View Post
I was asking about the thermistor (The sensor that senses temperature)
I checked the cooling system and electrical system sections in the manual but there was no value mentioned for the thermistor. Will check the manual again in detail later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KkVaidya View Post
I don't know exactly but it is something related to hot air being fed to the engine for quick warm-up. Something like a quick warm-up valve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilangop View Post
Hope you can locate a spring loaded flap. Wanted to know the function of this flap.
In the manual, there is a diagram and a short description of the exhaust manifold. It just says that this system is to ensure stable and smooth running of the engine when it is cold.

This system is also described in the Automobile Driver's Manual (pictures of the book below from one of my older posts). When the engine is cold, the flap directs the hot exhaust towards the part of the cold intake manifold. This is to get the engine up to running temperature faster. Once the engine warms up, the flap moves to a postion where the hot exhaust is not directed towards the intake manifold. Will post pictures from service manual and the other book later.

Regards and Keep Revving,

Rahul Waghmare.
Attached Thumbnails
The Premier 118 NE thread-r1.jpg  

The Premier 118 NE thread-r2.jpg  

Scarlet_Rider is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2012, 10:29   #393
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 25
Thanked: 0 Times
Unhappy Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

Hi Dear friends,

I am facing a starting problem with my 1996 NE. the deal is that the water pump was spoilt (engine was overheating), so i bought a new Mikoni water pump from JC road and got it fixed. the mechanic charged about 500 bucks for fixing it, the pump itself costed 600 bucks. now even though the battery is pretty charged up, the car doesnt start, only cranks meekly. Two things i ask from you all :

1. is this a battery problem? Because the horn blows pretty hard & the headlights are strong enough (so battery must be good), but it seems the battery is not enough to crank up the car. Is this possible?

2. Secondly, the fan in front of the engine (the faded red fan), should it be tight? I mean should it be free enough to be rotated by the hand? Because the fan seems pretty tight, and i was wondering if this tightness has got anything to do with the engine starting, you know like the battery getting strained to rotate the fan? My uncle told me that the starting of the car has nothing to do with the rotation of the fan.

I seek your experiental advise/wisdom on this folks. Please let me know.

Regards,
AJ
AJ118NE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2012, 14:22   #394
BHPian
 
ilangop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pune/Neyveli
Posts: 884
Thanked: 515 Times
Default Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ118NE View Post
I am facing a starting problem with my 1996 NE. the deal is that the water pump was spoilt (engine was overheating)....

Two things i ask from you all :

1. is this a battery problem? Because the horn blows pretty hard & the headlights are strong enough (so battery must be good), but it seems the battery is not enough to crank up the car. Is this possible?

2. Secondly, the fan in front of the engine (the faded red fan), should it be tight? I mean should it be free enough to be rotated by the hand? Because the fan seems pretty tight, and i was wondering if this tightness has got anything to do with the engine starting, you know like the battery getting strained to rotate the fan? My uncle told me that the starting of the car has nothing to do with the rotation of the fan.
Did the over heating problem get resolved with a new water pump? Do you see oil inside the radiator cap.
1. How old is the battery? When was the car lastly used? Is the right sized battery plonked in?
2. If the fan belt is tight, the fan should be very hard to be rotated by hand. But this has nothing to do with starting.
I should first ask you about the nature of the problem - if the engine crank cranks & doesnt start or else the engine doesnt crank at all?

Fuel or spark should be the culprit. Since yours being a 1996 118NE, your should be having an electric fuel pump. Trun the ign key to ON position and check if you can hear the sound of the fuel pump from somwhere near the boot. Need your inputs for further diagnosis.

Last edited by ilangop : 30th January 2012 at 14:24.
ilangop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2012, 16:13   #395
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 25
Thanked: 0 Times
Post Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilangop View Post
Did the over heating problem get resolved with a new water pump? Do you see oil inside the radiator cap.
1. How old is the battery? When was the car lastly used? Is the right sized battery plonked in?
2. If the fan belt is tight, the fan should be very hard to be rotated by hand. But this has nothing to do with starting.
I should first ask you about the nature of the problem - if the engine crank cranks & doesnt start or else the engine doesnt crank at all?

Fuel or spark should be the culprit. Since yours being a 1996 118NE, your should be having an electric fuel pump. Trun the ign key to ON position and check if you can hear the sound of the fuel pump from somwhere near the boot. Need your inputs for further diagnosis.
Hi Ilangop.. first, thanks. Now to your questions..

1. The heating problems was pretty much solved after the water pump was installed. I didnt notice any oil. The car was lastly used 3 days back. the battery is old i must say, but not very old - & it is of the right size.

2. You are very right in saying that the fan is very tight & hard to move with hand. Is it supposed to be this way? The engine does crank, but very meekly. Then dies out. You would say that the battery is bad, but then i wonder how is the battery good enough for a blaring horn and bright headlights?

3. you are again right, i have an electric pump and when i turn the ignition on, i can hear a light humming of the pump at the backside of the boot.

So i am not sure if this is a battery problem or a spark plug problem. The fan is dam tight, cannot easily move with the hand. But like you & my uncle said, the fan tightness has nothing to do with starting. The cranking is meek. But the horn, headlights are as expected, they don't show signs of battery being low/weak.

Thanks Again Ilangop.

AJ
AJ118NE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2012, 16:49   #396
BHPian
 
ilangop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pune/Neyveli
Posts: 884
Thanked: 515 Times
Default Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ118NE View Post
Hi Ilangop.. first, thanks. Now to your questions..

1. The heating problems was pretty much solved after the water pump was installed. I didnt notice any oil. The car was lastly used 3 days back. the battery is old i must say, but not very old - & it is of the right size.

2. You are very right in saying that the fan is very tight & hard to move with hand. Is it supposed to be this way? The engine does crank, but very meekly. Then dies out. You would say that the battery is bad, but then i wonder how is the battery good enough for a blaring horn and bright headlights?

3. you are again right, i have an electric pump and when i turn the ignition on, i can hear a light humming of the pump at the backside of the boot.

So i am not sure if this is a battery problem or a spark plug problem. The fan is dam tight, cannot easily move with the hand. But like you & my uncle said, the fan tightness has nothing to do with starting. The cranking is meek. But the horn, headlights are as expected, they don't show signs of battery being low/weak.

Thanks Again Ilangop.

AJ
Thanks for your inputs. Yes the fan is hard to turn by hand if the belt is in good knick. Are you sure that the spark timing & valve timing are in order.
Here are some more questions here.
1. Is the cranking process taking place in a slower speed like in a broken down battery?
2. Does it seem like the engine comes to life while you crank but the firing wouldnt sustain? In this case do check if the wires to the ignition coil and ballast resistor are intact. Bewarned, the ballast resistor might be hot if key is left turned ON for some time.
3. Remove one of the spark plug leads and attach a spark plug to it and check for a spark as you crank.
ilangop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2012, 17:28   #397
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 25
Thanked: 0 Times
Thumbs up Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilangop View Post
Thanks for your inputs. Yes the fan is hard to turn by hand if the belt is in good knick. Are you sure that the spark timing & valve timing are in order.
Here are some more questions here.
1. Is the cranking process taking place in a slower speed like in a broken down battery?
2. Does it seem like the engine comes to life while you crank but the firing wouldnt sustain? In this case do check if the wires to the ignition coil and ballast resistor are intact. Bewarned, the ballast resistor might be hot if key is left turned ON for some time.
3. Remove one of the spark plug leads and attach a spark plug to it and check for a spark as you crank.
Thanks Ilangop ,

1. The cranking process does take place in a slower speed like in a broken down battery. True, battery gives up in 2-3 seconds.
2. Engine coming to life and not starting has happened, but predominantly it is the cranking not happening long enough to bring life to the engine.
3. So should i remove the spark plug and check stuff? Or simply just remove the battery, give it to the mechanic & get it charged for 24 hours and then assess the situation?
AJ118NE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2012, 18:06   #398
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 494
Thanked: 168 Times
Default Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

^^ To me it looks like an issue with the battery. Please get it charged or replace.

Is it possible to try battery from some other car for test purpose before you actually charge/purchase a new one?
ObsessedByFIAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 19:09   #399
BHPian
 
KkVaidya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 587
Thanked: 202 Times
Default Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ118NE View Post
Or simply just remove the battery, give it to the mechanic & get it charged for 24 hours and then assess the situation?
I feel its a battery problem. The starter takes the most juice - the horn & lights do not take as much load as the starter. Best is get your battery electrolyte specific gravity checked at any battery dealer.
KkVaidya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2012, 12:27   #400
BHPian
 
Scarlet_Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 551
Thanked: 396 Times
Post Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

Hi Folks!

There was a DHAA car and bike event in Hyderabad on 26th January 2012. A Standard Companion was present at the event. It had a maroon shade that is lighter than the original maroon shade that came on the NE. I felt that even this lighter shade would look great on the NE. Here are a couple of pictures of the Standard Companion. Can someone try to photoshop this shade on a NE picture? Let's see how it looks.

Regards and Keep Revving,

Rahul Waghmare.

PS : For more pictures of the DHAA car and bike event check out this thread : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ry-2012-a.html (Deccan Heritage Automobile Association (DHAA) Republic Day Meet - 26th January 2012)
Attached Thumbnails
The Premier 118 NE thread-s1.jpg  

The Premier 118 NE thread-s2.jpg  

Scarlet_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2012, 09:15   #401
BHPian
 
ilangop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pune/Neyveli
Posts: 884
Thanked: 515 Times
Default Wiring Diagram

Hi Rahul,
I am looking at installing a relay for the AC control unit & one more for the other devices powered by key On. While trying to decipher the wiring diagram I found that the owner's manual I have, doesnt show up a brown wire that is found in the ign switch. Also the manual I have is for a Mechanical fuel pump type vehicle, while mine is one with Electric fuel pump. It would be nice if you could throw some light into this issue. Also please share the ratnigs of the relay used in your car. Thank you. Attached the picture of the wiring diagram that I have referred to.
-Ilango
Attached Thumbnails
The Premier 118 NE thread-premier_118ne-069.jpg  

ilangop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2012, 15:54   #402
BHPian
 
Scarlet_Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 551
Thanked: 396 Times
Default Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

Here are the pictures of the relay that we have used. The unit (shown in the last picture) has two relays inside, each with a fuse of rating 30 Amps. Hence you can safely connect loads with rating of 25 Amps per relay. Another point to note is that if you are going for a PMP relay, the one with 6 terminals is better than the one with 5 terminals.

Will have to check the wiring details some time later due to my other personal commitments at present.

Regards and Keep Revving,

Rahul Waghmare.

The Premier 118 NE thread-p1.jpg

The Premier 118 NE thread-p2.jpg

Name:  P3.JPG
Views: 1813
Size:  39.6 KB
Scarlet_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2012, 10:23   #403
BHPian
 
KkVaidya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 587
Thanked: 202 Times
Default Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

PROJECT: VAPOUR LOCK

Dear All,
At last I have been successful in eliminating the vapour lock problem rampant in Pre-91 models of 118NE. As per guidance from the great, Mr. Behram Dhabhar (we should have a separate thread for his help to us BHPians) i have implemented the procedures required for eliminating this problem. Below is the summary along with a few pictures depicting the project.
Parts required:
1. Pierburg Vapour Separators - 2 Nos.
2. UCAL Electric Fuel Pump
3. Fuel Filter
4. Fuel pipe (good quality): 20 feet

Process:
First thing to be done (and the most tedious & dangerous) is to make 2 holes atop the fuel tank for the return lines. It will need to metal pipes to be brazed for attaching the fuel return pipe (see picture for more details). Please be very careful as even after washing and flushing the fuel tank, there was a minor boom when the weld torch was worked on the top first time.
Once that is done, the fuel pump will have to be mounted on the wheel arch. Attach a fuel filter prior to the pump. The outlet pipe from the pump goes to the inlet of the vapour separator. The outlet from the separator goes straight towards the carburetor at front. The return line on top of the separator goes back to the fuel tank.
Now coming to the front, disconnect the mechanical fuel pump by removing the inlet and outlet pipes. Connect the inlet pipe coming from the rear to another vapour separator at the carburetor. The outlet from that separator goes straight to the inlet of the carb. The return on top of the separator again goes to the rear vent hole atop the fuel tank.
Connect the red wire of the fuel pump to the ignition switch and the black wire to earth.
Start the ignition and You are ready to go >>
Pl. make sure that you take care of below points:
1. That there is no spark at the earthing wire of the fuel pump. This is really dangerous as even a minor leak from the fuel pipe will make a bomb (literally) of the fuel tank.
2. Make sure good quality rubber hoses are used along with fastening clips to avoid any leakage. Periodic check is a necessary.
3. The Pierburg separator has a tendency to leak - check it after you plug in. I had to buy another separator for a cracked one. The new one I got started to leak from the top, which i fixed with Araldite.

I still have to take my car for a test ride out in the 44degree Ahmedabad sun. I took a brief drive at night and it works fine only for the tick-tick noise from the electric pump.
Credit again to the Sir Behram Dhabhar for all his help and support
Attached Thumbnails
The Premier 118 NE thread-piping-near-carb.jpg  

The Premier 118 NE thread-ucal-pump.jpg  

The Premier 118 NE thread-vent-holes-tank.jpg  

KkVaidya is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 03:52   #404
BHPian
 
Scarlet_Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 551
Thanked: 396 Times
Post Radial Tyre Pressure Query

Hello Team-BHPians,

Wanted to check as to what is the correct tyre pressure when using radials on the 118NE. The pressure given in the user manual is for nylon tyres. Running radials on that pressure will wear out the tyres prematurely. The size of the radials that we are using is 155/80R13. Searching for information on the net reveals that for a car like the NE with radials, the tyre pressure should be between 32-35 PSI. It would be great if someone can confirm this? (Was curious as the Suzuki Alto user manual mentions the tyre pressure as 30 PSI for a car weighing around 700 kgs.) Another question that I had is what will be the effect of this tyre pressure on the suspension of the NE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KkVaidya View Post
At last I have been successful in eliminating the vapour lock problem rampant in Pre-91 models of 118NE.
Great news! Do keep us posted with the result of the test ride in the scorching summer heat of Ahmedabad. Speaking of scorching summer heat, I will be leaving Hyderabad for a few days to some cooler place on 23rd May 2012 in the Viceroy. Keep an eye out on the Travelogue section next month!

Regards and Keep Revving,

Rahul Waghmare.
Scarlet_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 07:34   #405
BHPian
 
ilangop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pune/Neyveli
Posts: 884
Thanked: 515 Times
Default Re: The Premier 118 NE thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by KkVaidya View Post
PROJECT: VAPOUR LOCK

I had to buy another separator for a cracked one. The new one I got started to leak from the top, which i fixed with Araldite.
Great Job Vaidya. Once I happned to see find a brand new vapor se4parotr unit with a spare parts shop. I was told that it got craked while the car was driven somewhere from Pune to Satara. I presume that the aftermarket ones are not of a good build. Instead I would suggest you to scout the scrap yard for a used one, and keep as a spare. Alternately you may buy one from Ebay/UK or US. VW had a similar vapor separator it seems.

http://www.yiparts.com/Part/en/n/RRHYSF
http://www.yiparts.com/Part/es/CBXPS
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/eBay-Mot...0.l1313&_rdc=1

Irrespective of the vehicle, the principle of operation is going to be the same. You may fit one with a steel casing as well, if you are skeptical about the plastic's quality.

-Ilango

Last edited by ilangop : 22nd May 2012 at 07:39. Reason: More info
ilangop is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'95 Premier 118 NE Petrol - The Journey Begins! ObsessedByFIAT Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 44 6th June 2014 12:02
Premier 118 NE - Grey Goose - Restored Pics on Page 2 hillram Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 37 22nd May 2014 00:40
My restoration project 118 NE svpatra Modifications & Accessories 47 30th April 2012 15:18
Used Maruti800, premier padmini , premier 118ne ? sakharamcool Hatchbacks 8 27th May 2008 11:17


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:31.

Copyright 2000 - 2016, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks