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Old 14th June 2012, 20:57   #331
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by mail4ajo View Post
I hope they can make this simple. Luxury cars should be taxed and cars below a certain cost should be spared.

A person who can afford a high luxury car can certainly afford expensive fuel and also a few lakhs more as excise too. Why should they get subsidized fuel meant to run the country? It doesnt make any sense. Most high end cars are only coming in diesel today. Petrol is an option while it was vice versa a few years ago.

By paying higher excise on diesel cars, the rich can help to reduce the petrol prices. Note: I am not anti-rich. Dont flame me for this.
Subsidy is always hijacked by the Middle class - the world over.!!
Based on our last year's usage we have received a subsidy, over our 2 petrol fuelled cars, of around Rs. 6000. Now we don't need that subsidy - I frankly would prefer better service lesser adulteration @ the pump. We try & fill up with Shell whenever possible, but the stations are few & far between. I keep commenting to our Gardener & Servant Maid(who do not have vehicles) that they & a couple of other poor people are suffering higher than normal inflation to give me 6000 in petrol subsidy & another 6000 in LPG subsidy. And what an amount it would be if we were running around in Diesel cars.!!!

As for taxes, well I am able to claim depreciation on one car ( could do it for both - but did not as the Fusion was a gift from my Dad to Mom). So effectively I adjust the taxes against income etc. etc. My Driver does not have that Luxury & he has to pay full market price for his petrol while all the rich people are running around in their subsidised diesel cars. Does not make sense at all.


All classical Economics theory indicates that broad based subsidies, when you are running fiscal & current account deficits, will have a dispropotionate effect on the inflation trajectory. In our case the capital a/c & current a/c (trade) deficits are also contributing to a one way weakening of the rupee.

I have been tracking the rupee from 8 to a dollar & with petrol @ 7 Rs/ltr. to now where the USD is 56 to the rupee & petrol is 80/ltr.

Be prepared for 7-10% inflation per year & a 5% depreciation of the rupee annually unless we bring our budget deficits in line.
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Old 14th June 2012, 22:31   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mail4ajo
I hope they can make this simple. Luxury cars should be taxed and cars below a certain cost should be spared.

A person who can afford a high luxury car can certainly afford expensive fuel and also a few lakhs more as excise too. Why should they get subsidized fuel meant to run the country? It doesnt make any sense. Most high end cars are only coming in diesel today. Petrol is an option while it was vice versa a few years ago.

By paying higher excise on diesel cars, the rich can help to reduce the petrol prices. Note: I am not anti-rich. Dont flame me for this.
Very communistic point of view I must say. Tax the rich and give to the poor.
Unfortunately, here it will be tax the middle class salaried people and entrepreneurs and feed the politicos and other vultures.
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Old 14th June 2012, 22:51   #333
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This govt is simply at its best. They screwed telecom sector (vodafone case in particular), thencame aviation and now is the turn of Auto sector.
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Old 14th June 2012, 23:43   #334
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Very communistic point of view I must say. Tax the rich and give to the poor.
Unfortunately, here it will be tax the middle class salaried people and entrepreneurs and feed the politicos and other vultures.
I just said the rich can afford more taxes. I think this is the only way to remove subsidies on fuel. The subsidies are killing and I am paying for it directly or indirectly. Why should I pay for rich guy's fuel?

Differential pricing for consumer and commercial use will not work in India, so how else can this be tackled? Any suggestion?

Last edited by mail4ajo : 14th June 2012 at 23:47.
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Old 14th June 2012, 23:48   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mail4ajo
I just said the rich can afford more taxes. I think this is the only way to remove subsidies on fuel. The subsidies are killing. Differential pricing for consumer and commercial use will not work in India, so how else can this tackled? Any suggestion?
Reduce the wicked taxes on the fuel. Bring them to parity and keep the prices for both Petrol and Diesel at about 60 Rs. There will be rumblings and grumblings but you cant make an omelette without breaking eggs!
Comes to that, going by your view, why cant agriculture be taxed? At least let all the richer farmers pay taxes based on their income from the produce. Let only the poor farmer be exempt!
Boss, this is our country and with the singular lack of political and bureaucratic will, none of these sensible economic policies will ever be implemented. What we require is a good dose of army + corporate rule for the next 20 to 30 years. We need discipline, national pride and unity above all else. These three virtues are singularly lacking in us today!
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Old 15th June 2012, 00:46   #336
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Ive an all petrol garage and possibly thats not going to change in the near future. But that doesnt mean im rich enough to pay the skyrocketing petrol prices. Ive no disposable income. And ive started to walk and travel by bus and auto. This is how im coping.

Why i dont want diesel prices to change or removal of subsidy is because of the feudal system of governance we have in our country. Every level wants something for their pocket. Today if they increase the prices of diesel dont expect them to subsidise the food prices.
What we are forgetting is petrol or diesel is not going to keep us alive but food will. Even with low diesel prices, the cost of onions and tomatoes etc are at an all time high. The cost of fruits is just ridiculous. Now when you eat a mango you feel oh im eating 20 rs note.
If they remove subsidies these essential items will also increase in price. Neither the government wants FDI nor does it want to move in a progressive manner to remove all the problems of the Indian economy. Now noone wants to invest in the Indian economy. And we as Indians will therefore be continues to be treated condescendingly across the world.

Had they not been so myopic a few years back and had removed subsidy that time probably today we wouldnt have a lowest gdp 5.3% nor would the rupee fall to 56 for a dollar. The tendency to attract the vote banks with subsidy and other schemes only are going to hamper the country's development. Period.

I say remove subsidy, remove excess taxes on fuels, monitor all schemes directly but most important of all be selfless and devoted truly to the people than to the wallet.

Jai Hind!!

Last edited by Parthasarathig : 15th June 2012 at 00:54.
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Old 15th June 2012, 02:01   #337
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by mail4ajo View Post
I just said the rich can afford more taxes. I think this is the only way to remove subsidies on fuel. The subsidies are killing and I am paying for it directly or indirectly. Why should I pay for rich guy's fuel?

Differential pricing for consumer and commercial use will not work in India, so how else can this be tackled? Any suggestion?
My friend, if the someone's worked their way up real hard and is now rich, you think taxing them more will resolve the problem?

The govt is only getting more votes to constantly increase diesel car prices and taxes and finally based on more such comments from common people like you and me will end up removing the subsidy also one day. Trust me thats not going to solve any problem! It will just give you a phsycological boost that now the guy filling diesel in his car besides us will also pay the same amount as us, but will that reduce the cost of petrol which has already increased? Will it ensure that it doesn't increase further?

I think we need to ask ourselves these questions before we raise our voices on these issues. I read in the news papers that the govt plans to increase taxes on diesel cars further because most petrol owners are voicing their displeasure on why diesel is cheaper. I'm not sure if they are fighting for the pertol being costly or the diesel being cheap?

Please note, i don't intend to be personal with you or anyone, but it's just my point of veiw!
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Old 15th June 2012, 07:14   #338
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Does anyone have the percentage for the Passenger cars/vehicles using diesel engines so that we can know how the government wants to ease the burden.

I am pretty sure it would not be more than 10% or maybe less and the rest being used by Govt as public transportation or the likes.

To cover up or make up for the losses, the government wants to Tax Petrol car owners which is wrong and also Diesel car owners who already have paid a premium upfront .

Whats stopping the government from addressing how to minimise or cutting down on diesel dependency. They can still start off with some mid term to long term plan where they can look at deregulation of prices in a phased manner. Where will all this knee jerk reactions lead to.
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Old 15th June 2012, 09:18   #339
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by Karan1981 View Post
My friend, if the someone's worked their way up real hard and is now rich, you think taxing them more will resolve the problem?
He is not asking to tax rich more. He is saying that rich people shouldn't be getting diesel subsidized.
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Old 15th June 2012, 10:02   #340
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

So .. the government and all related bodies should now ideally stop buying diesel cars. Why don't they buy only petrol cars, thus contributing themselves to reducing the quantum of diesel consumed in the country
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Old 15th June 2012, 10:56   #341
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

mail4ajo, while I do understand that the intent behind your idea is good, the problem with that is :
1) Identifying who is rich. How do you define rich ? As it is, the middle-class have spread all over the place to encompass everyone in the near vicinity.
2) Rich need not necessarily buy a Merc. What if the rich is using a Swift ZDi ?
3) Perception from where one is standing : Just like you think of a Merc guy as rich compared to a Swift-owner, the poor guy at the bottom of the pyramid, who drives only a petrol-bike (cannot even think of affording a car) would think in the same vein as "Why should I be subsidising the fuel for the rich guy who drives a Swift-D/Figo-D/Polo-D/Punto-D/Linea-D/Dzire-D ? They are richer than him in comparison, right.

Ideally, the best way would be to junk the subsidy on diesel so that diesel is priced a Re or two more than petrol like it is in other countries. This would not need adding extra tax to a Merc or a Swift and car-cos are happy, petrol-cars owners wont crib, subsidy business is over etc. Only problem is that truckers will jack up transportation charges for all goods which will result in all round inflation. Most of us here would still have no issues, but think of the guys earning a few thousands every month. For them it would be about basic subsistence (food), unlike us where it is just a few % increase in transportation cost for fuel. So throwing out subsidies is a no-go.

Another view point was about removing the tax on fuels and we should be OK.
Indeed that should solve the problem. But governments need tax for doing their work. Ofcourse it is debatable whether they are using it for public good or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karan1981
I'm not sure if they are fighting for the pertol being costly or the diesel being cheap?
Dont know about others, but for me it is about diesel being priced too cheap for those that can afford it. A guy buying a Swift_D for 8+ lakhs can surely afford to buy diesel at ~70 like what the Swift-P guy pays for petrol. And ofcourse goes without saying that the Merc guy can surely pay for it. I have seen the price of petrol rise from Rs9 when I started driving to 76 today at Chennai. I have no issues with its price - I can afford it and so use it. If a day comes when it is priced out of my affordability, I will either cut my usage or sell the car off and use public transport.

While I hate the diesel clatter/maintenance and would almost never buy a diesel car, one thing about diesel that I like is its efficiency (more kms per litre vs petrol). So, as one of my colleagues says, "if more people use diesel, then the efficiency is more and this would reduce India's crude import". And if all those people pay the unsubsidised cost for diesel, that would be amazing. Now, I am dreaming of the impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan
What we require is a good dose of army + corporate rule for the next 20 to 30 years. We need discipline, national pride and unity above all else. These three virtues are singularly lacking in us today!
We all know where our neighbour is today with Army at the helm. God forbid, something like that happens in India. Regarding the 3 virtues, those cannot be drilled in using the gun, but has to come from within. How many of us here can claim to be disciplined in our personal/public/professional life and can claim we think of India as one in spirit, without getting compartmentalised due to politics/caste/religion/trade/affiliation etc ?

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 15th June 2012 at 11:04.
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Old 15th June 2012, 11:11   #342
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Percentage of taxes already takes care of the amount one pays as taxes.

What is lacking in our country is governance, policy making and corruption. Also, add coalition politics, blackmailing and allocation of funds giving in to these.
Take care of these and we don't have to tax some of our commodities as much as we do.

Until then its a loop and they have to tax heavily where they can recover efficiently, everyone is affected with poor more.
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Old 15th June 2012, 11:22   #343
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

@srishiva, you are right. But if you go deeper into why governance is bad, don't you think we are at a level responsible since we are the ones who selected these idiots to power ? And aren't we the ones that quietly pay the bribe instead of standing up against it, so that we can quickly get over the bother and get back to our family/work ?
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Old 15th June 2012, 11:33   #344
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
@srishiva, you are right. But if you go deeper into why governance is bad, don't you think we are at a level responsible since we are the ones who selected these idiots to power ? And aren't we the ones that quietly pay the bribe instead of standing up against it, so that we can quickly get over the bother and get back to our family/work ?
Yes, we are responsible. We look for short term solutions and easy way out of everything. Taxing fuel is a similar one for the govt. Afterall, We, the people are same.

Atleast here in TBHP, we are trying with others experience and encouragement on getting some things done the right way. (we also argue like hell as seen in the closed 180 page thread )

Last edited by srishiva : 15th June 2012 at 11:36.
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Old 15th June 2012, 11:44   #345
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

I just received a call from my Maruti SA about my Swift ZDi booking. My delivery was due around October, but the SA had called to 'warn' about possible increase in diesel car prices by 1.5 lacs.

I was surprised to suddenly hear a different story from these Maruti SAs now. Earlier they were saying "no stocks, please wait for 7-8 months". Today he said "we have 1 car in stock for you, if you are willing to clear the money and take delivery this week, you will escape the price hike. Think about it sir". Seems like a smart movie by Maruti dealers - make as much money as possible by clearing backlogs now threatening owners about the price hike . And how come they suddenly have a Torque Blue ZDi in stock when it was not expected until October?

I told him this is just a proposal and it won't see the light of the day immediately. To this he replies "No sir. It will come soon, if not 1.5 lacs it will be increased by 50k at least".

I'll visit the dealer, speak to him in person and try to get more details about this fiasco. Will update this thread later in the evening if I get any more information.

Last edited by KarthikK : 15th June 2012 at 11:46.
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