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Old 3rd November 2011, 13:14   #46
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

Quote:
Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
@tsk: you have taken my comments way too personally. there is a reason why i didnt quote you. its cause , my comments were in reply to the so many posts and threads that are mushrooming criticizing the A.S.S of different companies and not to your posts in particular. Far too many people are ranting about bad A.S.S these days. And without reason from what i can see.
It is important to have a viewpoint from the other side as well. Things are not always the way we think it is.If you have lived long (and wisely) enough, you will know this.This applies to all fields. Some of the points made by @mycarhasablower are very valid.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 14:10   #47
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

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Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
@tsk: you have taken my comments way too personally. there is a reason why i didnt quote you. its cause , my comments were in reply to the so many posts and threads that are mushrooming criticizing the A.S.S of different companies and not to your posts in particular. Far too many people are ranting about bad A.S.S these days. And without reason from what i can see.
Actually, this is where the disconnect is. You think its "without reason". But I feel when you pay over half your yearly salary for a car, you deserve much better service.

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then again you dont seem to have read the examples i gave on how drastically different wear patterns can be due to usage.
I am not denying that. But assuming usage to be the issue without investigation is what I am against
Quote:
now when a clutch has lasted 50k kms and then it fails, there is a negligible chance of it having a manufacturing defect . the possibility is so small that it doesnt warrant the effort of unmounting the gearbox just for the sake of righteousness ;just cuz the clutch lasted 10k less than it should have.
You are very very wrong. I can point you to countless examples of Tata Safari where around 60-70K Master had slave cylinders had to be changed. These parts should last much more. Faulty cylinders can actually lead to early clutch plate wear and tear. So clutch failing at 50K can be usage related or related to the master slave cylinders. Without investigation a service adviser has no right to assume customer at fault.
Quote:
there is something called as experience, if they start opening every engine just to be fair to you then they will not make any money and you will have waiting periods of months for repairs at service centres. Not very practical eh ? for that matter the human brain uses the same procedure for the sake of practicality. when you are a kid you read every alphabet to read a word, then with experience , you just glance at the word and you know what it is. rarely there would be a word that you would mis-read and then you correct yourself. Do you get my drift?
Again, you are off track. You do not have to open clutch to see. If you say "clutch is faulty" and replace it, you are opening it up anyways to put in the new clutch. At that time, why not inspect the clutch and see.

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Let me assure you that my career is definitely going to be in the automobile industry, though you can be assured that you wont be dealing with me in the future since i intend to stick to r&d.

one more bit, yes it is the service advisor that decides if you should get the warranty , but like it so common with most indians , they try to rip off people they can rip off. if you come across as an ignorant layman who has no clue what hes driving, then such a person is an easy target. But if you know your stuff and know what you are talking, believe me, they wouldnt ever mess with you and this i know from first hand experience.
See you are just re-stating my point. In workshops, often customer are taken for a ride, and that was the point of my thread, how customers are being robbed in this warranty scam.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 17:36   #48
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

Leave alone warranty, it is very difficult to get someone agree upon a defect that is not incapacitating the car. When a problem is reported people get defensive to start with - "Sir, it is correct or Sir, this is how it is in all cars etc" - right from a wheel alignment issue to a lack of braking issue. When it comes to warranty I do think we get robbed. Example:

My Tata Indica V2 at Prerana Motors Bangalore. Starter motor went off at 40,000 kms inside warranty. My friendly service adviser said it is common for starter motor to fail around 40,000 kms. Ultimately, they refused the warranty because I was late by 30 days for my 10,000 kms service even though I gave it before the 10,000 kms on the odo.

Now,
How is 30 days delay for the 10K service affecting the starter motor at 40,000 kms ?
Even if I had given the car right on time for 10K service, what would they have done to the starter motor to prevent it from failing at 40K ?
If it is common for the starter motor to fail at 40,000 Kms, why don't they acknowledge it officially ?
When the service center knows that the starter motor has nothing to do with the 30 days delay for the 10K service, why don't they act instead of hiding behind warranty rules ?

I considered that day light cheating. I could have fought with them, but someone else took my car for service and I did not have the energy, time and patience to fight at that time. I let it go. Damages: Around Rs 3K if I remember correctly.

Bottom line, they are all ready to take an average Joe for a ride. And btw, it is not possible for everyone to be a car expert - like everyone is not a medical expert. Though being a car expert may get you good service, it is a weak argument to say that one needs to be a car expert to get good service. It is like saying you need to know your heart valves inside out for a proper surgery. What we need is a fair deal for an average Joe.

Last edited by idofsuresh : 3rd November 2011 at 17:52.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 21:59   #49
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

Thank you Mr. Tanveer.

For starting this thread. Stark reality and unsettling facts laid bare.

Having read T-BHP & understood the intricacies + having acquired (recently) a good mechanice Mr.Ossi (again thanks to fellow T-Bhpian rutwij) + add to the pathetic Tata A.S.S. especially at Wasan motors workshop, Deonar -
I had already spoken to my father & was determined not to spend a single rupee for extended warranty this time. (Rs. 5250 to be precise).

But to my dismay - Wasan Motors - said it was COMPULSORY. Inspite of some haggling and insistence - they did NOT let my bypass the Extended Warranty, neither let me transfer the insurance from my Indica or even let me get it from the Insurance Company of my choice!

I had understood right then - that this must be some cheap tactic to make some money from the customers. Otherwise such autocratic rules in this time & age?

This totally confirms it.
Total waste of my money!
:(

Rubber not covered, electricals partially covered - so many damn T&C !


I used to keep quoting a similar example a few years ago with regards to cell phones.
I am referring to the period between 2003 to 2005 when there used to exist a vast difference in price for any phone in the grey market & the official price.
(which kinda gave rise to those small mobile shops & big names like Alfa in Mumbai)
If a Nokia phone was for 24000 with bill & warranty, it would usually be around 18,000 or even less in the grey market (imported from Dubai, Singapore or HongKong Malaysia usually).

I used to argue then - that you are paying 6k for Warranty - when Nokia clearly mentions that Warrant void - in case of physical damage, water damage, or unauthorized repairs.

Having used about 14 phones by then - I could say 1 thing - nothing ever happened to a Nokia phone - unless either of the above 2 happened - physical damage & water damage. (though they used to survive a lot of physical damage as well).
And those were the days of those silicon covers, zip covers, pouches and what not - where the chances of damage were quite minimized.
Infact so many people used to keep their phones in those 30 Rs transparent plastic zipper pouches made specific for each model - that after 1 year - the plastic would be yellow & dirty - but the phone would come out in mint condition - totally brand new.

So it was senseless buying a Nokia phone with warranty - as it was a RARE occassion when it would fail by its own self (upto 2006 - because 2007 onwards they started making phones with crazy issues e.g. 5800) and if it did - it would be either due to physical damage or water damage - either ways warranty void.
Infact they used to show the minutest of water damage in an area - totally different - from where the problem exists & still claim out of warranty.
E.g. - if you went in for a problem with the mic, they would open your phone and show you some minimal moisture near the camera (which would be working fine) and say it is out of warranty.


So I guess it is safe to say - such SCAMS have been on in every sector for quite some time.

It is now - that we are realizing it in the Automobile sector - more so
&
SPECIAL thanks to Team BHP - because here you read about other's reviews and plights and are put in a better position to analyze the plethora of information available on this forum and make best use of it.

So hat's off to Team BHP once again.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 22:50   #50
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

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Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj View Post
I had already spoken to my father & was determined not to spend a single rupee for extended warranty this time. (Rs. 5250 to be precise)..
A very unintelligent decision I must say. you are lucky the dealer forced you the buy it.
With a Tata vehicle it is a must. I do not know how good the quality is of current Tata vehicles, since the newest Tata vehicle i own is 3 years old.
I have changed parts worth 50,000 after warranty got over. 25000rs of those was covered under extended warranty. So a good 17000 saving over my cost price of 7000 odd for the safari warranty.

But then I run around 20,000+ kms every year, so for me it makes sense.

Around 60,000kms you will need to change the following parts in your vehicle due to failure (high chance)

1. Alternator regulater or some other part
2. Starter motor
3. Condersor fan will going has a high chance
4. AC compressor will fail
5. Some switches will fail

So if you are going to cover over 50,000kms in 3 years, it makes sense for extended warranty,

However for low running cars, its a waste of money.,
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Old 3rd November 2011, 23:16   #51
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

My 8 month 6k old estilo developed steering rattle and SE was not willing to consider it under warrenty untill I showed him my temper and my LLB knowledge.

another a slightly off topic question in regard to warranty is if it's transferable or not.?
I was almost into buying a Safari which was 4 month old, called service guy for history, he told me that any warranty for the vehicle becomes invalid after resale so i decided not to even think any TATA vehicle for my purchase.Although it's another story how i purchased a 5 yr old, immaculately maintained Indica Turbo. and also came to know a across road brilliant garage with expertise in handling Indica problems, so no A** issues with this one

As far as I know for Honda and Suzuki even extended warranty is transferred to new buyer. More informed people may shed light on this policy of different manufacturers
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Old 3rd November 2011, 23:46   #52
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
A very unintelligent decision I must say. you are lucky the dealer forced you the buy it.
With a Tata vehicle it is a must. I do not know how good the quality is of current Tata vehicles, since the newest Tata vehicle i own is 3 years old.
I have changed parts worth 50,000 after warranty got over. 25000rs of those was covered under extended warranty. So a good 17000 saving over my cost price of 7000 odd for the safari warranty.

But then I run around 20,000+ kms every year, so for me it makes sense.

Around 60,000kms you will need to change the following parts in your vehicle due to failure (high chance)

1. Alternator regulater or some other part
2. Starter motor
3. Condersor fan will going has a high chance
4. AC compressor will fail
5. Some switches will fail

So if you are going to cover over 50,000kms in 3 years, it makes sense for extended warranty,

However for low running cars, its a waste of money.,

Sir,

I was referring to the NEW vehicle I was about to purchase
(or rather purchased - delivery on 6th October, Dussera - Tata Manza Elan 'Celebration Edition'
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...n-edition.html (Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !))

This was based on all the things you have mentioned -

My previous car - Tata Indica V2 Lxi Petrol (2005) had covered a grand total of 34785 Kms in 6 years 1 month and 11 days.

Hence - as you can see - it agrees completely to your opinion.

& even the Indica - I had the extended warranty package - hardly helped.
I still suffered a lot.
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Old 4th November 2011, 02:45   #53
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Post Ford Warranty certificate

Attached is the Ford warranty certificate. As you can see most of the warranty runs out by the time you have covered 40k kms. The only coverage you get is for Electricals, steering and AC.
Attached Thumbnails
The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed-screenhunter_012.jpg  


Last edited by fiery enzyme : 4th November 2011 at 02:47.
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Old 4th November 2011, 10:31   #54
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

Quote:
Originally Posted by drsnt View Post

another a slightly off topic question in regard to warranty is if it's transferable or not.?
I was almost into buying a Safari which was 4 month old, called service guy for history, he told me that any warranty for the vehicle becomes invalid after resale so i decided not to even think any TATA vehicle for my purchase.
I don't know which dealer you went to but I was also about to buy a used Safari and had researched the whole warranty issue. Standard and extended warranty both are transferable to the new owner.

Cheers
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Old 4th November 2011, 13:05   #55
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

My 2000 Accent's water pump blew a few days after warranty expired. The Hyundai service centre guy I was dealing with (in Wadala, Mumbai- forget the service centre name now) got it replaced under warranty anyway. So I really don't have any major complaints with Hyundai.

With my SWift, the "clutch replace kijiye" refrain has been going on since I got this car (about 30,000 km). I finally changed it at my expense at 65,000 km. There was no offer to replace under warranty and I didn't bother asking. It has made a world of difference though- used to be rock hard earlier.

VW so far have no spent a single cent on maintenance in the summer and monsoon complimentary checkups. First service at 15,000 km will be fully paid anyway. Hopefully nothing blows during warranty. My friend who has an identical Vento AT got his TCU changed under warranty for an acceleration problem and they have assured him of changing the AT unit for free if the problem recurs.

So I would stop short of calling it a scam. My only grouse is that warranty gets voided for any silly mod, like upgrading tyres etc. which I think is a ridiculous practice and should be stopped. Within limits of course.
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Old 4th November 2011, 13:23   #56
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

I don't know about other brands, but the MASS who I visit regularly (MSM) does not try to wriggle out of a warranty claim, generally. If something is covered under warranty, and the car is regularly serviced with them, they don't make a fuss. Perhaps because they are run by MSIL themselves.

I am not sure about other MASS here though.
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Old 4th November 2011, 14:12   #57
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

Very interesting thread indeed. In all of my cases i have always seen the way a warranty claim is handled depends on the dealer. For example, i had a 2008 Ford Endeavour 2wd with just 24,000 Kms on the odo when the clutch gave way within 11 Months.
When i approached NCR Ford in Faridabad they said a new clutch assembly would take 14-21 Days to arrive and it would be replaced, after 4 weeks when they received the clutch unit they replaced the unit i had on order with another customer and asked me to return after a further 2 weeks after which they replaced my clutch unit.
When time came for the billing things turned sour, they asked me to pay 46k upfront or else they wouldn't let go of my car, this was never clarified for the past 6 weeks and when i refused and asked them to refit my broken clutch back so i could have the car towed and taken to another Ford Dealer they refused and closed the gates so i couldn't leave the premises.
Not one to pick fight, i asked my office for a cheque of 46k which was refused by NCR as an option as-well, to which the only option was cash.
Since all this harassment happened at a time when i needed the car and was profusely pre-occupied at work, i thought of taking this instance to the courts after maybe 4 or 5 days but my legal advisers said it was a case of turning a mole hill into a mountain due to the fact i had no proof. Needless to say i sold the car that very week.
In stark contrast, i have 2 diesel Suzuki Swifts for use as company cars, which always get many suspension parts and small plastic parts replaced by the drivers without my intervention and or Notice.
Also, my mothers Honda Civic which has covered almost 1,60,000 Kms and is 5 Years old has seen many major parts like the Steering column, Shock absorbers and also the gear shift lever if i remember correctly, replaced within warranty always without any issue or alarms.
The Irony is that the Honda & Suzuki dealership are literally 5 kms from NCR Ford!

P.S.: It would be worth mentioning that i would testify to Honda and Toyota reliability and stellar A.S.S capabilities 100% because my 2006 Toyota Camry has covered 1,23,000 Kms and during the course of warranty they even replaced the stereo and front suspension bushes simply because of rattles and the car is still going strong.
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Old 4th November 2011, 15:03   #58
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

The biggest gripe I have though, is using an after-market part as a reason for voiding the warranty.

"ECU/Power-steering motor/fuel-pumped failed, sir? It's because you installed an after-market stereo."

"Gearbox failure, sure? It's because you installed after-market alloys."


I'm aware that sometimes after-market parts can affect other components, but at least have the integrity to check the root cause first before you try and slime out of your contractual obligations.
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Old 4th November 2011, 20:15   #59
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Default Re: Clutch and gearbox related

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Clutch

This is the most common thing in which you get fleeced. A TBHPIAN went with a problem of hard gear shift. Car has done 27000kms(approx).
==============
For example, master and slave cylinder replacement is given even at 80,000kms as they are not "wear and tear" affected parts. but if a Faulty cylinder leads to clutch damage no company will give you replacement, and try to wriggle out of warranty citing wear and tear
I had pleasant experience with Toyota . We have an Innova which had clocked about 18000Kms when the left front brake pad wore off and started to score the disc. Had to buy a non Toyota brake pad and reach our home town. Visited the dealer and lodged a complain. Was given a new set of brake pad and left disc as free replacement. NO COST!. Again with Maruti I had good experience. Have a Dzire ZDI and under warranty got the following replace. 1) Front Right Strut, Rear left Shock 2 times. Also got the complete clutch and brake pedal changed as the engine would switch off when shifting at about 30kmph . The problem lied in the clutch pedal switch which is supposed to cut off fuel supply.
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Old 5th November 2011, 01:34   #60
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Default Re: The great Indian Warranty scam - How "grey areas" mean you get robbed

After warranty expires too they honour the claim if it's for something like a gearbox or engine. One of my friend's had a Dzire gearbox syncro failing 2 months after his warranty expired. Maruti replaced it under goodwill warranty.

With Maruti, they are generous in warranty replaced and this I have realised after almost 12 years of owning maruti vehicles. If something has a chance of failing, or seems on its way to failure, it is replaced immediately.
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