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Old 1st November 2011, 17:39   #31
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

Great thread.

Fiat Uno:

The radiator fan had started playing truant due to an internal loose connection and Sundaram Motors initially refused to honour parts warranty as the part was changed at another dealer even though an A.S.S. Some hard talking and sending a stinker to FIAT worked and it was changed under warranty.

The radiator rubber hose from the engine block was damaged infront of my eyes by the technician (an aged one) while trying to change coolant. A.S.S said I'll need to pay for the new hose which I refused point blank. After a bit of hard talking, a new hose was fixed and I was not billed for it.

Alto
The battery went dead one fine morning in a 15 month old car and it needed to be replaced. Since battery and other proprietary parts have lesser warranty, had to spend from the pocket.

Haven't had too many issues with M&M once I made my expectations clear during the Bolero ownership.

Cheers
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Old 1st November 2011, 19:21   #32
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

let me begin by saying that its not like i am a great fan of the service provide by car companies at A.S.S . so much so that till a few years back all i could do was change the engine oil of my car, now i am so sick of these guys that i rebuild the engine , repaint my car and do most of the work they require myself

yet few thing that have been said on this forum signify lack of knowledge of the owners and the lehmans attitude

lets look at things scientifically , from an engineers point of view.
when you say that the service adviser got your clutch changed at 26000 kms then why is it not recomended for change at 30000kms service?

Cmon! isnt the answer to that obvios? the wear and tear on a lot of parts on a car depends on the conditions it is subjected to.
two cars(or even bikes) which are exacty identical can age very differently. the following examples will help you understand

1. my friends whos owned a honda city ,wagon r, esteem, swift amoung others has never had a clutch changed earlier than 80k kms. infact his hondas clutch lasted 1.2lakhs while on the other hand none of my cars clutches last more than 40k. the reason is DRIVING STYLE and DRIVING CONDITIONS.

2.I am a college going student therefore i have plenty of friend that ride bikes and plenty that ride pulsars. Never have i heard of anyone getting more than 45kmpl on their bike and their average usually fluctuates between 35-45. I on the other hand consistently get 60kmpl from my pulsar and i have also touched figures like 80 kmpl (in city driving!) you can guess the reason

3.the friend with the honda has never changed tyres before 80k. another friend who used to cross 150 on a daily basis changed his at 20k. my dad who is a sedate driver changes his set at around 40000 always. One set on my 800 lasted for about 2500 (wheel alignment was a goner) another friend of mine got his suspension and steering overhauled and lost one particular tyre within 700kms! (from new to revealing the nylon threads, the wheel alignment was toed out too much) . you must be getting my point by now, but lets take another example.

4.the oldest car i own is a 1988 maruti 800. And most 800s in faridabad(delhis satellite town) develop more rust in a year(yes a year!) than it has in 23 years. cuz the water there is salty , too much dust and bad roads.(and todays cars have better quality paint than they did 23 years ago)

so dont blame the manufacturer for a desparity between the way two cars age , its usually due to a desparity between driving styles, not manufacturing defects.

i read here that someone had a hard gear change at 20-30k kms. and the clutch was changed because that was the part SUSPECTED and the gearshift didnt improve. i know its annoying but i think i get what the service advisor was thinking. gearboxes are designed to last the vehicles life and if it worked fine for 20-30k kms then its unlikely to have a defect while on the otherhand a clutch can wear out that soon, so 95% of the time he would be right to suspect the clutch. now you would say they should open and check the clutch. As some of us might know, opening the clutch involves dismantling most of the engine bay except for the engine. That much effort for less than 5% chance of going wrong doesnt make sense to them probably

the problem is we keep on cursing the companies. In uk even mercedes benz doesnt enjoy a good reputation for A.S.S. it ultimately boils down to how smart we are as a consumer. in developed countries people prefer to diagnose the faults themselves and then they are very specific with what they want to get done. the best attitude is to use your own brain, not just switch off yours and depend on only the sevice advisors just cuz you think you are paying! its you who's been driving the car for tens of thousands of kilometres , not him no one can diagnose a fault more accurately than the driver.A sevice advisor can detect only so much in a short test drive and is obviously likely to go wrong since cars are extremely complicated machines.

Last edited by mycarhasablower : 1st November 2011 at 19:33.
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Old 1st November 2011, 19:32   #33
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Half my car is replaced under warranty.

1.Clutch Replaced at 20 thousand km because it had become hard.
2.Gearbox syncro rings, low speed ratio replaced under warranty at 20 thousand km.
3. One mounting bush replaced under warranty, I dont remember at what km.
4.Wiper mechanism internals replaced under warranty as they were making a noise at 30 thousand.
5.Steering Gearbox replaced under warranty at 36500 Kilometre's.
6.Brake booster replaced to a bigger one under warranty at 30 thousand Kilometre's5 6.Turbo replaced under warranty at 48 thousand kilometre's

Maruti has a freehand compared to other manufacturer's at replacing part if they are found faulty.
totally agree with you.

i have never faced any problem with maruti in replacing parts under warranty.

they have replaced my suspensions too under warranty and never said that they are wear and tear etc.
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Old 1st November 2011, 19:54   #34
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

You cannot really call it a "Great Indian Warranty Scam", as I for one think that ALL warranties have a grey area one or the other way.

Considering the price of some critical parts, which are not wear and tear, like the ECU, the extended warranty is like an insurance - A peace of mind!.

Other than that, for wear and tear parts, it all boils down to your relationship with the A.S.S . I believe this, is the case for almost all warranties.
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Old 1st November 2011, 20:42   #35
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

@Gaurav Chopra: I think the Polo engine head going kaput was quiet common and VW has been doing the 'head transplant' more frequently and very silently. Cost 1.3L: suppose this happens after warranty expires car becomes a 'dud' immediately: better sold of on 'as is where is' condition.
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Old 1st November 2011, 21:02   #36
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

Quote:
Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
Cmon! isnt the answer to that obvios? the wear and tear on a lot of parts on a car depends on the conditions it is subjected to.
two cars(or even bikes) which are exacty identical can age very differently. the following examples will help you understand
You did not even read my post. Did you? Unless there is a special non layman technique of X-ray vision possessed by wise men and service engineers which can diagnose whether a failure is due to wear and tear or otherwise... I wonder how can they claim all clutches which fail at 50,000kms are due to wear and tear.
If a clutch can fail at 5000kms due to a manufacturing defect, I suppose, it can fail at 50,000kms also due to some defect and not just wear and tear. If you read my post you will realize that I have no problems with company opening the clutch and then giving judgement, rather than just assuming.
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so dont blame the manufacturer for a desparity between the way two cars age , its usually due to a desparity between driving styles, not manufacturing defects.
Hmmm, and just by looking at a car from outside, without opening up the part, the service advisors x-ray vision can tell whether its wear and tear or not?
Quote:

i read here that someone had a hard gear change at 20-30k kms. and the clutch was changed because that was the part SUSPECTED and the gearshift didnt improve. i know its annoying but i think i get what the service advisor was thinking. gearboxes are designed to last the vehicles life and if it worked fine for 20-30k kms then its unlikely to have a defect while on the otherhand a clutch can wear out that soon, so 95% of the time he would be right to suspect the clutch. now you would say they should open and check the clutch. As some of us might know, opening the clutch involves dismantling most of the engine bay except for the engine. That much effort for less than 5% chance of going wrong doesnt make sense to them probably
So its right to make a fool of the customer based on thinking. In that way why give warranty at all. After all if anything worked when the car was bought, if it stopped working, the owner must have been at fault. I certainly hope you are not looking at a career in the automobile industry. I would dread you as part of customer care
Quote:
the problem is we keep on cursing the companies. In uk even mercedes benz doesnt enjoy a good reputation for A.S.S. it ultimately boils down to how smart we are as a consumer. in developed countries people prefer to diagnose the faults themselves and then they are very specific with what they want to get done. the best attitude is to use your own brain, not just switch off yours and depend on only the sevice advisors just cuz you think you are paying! its you who's been driving the car for tens of thousands of kilometres , not him no one can diagnose a fault more accurately than the driver.A sevice advisor can detect only so much in a short test drive and is obviously likely to go wrong since cars are extremely complicated machines.
Sane advise. But in the end its not you who is deciding what is warranty and what is not, but the service adviser.
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Old 1st November 2011, 21:19   #37
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

My Alto's clutch busted at 11000 km (diaphragm spring broken, clear manufacturing defect), but I never got any warranty. So I decided against extended warranty when I bought the A-star. Now as the dust has settled down, I have decided against Maruti for my next purchase.

For my type of buying pattern, may be I don't need a '100 workshops in my city' car. (I prefer to buy small cars without loan and change cars every 5 years, rather than buying sedans with loan and use for 15 years.)
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Old 1st November 2011, 22:22   #38
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

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Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
My Alto's clutch busted at 11000 km (diaphragm spring broken, clear manufacturing defect), but I never got any warranty. So I decided against extended warranty when I bought the A-star. Now as the dust has settled down, I have decided against Maruti for my next purchase.

For my type of buying pattern, may be I don't need a '100 workshops in my city' car. (I prefer to buy small cars without loan and change cars every 5 years, rather than buying sedans with loan and use for 15 years.)

if it was clear that spring was broken you should have fought with them for warranty. a little noise would have compelled them to approve warranty.
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Old 1st November 2011, 22:24   #39
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

I own a safari and had to make a lot of fuss to get my turbo replaced.
I mentioned at the service center that the turbo whistle is clearly audible and the service advisor agree to it @ 38k kms.

After a huge fight with the service center which costed me 7 hours spanning over 2 days, they finally said they would replace it.

After this huge fight, I got frustrated, and then they come to me and say that faulty turbo charger caused oil to spread in the intercooler and that too had to be cleaned under my costs. I had to give up. Isint this a case of cheating where I have to pay for labour for some faulty component?

As TSK mentioned, the replacement of bushes and tie rods.

Even for tie rod replacement I had to make a huge fuss. As far as bushes and bearings are concerned, I strictly said I will not be paying money for it. Get it replaced or things are going to get worse. The service advisor said as if he is doing me a favor and said he will get it replaced free of cost.

Then after the replacement and i leave the showroom, he calls me and tells I have to pay 2k for the replacement. He said he did not know that my vehicle was 4x4 and it could not be covered under warranty and the service center guys cut about 2.5 k Rs from his salary if I dont pay that money to him.

I dint know if service advisor was fooling me or a fact, I did not give a damn after he kept the vehicle in his showroom for 1 week for all the above said replacements.
If it was a fact, I still dont feel sorry for the service advisor. It was his incompetence that got himself into this mess.

Somehow even without a fuss, the replaced my faulty rear camera .

The next problem: The stereo in the vehicle that came with the vehicle.
This has become problematic and it was not functioning and the service center gave me an address which is really really far and said I have to go to that place to get it corrected. Shouldnt the service center take care of all the OEM Parts?

The next problem:
I generally get service center at 7.5 Kms. So my service record says 5k, 10k, 15k and 22.5k. Now the 20k service was done when I had done 15k kms. But the service center argues with me that I had missed the 20k service by 2.5 k kms. I tried to explain that instead of recommended 10k kms, I am doing service only at 7.5k kms but it was in vain. I got so mad.

Another problem when service done at multiple service centers.
I was in Chennai for a few days, and was busy but gave my vehicle for 30k service there. But apparently 30k service involves oil replacement which was not carried over by the Chennai service center. Then the next service I was getting done at 38k kms and some tie rod (Which has no relation with engine oil replacement) was to be changed under warranty. And this service center argues that engine oil was not replaced at 30k so my warranty is void. Damn, i mentioned that this is something that needs to be checked by the previous service center and they did not mention me this. They just carried regular service and gave me vehicle because of which the warranty becomes void. This is absolutely insane. I generally look into the vehicle booklet, but due to work and vehicle being with my father, i did not bother too much. But somehow after another fight, I managed to get the tie rods replaced.

Needless to say most of these problems are with one service center in Hyderabad and I am never visiting that service center again. (And mostly if I do visit that place, that service advisor might screw up my vehicle as I did not pay him that 2.5 k )

Last edited by himavanth_m : 1st November 2011 at 22:27.
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Old 1st November 2011, 22:33   #40
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

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if it was clear that spring was broken you should have fought with them for warranty. a little noise would have compelled them to approve warranty.
Precisely my point. I would rather change my Maruti Loyalty if I have to make noise to claim even a genuine warranty.
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Old 1st November 2011, 23:33   #41
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

@tsk: you have taken my comments way too personally. there is a reason why i didnt quote you. its cause , my comments were in reply to the so many posts and threads that are mushrooming criticizing the A.S.S of different companies and not to your posts in particular. Far too many people are ranting about bad A.S.S these days. And without reason from what i can see.

then again you dont seem to have read the examples i gave on how drastically different wear patterns can be due to usage.

now when a clutch has lasted 50k kms and then it fails, there is a negligible chance of it having a manufacturing defect . the possibility is so small that it doesnt warrant the effort of unmounting the gearbox just for the sake of righteousness ;just cuz the clutch lasted 10k less than it should have.

there is something called as experience, if they start opening every engine just to be fair to you then they will not make any money and you will have waiting periods of months for repairs at service centres. Not very practical eh ? for that matter the human brain uses the same procedure for the sake of practicality. when you are a kid you read every alphabet to read a word, then with experience , you just glance at the word and you know what it is. rarely there would be a word that you would mis-read and then you correct yourself. Do you get my drift?

Let me assure you that my career is definitely going to be in the automobile industry, though you can be assured that you wont be dealing with me in the future since i intend to stick to r&d.

one more bit, yes it is the service advisor that decides if you should get the warranty , but like it so common with most indians , they try to rip off people they can rip off. if you come across as an ignorant layman who has no clue what hes driving, then such a person is an easy target. But if you know your stuff and know what you are talking, believe me, they wouldnt ever mess with you and this i know from first hand experience.

Last edited by mycarhasablower : 1st November 2011 at 23:39.
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Old 1st November 2011, 23:57   #42
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

Hi Guys,

My TDCi has done 40k kms. I have given it for service and had asked them to check the suspension as I was hearing noises.

Yesterday I got the call from the SA and he said the stabilizer link rod was broken.

I asked him to replace it and asked him if this covered under warranty. Get this - No. Apparently since my car has run 40K not all parts are covered under extended warranty. I asked him to provide me a list and he said he will give me the contact of the concerned department.

Having said that my thermistor for AC has been replaced three times under warranty. The fact it has failed three times is another story. Heaven forbid If there is no warranty on this I will go bankrupt.
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Old 2nd November 2011, 01:31   #43
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

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Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
@Gaurav Chopra: I think the Polo engine head going kaput was quiet common and VW has been doing the 'head transplant' more frequently and very silently.
Ya, I heard there were quiet a few 1.2 petrol polos from the very first batch which had their engine head changed.

Quote:
Cost 1.3L: suppose this happens after warranty expires car becomes a 'dud' immediately: better sold of on 'as is where is' condition.
I wont do that even with my Mitsubishi Cedia, Polo is way too common. Outside I can get this job done within Rs. 50k max. And this I am quoting for the polo. If its swift or something, take the estimate down to 25 to 30k. You just need reliable sources to get the parts and reliable mechanics to fix them..

"As is where is condition" can certainly work for me but I'd rather be the buyer than the seller.

Sorry for being too much OT Guys.. back to discussion..

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 2nd November 2011 at 01:36.
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Old 2nd November 2011, 14:13   #44
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

I too had opted for extended warranty for my Santro, 2yr + 2yrs = 4500 inr. feel its worth it as i recovered my moneys worth

Items claimed under extended warranty-
1. Radiator fan motor
2. dash turn signal / headlight switch assembly
3. door lock actuator
4. ac compressor bearing

UM
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Old 2nd November 2011, 15:24   #45
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

My brother in law (a high court lawyer, later a HC judge) claimed the rubber parts on his Premier Padmini and they did honour it. But then ...
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