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Old 30th January 2012, 21:30   #151
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

I'm afraid our Government WILL end up imposing additional taxes on diesel cars.However I hope they don't tax too heavily!!That will just kill the market for cars,totally!!Imagine a VW Vento costing 13+ Lakhs(in TN and KA).Instead,I wish they raise taxes for diesel cars moderately and reduce taxes on petrol cars as an effort to shift the market's sentiment towards petrol.That way,only people who really NEED diesel cars will end up purchasing them!!
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Old 30th January 2012, 23:30   #152
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
In my opinion they should make DIESEL sold at market price. Irrespective of its public or private. Tie it will the Income tax Dept, allow them to claim Tax Benefits for the proportionate subsidy Govt. would have paid for the bills he produce for the fuel in that year.

Atleast to get this tax claims, every shop-walla will have to file returns.

And you see how the Govt cash-reserve gets filled.
Flawless policy, if implemented in ideal world conditions.

In reality, a farmer who is running with a can of diesel for his pumpset has to bear the additional expense, and until the time he sends the bill to income tax(farm income is not taxed, by the way) he has to skimp a meal or two till he gets paid for his produce(if only he gets compensated).
Or consider the Ape mini-truck guy, who transported the shiny new LCD/LED tv to our doorstep. Through which bill can he claim the additional expense?


The successive governments should have gradually removed fuel subsidy and compensated by other means as you have said(tax relief, fuel waiver). But given the fragile nature of our mandate, every government is now fighting to survive itself everyday of the 5 x 365 days(this trend has now spread to the states too).

Attached: A picture showing how 'a real' common man travels in India.

Now, isn't car a luxury?
Attached Thumbnails
Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars-100_6317.jpg  


Last edited by ramzsys : 30th January 2012 at 23:49.
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Old 30th January 2012, 23:47   #153
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
Attached: A picture showing how 'a real' common man travels in India.

Now, isn't car a luxury?
The persons depicted in the picture do not have to report to thier customers in white-collared dress, smelling pleasant. However they are dressed or they smell, Customers are going to buy thier farm products (Rice, vegetables etc).

They have no "managers" and if they come 1 hour late to thier farms, they need not answer anybody. Farmer does not use a laptop (Mostly) and will not be mugged at night if travelling home late after work.

Car is not a necassity to the farmer for farming, but it is a necassity for someone who handles clients, reports to someone in an MNC and to whom time is important.
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Old 31st January 2012, 00:00   #154
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

When Maruti suzuki Swift was launched, the diesel version LDI costed 4.68 lakh, ex-showroom. A newer model launched recently costs 5.36 lakh now, a rise of Rs.70k, and there is news of record bookings.

Now whats the big deal about government taxing diesel cars?


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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
The persons depicted in the picture do not have to report to thier customers in white-collared dress, smelling pleasant.

Car is not a necassity to the farmer for farming, but it is a necassity for someone who handles clients, reports to someone in an MNC and to whom time is important.
A person who is accorded such a status of handling clients and reporting to MNC must be paid in cash/kind so as to maintain his white-collared dress and to smell pleasant as is expected of him/her.

Last edited by ramzsys : 31st January 2012 at 00:09.
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Old 31st January 2012, 03:10   #155
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

I personally feel that bringing USA or for that matter any foreign countries into picture is not gonna serve any purpose. Our country is more on a different platform and there seems to be no point comparing India with US. People in US are co-operating, majority of them are law abiding people and the same is the government reciprocating to the people. Here in india we keep on complaining about the government or some third person and we continue to do what we normally do whether it is correct or wrong. How many of us are ready to use a bi-cycle/walk for a short distance.


To quote a small example-- In a public rail transportation in Japan, where a female passenger was travelling she happened to observe that there was a small cut on the fabric upholstery on the seat. What did she do?????. She took a needle, thread and stitched the seat. This is the commitment of the people and also the Government of their country. If the same situation had happened in India, there would have been a research by poking fingers inside the seat to find out whats there inside interesting and finally end up with a big cut.


As far as public transportation is concerned to admit the truth , it has seriously devoloped today. Infact atleast in Bangalore what i observe is the increase in quality public trasnportation. I hope the BMRCL will bring the metro at the earliest.

Last edited by GTO : 1st February 2012 at 17:49. Reason: Quoted post was messed up, hence removing
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Old 31st January 2012, 06:58   #156
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Long back when I was a kid my grandma used to tell me a story of a dog and a bone. The greedy dog had a bone in his mouth but when he crosses a river he sees another dog with the bone and jumps in the river to the other bone too. Now you are all thinking why am it walking about this story. Indian politicians are the dogs who are very very greedy and they only think about how to get all that others own (our hard earned money in the name of taxes) but the only difference is that here they do not end in the river but keep on their antics of looting the general public.

Most of the policies that they have made are only for their own benefits and care nothing about the common people in general. Hope that we will sometime see a better leaders.
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Old 31st January 2012, 07:35   #157
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

With all these increases in rates happening at a regular intervals as hike in petrol prices or in the form of diesel tax, next couple of years is looking bad :(

A decade or two down the line, we might all be posting things like
"Do you remember in 2010, when we drove the T-Jet and redlined it.. !!!"

T-BHP might have even an entire section dedicated to high end cycles, complete with Initial reviews and long term ownerships..

Raising the tax on diesel vehicles by ridiculous amounts, frankly, might not add up to much, as the number of non-commercial diesel vehicles (personal use) are actually low. Bulk of the diesel market is taken up by trucks/bus etc which basically form the supply chain of India. A better option as a couple of our members suggested, is to have an yearly tax of say 4000~5000 on diesel vehicles. Anything more might even kill the diesels.
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Old 31st January 2012, 08:03   #158
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

Quote:
To quote a small example-- In a public rail transportation in Japan, where a female passenger was travelling she happened to observe that there was a small cut on the fabric upholstery on the seat. What did she do?????. She took a needle, thread and stitched the seat. This is the commitment of the people and also the Government of their country.
You are right, what you give is what you get.

But the Govt of India unashamedly fleeces the middle-class as if it were their right, the middle-class is so burdened by all these taxes, special taxes, super taxes and additional taxes that they have lost the energy and stamina to go out there and protest against the govt. Case in point was the fatigued citizenry of Mumbai skipping Anna Hazare's campaign altogether. This is a likeable outcome as far as GoI is concerned.

the last time around, atleast folks in Delhi who have a bit more of life remaining in them gave it right back to the so-called 'govt of India' during the IAC ramlila campaign just after a few rupees were hiked in petrol prices on the flimsiest of pretexts.

the taxes regime that the current middle-class comes under is almost at par with international standards, we are taxed as much as in England or US or any scandinavian country. But what do we get for this money being squeezed out of us. Even for using a half-decent road, one is being forced to pay toll and that too after being taxed like crazy.

Last edited by lurker : 31st January 2012 at 08:04.
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Old 31st January 2012, 08:53   #159
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

Additional taxes on cigarettes , I agree to it . Its not because I am non - smoker,but then let the damage to your body be at a price .

For the diesel cars , I cannot agree it . As per the report given in TOI , they say out of the total consumption of diesel in our country diesel cars only correspond to 0.6% !! And this is a report given out by the planning commission !
Ref :- Personal cars account for 0.6% of India's diesel consumption - The Times of India

This being a fact , I cannot think of any justification for putting this extra tax to the diesel cars . Infact its widely acknowledged that the diesel cars with the modern technology is a welcome to the environment too . Efficiency that a diesel car can provide can even be better than a petrol - hybrid car .
ref:- Diesel cars 'better than hybrids' for fuel efficiency | Mail Online

Well all these said , I do not think there is any reason for government to add taxes to the diesel cars . If its a political agenda to please the so called ' farmer's political party ' or the ' party of people who dont own a diesel car ' , well then there is no point in having a discussion .

If farmer wellfare , common man welfare is the real agenda then I am sure that the government would agree that there are much much more things which they can improve in the current scenario than just adding taxes to diesel cars !
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Old 31st January 2012, 09:07   #160
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
Well, I am not sure about what the real situation is with the PSUs about their so-called losses on diesel fuel, but if it's true I would support this decision provided it prevents diesel from being deregulated.
It's not so called losses - it's real losses.

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Originally Posted by 316kmph View Post
I dont understand.
Wouldn't it be a better idea to simply deregulate diesel prices and give tax breaks for commercial vehicles (such as trucks and vans)?
What kind of tax breaks?

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
In USA diesel or petrol or for that matter any fuel is FREE of regulation. Heck even Avgas/jet fuel costs lesser than 97 Octane petrol.

In India taxes cost for approx 50% of cost of fuel per liter. This is the biggest scam being carried out by all successive governments, to fill their pockets and alas we are lead to believe our fuel is subsidized!!!
You are getting confused between taxes & regulation. Just because petrol isn't regulated in the US doesn't mean it is not taxed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
When there was a recession in the US, and the Gas prices went near the 5$/g mark, Govt reduced taxes and provided a subsidy immediately to reduce the burden on the common USA Man. Sorry, I googled for a link, but could not find it
This was discussed during the 2008 democratic presidential primaries, but as far as I know it never happened. Hillary proposed the 3 month tax holiday on gasoline, but it didn't happen.

And even when proposed, it was a short term measure - I still don't see any subsidy on petrol in the US like you claimed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rejoycjohn View Post

If farmer wellfare , common man welfare is the real agenda then I am sure that the government would agree that there are much much more things which they can improve in the current scenario than just adding taxes to diesel cars !
Welfare isn't the agenda - the agenda is not recovered subsidies given to diesel vehicles not used for transport or farming.
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Old 31st January 2012, 12:35   #161
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
It's not so called losses - it's real losses.



What kind of tax breaks?



Any thing, to offset losses arising due to deregulated diesel prices, such as:

1. lower excise duty
2. Higher depreciation on such vehicles thereby reducing income tax burden.
3. Take support from the State Governments with lowered VAT, This could be offset by cash bounties from central to the state which would otherwise go towards Diesel price subsidy.
4. Or even use the subsidy money as tax credit towards future payments to the government.

This, in the long run would reduce subsidy burden on the government. Then if only public money would be properly channelized, could lead to a fair compromise of lower taxes and better living standards.
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Old 31st January 2012, 13:10   #162
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
It's not so called losses - it's real losses.
.
PSU is govt owned. And govt gets taxes.
Calling diesel sale a loss would be like a businessman opening two shops, running one at profit, one at loss, and even of overall result is profit, crying about loss.
Kindly read up on cost of diesel before taxes. Its around 32rs. Diesel is sold at 40-45rs. So its currently sold at profit, not at loss.
tomorrow, govt may say diesel cost will be 2rs/liter and then put 100rs tax, and then claim PSUs making 30rs loss on diesel. this won't make it a loss, right?
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Old 31st January 2012, 13:34   #163
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by rejoycjohn View Post

For the diesel cars , I cannot agree it . As per the report given in TOI , they say out of the total consumption of diesel in our country diesel cars only correspond to 0.6% !! And this is a report given out by the planning commission !
Ref :- Personal cars account for 0.6% of India's diesel consumption - The Times of India
Yes, the very same planning commission which said Rs32-40 is minimum earning for moving above BPL.

Add to that the news from ToI. You need to take not just with a pinch of salt, but with buckets of salt when the news are from these paper

I think we should also see the "rate of increase" that is happening (if so) and plan to handle it. Not just wait and get in to deeper trouble once its beyond control.

As other mentioned, the best thing a Govt can do is to IMPROVE the public transport. Will they?

Whichever be the vehicle, the private owner are taxed from all side - Road tax, Tolls, Sales Tax, Cess, surcharge and what not???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbokick View Post
Bills?
I will attach my personal diesel car fuel bills with the concerned person and will get my share of return illegally.
In a country blessed with black money making skills this will just add a feather to the cap.
Now a days every thing is tied to PAN. Even if you provide rental proof, you are suppose to provide the PAN number of the owner. This is just a start. So, in the long run, people who rent out and do not show it will be easily traced.

In your case, of-course you can find ways to do illegal things. In India its possible. And I agree we,as an end user are smarter in spoiling the system more than refining the system. But it do not mean it will stay forever.

How long do you think it will take to make it compulsory to have bills with Reg number only to be honoured?

Even that can be altered? yes. But it will become a never ending argument.

lets take this example.

I still remember when PC got the policy to have PAN number for any transaction above 50K.

We are smart to take / deposit amounts of 49K several times.

Again system was refined saying there is a max slab of transaction you can do in a month. Beyond that you need to pay a transaction fees. Be it s small or huge depending on the bank. So, this will continue.

Doesn't it change the way black money is handled? Ofcourse, its not "eliminated" but certainly reduced.

Last edited by mjothi : 31st January 2012 at 13:42.
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Old 31st January 2012, 14:12   #164
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

not to offend anyone, but why do all petrolheads cry about diesel prices, ppl who can afford diesel cars are buying them, period. If govt. makes 2 separate prices for private and commercial that means more money for regulating them to prevent bribe and black. They should rather have a policy on car companies that a car less that particular length cannot have diesel engine, so like only sedans or above get diesel.

Many ppl would go for hybrids and CNG if they are viable, subsidized and no long lines to fill up. The only other option is to increase public transport by leaps and bounds and alternative transport (bicycle lanes with no encroachment) to reduce overall pressure of cars.

The only word needed is majorily regulation. I drive both diesel and petrol, and i do not cry over petrol being compared with diesel, the point is simple, no one forced you to buy a petrol car you could have gone for CNG, LPG or even diesel.

Last edited by Mindgrinder : 31st January 2012 at 14:13.
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Old 31st January 2012, 16:42   #165
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

Sometimes people forget, that not 100% of crude oil is imported, some 30% is produced in the country, but the govt charges same import+duty+state duty+additional duty+road cess+education cess++++ even for that domestic refined oil. Imagine the profit that they make on this 30%. Again everyone is quiet about that.
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