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Old 15th June 2012, 12:05   #346
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

@KarthikK, I am sure there is some game the dealer is playing using the 1.5lakh warning, but am not able to understand what it is. Delivery was restricted due to demand exceeding supply - so not sure how they can clear backlogs suddenly.

BTW, if you had booked for blue Zdi and are getting it now instead of Oct, it is good for you, right ?

EDIT : BTW, funny coincidence that my sis called just now and said that BIL got a call from MSIL dealer saying Swift-LDI is available off the shelf. Earlier they were quoting long waiting. Not sure what the dealers are upto.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 15th June 2012 at 12:35.
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Old 15th June 2012, 12:08   #347
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

^^ The Swift Zdi costs what...around 7.5 lacs OTR, Delhi. Right? If this ridiculous tax plan gets a nod someday, it'd cost around or more than 9 lac. 9 lac for a Swift!!

Phew! the other day (on some other thread) we were discussing how some of us are ready to shell out 10 lac for a hot-hatch! Seems the government has taken it in wrong faith.

Once again the middle class is on the brink of being screwed by this government. Buy a petrol and die everyday or buy a diesel and die once!
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Old 15th June 2012, 12:49   #348
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
What we require is a good dose of army + corporate rule for the next 20 to 30 years. We need discipline, national pride and unity above all else. These three virtues are singularly lacking in us today!
Army rule is debatable. That will not instill any of the three virtues you state we require within the next two generations at least.

Sorry, but corporate rule is laughable. What can we expect from corporates who have little to no ethics when coming to even micro things like promotions and appraisals?

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Originally Posted by Parthasarathig View Post
But that doesnt mean im rich enough to pay the skyrocketing petrol prices. Ive no disposable income. And ive started to walk and travel by bus and auto. This is how im coping.
Thats true. Our savings have just disappeared and people who were saving upto half of their salary even as recent as 2 years ago are finding it difficult to sustain with existing incomes. Now, everyone is looking for onsite opportunities to earn more.

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
@srishiva, you are right. But if you go deeper into why governance is bad, don't you think we are at a level responsible since we are the ones who selected these idiots to power ?
Do you think our vote really matters? I see truckloads of people being brought in during elections. If I go and vote my name is not on the list and I am asked to go somewhere else. It has become a fashion to blame the middle class fellow for not voting the correct candidate. Tell me something, even if I get the opportunity to vote, which candidate is worth supporting? Even if he is an independent candidate and gets elected, his allegiance will be bought after the elections.
And if you say I should be a candidate, then which of you is going to vote for me?
Sorry but its just convenient for the media and its dog to blame the middle class fellow for everything. And say he is responsible. If he is responsible for everything, why doesnt he get the benefits accordingly?

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
Seems like a smart movie by Maruti dealers - make as much money as possible by clearing backlogs now threatening owners about the price hike . And how come they suddenly have a Torque Blue ZDi in stock when it was not expected until October?
It seems lke panic has set in for the dealers as they have lots of stock and they want to get it cleared before any such hike. If it is put in place, who in their right frame of mind would buy a diesel car?

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
BTW, funny coincidence that my sis called just now and said that BIL got a call from MSIL dealer saying Swift-LDI is available off the shelf. Earlier they were quoting long waiting. Not sure what the dealers are upto.
This only shows that most of the shortage and waiting periods have been stage managed. Perhaps in some cases to earn premium from some people who were desperate enough to get it sooner. I have heard of at least 2 definite cases where this has happened.

I say deregulate diesel and for transporting community, provide returns for their income tax filings based on diesel they use.

Last edited by noopster : 15th June 2012 at 18:44. Reason: As requested
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Old 15th June 2012, 13:05   #349
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

This extra tax will fill politicians' pockets all the more. And that money will be used by Politicians' spoilt brat sons to buy Nissan 370Zs, Hayabusas, Nissan skyline GTRs or something like that. They will then fill petrol in those cars and go drag racing at midnight . Sorry for this rant, but that is what is already happening with tax payers' hard earned money.

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
@KarthikK, I am sure there is some game the dealer is playing using the 1.5lakh warning, but am not able to understand what it is. Delivery was restricted due to demand exceeding supply - so not sure how they can clear backlogs suddenly.

BTW, if you had booked for blue Zdi and are getting it now instead of Oct, it is good for you, right ?

EDIT : BTW, funny coincidence that my sis called just now and said that BIL got a call from MSIL dealer saying Swift-LDI is available off the shelf. Earlier they were quoting long waiting. Not sure what the dealers are upto.
Yeah it is good for me in a way. Only problem is I am not prepared to buy it before September - October. If I buy immediately, my loan amount will increase, while in October, I can make more down-payment (expecting some bonus) and reduce the loan burden . This is only swapping my current ZXi so I'm not in any hurry anyway.

Anyway, like you said about your sister getting the call too, seems like dealers are playing with this waiting period thing. Now they know they can push a few extra cars by scaring consumers about this hike.

What I do not understand is how they magically have stocks now, when 1 week ago they were refusing any delivery requests for lesser than 6-8 months.

EDIT : My friend who booked a red ZDi (delivery date december) also got a call saying his car has arrived and he can avoid the extra tax by taking now. His dealer is different from mine, so I suspect all Maruti dealers are playing around with this tax scare.

Last edited by KarthikK : 15th June 2012 at 13:14.
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Old 15th June 2012, 13:19   #350
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

^^^Same for my BIL's friend whose booked-and-waiting-for-months VDi is now magically available immediately. Again this is a dealer in TVM - BIL got a call from QLN dealer.

So all this time these morons were playing around with made-up waiting lists ? Even if it were so, MSIL would have known given they are the supplier. So was MSIL also hand in glove with these guys to rig up waiting lists ?

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Originally Posted by selfdrive
Sorry, but corporate rule is laughable. What can we expect from corporates who have little to no ethics
Indeed after the Radia tapes, I have lost respect for some of the so-called ethical titans of the industry. Corporates work for their own benefit always - not for public good.

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Originally Posted by selfdrive
Do you think our vote really matters? I see truckloads of people being brought in during elections. If I go and vote my name is not on the list and I am asked to go somewhere else. It has become a fashion to blame the middle class fellow for not voting the correct candidate. Tell me something, even if I get the opportunity to vote, which candidate is worth supporting?
It does matter. We might not have a clean candidate available to vote for, but our vote does make a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive
It seems lke panic has set in for the dealers as they have lots of stock and they want to get it cleared before any such hike. If it is put in place, who in their right frame of mind would buy a diesel car?
But it is just a rumour / suggestion / proposal. Will take time to be made into law. So why are the panicking already is what I dont understand.

Last edited by GTO : 16th June 2012 at 09:59. Reason: As per our rules, request to avoid political discussions. Thanks
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Old 15th June 2012, 13:44   #351
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Maybe Maruti is panicking because they have loads of bookings for diesel vehicles so the conveyor belt is already running at the factory in overdrive. And perhaps some bookings are being cancelled at the same time. So they have current stock and anticipate more diesel vehicles to come in.

Its like redlining on 3rd but suddenly realising there is no road ahead.

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
To give you an example from my context, when the last elections happened in TN in 2011, DMK was confident of coming back to power again.
Taking your own example, all that happens is power switches between the two DMKs. in the last 20 years I have only seen these 2 in power there and alternately. only the person looting us changes, nothing else really happens.
anything more I say will be seriously offtopic!

edit: by the way I note that I didnt get an automatic message for being quoted. Is that because the red arrow (after my handle) is missing when you quoted me? mods, how did that happen?

Last edited by selfdrive : 15th June 2012 at 13:47.
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Old 15th June 2012, 15:20   #352
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Another view point was about removing the tax on fuels and we should be OK.
Indeed that should solve the problem. But governments need tax for doing their work. Ofcourse it is debatable whether they are using it for public good or not.

Dont know about others, but for me it is about diesel being priced too cheap for those that can afford it. A guy buying a Swift_D for 8+ lakhs can surely afford to buy diesel at ~70 like what the Swift-P guy pays for petrol. And ofcourse goes without saying that the Merc guy can surely pay for it. I have seen the price of petrol rise from Rs9 when I started driving to 76 today at Chennai. I have no issues with its price - I can afford it and so use it.
With all due respect, allow me to present a differing opinion here. Given that you seem to be glossing over the fact that there is already a hefty amount of tax imposed on both petrol and diesel, diesel at ~ 70 means like taxing it even 2/3 times higher to make sure petrol users feel happier paying an equivalent amount of tax. It seems a bit of a regressive line of thinking. Fuel used in personal cars are absolutely essential for a majority of the middle class and above to arrive at their workplaces in a presentable fashion given the quality and state of public infrastructure. Let's not get even into the fact that how our taxes have been stolen or misspent so much that the government has simply failed to create a proper public infrastructure in place. In the absence of this none of us have an alternative but to use personal vehicles. I hope you agree to that. Now if one had to follow your logic, we should be feeling okay about the way our taxes are stolen instead of being spent for public good and should not be asking questions. Instead we should just keep quiet and take it up our back sides and look for another group of folks among us who we feel apparently are more privileged than us and rant about them. So as the government happily taxes the hell out of these essential fuels for survival we should be happy about using the derelict public infrastructure packed like sardines day in and day out without complaining. Pardon me but that reminds of the return of the British Raj or George Orwell's 1984. I don't know about anybody else but I would rather give up my citizenship and immigrate instead of suffering in silence giving up a certain quality of life that I expect after working so hard and paying my taxes duly while a bunch of scoundrels steal left and right as if it is their mother's pickle jar.

Also please excuse me for not agreeing but I personally have had enough of paying taxes through my nose and not getting any decent public service in return. I drive a diesel car simply because I do not want to play any part in paying more taxes to the government to fatten the individual offshore accounts of politicians. It probably would be your personal choice if you choose to use petrol and continue paying high taxes and getting no returns at all. Since it is your personal choice I think it is a wee bit unfair to drag every diesel car user and make them do the same thing as you do. Imposing additional excise or taxes is the prerogative of the government but they should be ready to face the consequences. Not be a cry baby when they have stupid policy flying around and somehow they come out losers due to those policies.

Well please do not take anything personally . I just wanted to share some candid thoughts I had after going through some of these posts .
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Old 15th June 2012, 15:28   #353
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

I am sorry if this has already been discussed elsewhere. But I have this nagging question: Why are diesel cars priced much higher than their petrol versions? I have a feeling that the manufacturers are just exploiting the situation. Please correct me if I am wrong. But if I am right, then the manufacturers have no right to complain about higher taxes for diesel cars.
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Old 15th June 2012, 16:28   #354
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

@Prakash, I understand diesel engines cost a bit more to manufacture. But I doubt they cost 1lakh more to manufacture. So yes, manufacturers are just capitalising on the cheap diesel prices here. So, even if Govt increases the price of a diesel hatch by 75K, maybe they can give up 50K odd of the extra they were charging till date and bring down the price of diesel cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samarjitdhar
Given that you seem to be glossing over the fact that there is already a hefty amount of tax imposed on both petrol and diesel,
Hefty amount of tax on diesel ? Really ? So if that miniscule amount you pay is hefty, what would you call the tax imposed on petrol ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samarjitdhar
Fuel used in personal cars are absolutely essential for a majority of the middle class and above to arrive at their workplaces in a presentable fashion given the quality and state of public infrastructure.
No one debates this need. And I am sure you will arrive presentable even if the car runs on petrol or if the diesel in your car is priced realistically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samarjitdhar
I don't know about anybody else but I would rather give up my citizenship and immigrate instead of suffering in silence giving up a certain quality of life that I expect after working so hard and paying my taxes duly while a bunch of scoundrels steal left and right as if it is their mother's pickle jar.
I dont think anyone is stopping you. Given that paying maybe 25Rs more per litre of fuel seems to be so much of a distressing situation for you. All of us here pay taxes, hello.

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Originally Posted by samarjitdhar
Since it is your personal choice I think it is a wee bit unfair to drag every diesel car user and make them do the same thing as you do.
When I go to tank up fuel, I dont really crib or even think about the guy who comes to fill in subsidised diesel. So this is not something I have personal against diesel users.

Like your cheeky remark at the end of your post, please dont take this also as personal. Just my candid comments.

Last edited by Eddy : 15th June 2012 at 20:17.
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Old 15th June 2012, 17:14   #355
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Hefty amount of tax on diesel ? Really ? So if that miniscule amount you pay is hefty, what would you call the tax imposed on petrol ?
Well what you proposed like bringing the price of diesel at par with petrol that is about 70 sure calls for hefty taxation. Why don't you ask the government to lower the taxes on petrol?

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
No one debates this need. And I am sure you will arrive presentable even if the car runs on petrol or if the diesel in your car is priced realistically.
Diesel is actually priced realistically while petrol is not. A reason why I nowadays arrive at office not only presentable but in a very peaceful state. The more the petrol price rises, it seems, the lesser state of peacefulness would be with petrolheads at a point when they have to take public transport and stop being presentable also

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I dont think anyone is stopping you. Given that paying maybe 25Rs more per litre of fuel seems to be so much of a distressing situation for you. All of us here pay taxes, hello.
Well I will leave it to the government to extort another Rs 25 in taxes in diesel and then I would take a call. What I don't want is folks who are paying additional taxes voluntarily by buying petrol to make it also mandatory for me to pay those same extra taxes. I am also totally against folks being made to pay those extra taxes because they buy petrol. I sympathize with those who have no option but that doesn't mean I should also go through the same suffering. I would rather help them fight against those unjust taxes. Choosing to suffer would be a pretty communist approach.

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
When I go to tank up fuel, I dont really crib or even think about the guy who comes to fill in subsidised diesel. So this is not something I have personal against diesel users.
Well you might not when you tank up but most of what you have expressed here till now seems that diesel users are cheating by not sharing the pain of the petrol users. This is something similar to the feeling which was expressed in another thread.

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Like your cheeky remark at the end of your post, please dont take this also as personal. Just my candid comments.
Welcome, same to you and peace out .

Last edited by Eddy : 15th June 2012 at 20:17.
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Old 15th June 2012, 17:59   #356
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by samarjitdhar View Post
Well what you proposed like bringing the price of diesel at par with petrol that is about 70 sure calls for hefty taxation. Why don't you ask the government to lower the taxes on petrol?



Diesel is actually priced realistically while petrol is not.
Actually there is already hefty taxation on diesel. But post taxation, the govt subsidizes diesel by issuing bonds which are given to the oil companies.
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Old 15th June 2012, 19:13   #357
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Interesting observations in the past few pages...

I am all against subsidies. But if the diesel subsidy is gone, think of the impact on day to day necessities (e.g.; groceries, public transportation etc.).

Additional tax on diesel cars is not something new. Some other countries do practice it. But I doubt the intentions here, and is actually interested to see the various slabs they come up with. For e.g.; if its only passenger cars, or what kind of passenger cars are included etc.

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
What we require is a good dose of army + corporate rule for the next 20 to 30 years. We need discipline, national pride and unity above all else. These three virtues are singularly lacking in us today!
Not so sure about that. Ask any nationality who have been through army rule, and they will give a true picture of life on the other side. And corporates – When Thaksin Shinawatra came to power in Thailand, he famously declared that he wanted to run the country similar to his Telecom business AIS. Trouble is corporate style means it will invariably become like running a business, and then profits has to come. Unfortunately public realized it only after a good 6 years, and by then he already had made enough to go and buy a premier league football club. That country is a living example of corporate rule failure (followed by army rule).

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edit: by the way I note that I didnt get an automatic message for being quoted. Is that because the red arrow (after my handle) is missing when you quoted me? mods, how did that happen?
OT: The reason is, SB might have replied to your post using the mobile app (iPhone/Android).
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Old 15th June 2012, 19:25   #358
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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I am all against subsidies. But if the diesel subsidy is gone, think of the impact on day to day necessities (e.g.; groceries, public transportation etc.).
Why can they not deregulate diesel, sell it at market price and then give subsidies in terms of returns to these transporters? Or whoever they think deserves it. Maybe they can be given income tax exemption on diesel usage upto a certain extent. And it is not as if prices are low with subsidised fuel. It is high time that we consider weeding out as many levels of middlemen as possible.

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Not so sure about that. Ask any nationality who have been through army rule, and they will give a true picture of life on the other side.
We are way too unruly for any army rule or corporate rule to help us. Revolution is not going to help here. It has to be evolution that will see good effects over the next 3 or 4 generations. Unfortunately we are evolving backwards.

For any immediate effects, there has to be a dictator or a strong leader that puts the political class in their rightful place. Once they stop treating themselves as royalty, everyone in the masses will also behave themselves. Currently the scene is that the politicos are thieves and thugs so I can get away with some thugging of my own.

Applying this in perspective, if all politicians, bureaucrats and govt office holders and their families are told to use public transport as obligatory, then the quality of public transport will also improve by leaps and bounds. They should be banned from using private vehicles unless its a bicycle.

then nobody will talk about levies on such vehicles because essentially public transport will be regular, frequent and safe.

Last edited by selfdrive : 15th June 2012 at 19:27.
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Old 15th June 2012, 19:50   #359
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Why can they not deregulate diesel, sell it at market price and then give subsidies in terms of returns to these transporters? Or whoever they think deserves it. Maybe they can be given income tax exemption on diesel usage upto a certain extent. And it is not as if prices are low with subsidised fuel. It is high time that we consider weeding out as many levels of middlemen as possible.
Not denying that, and thatís why I said in the beginning that I am all against subsidies. What I am saying is, any hike in diesel price (and without subsidies, it will be quite steep), will result in an immediate price hike in day to day necessities. For e.g.; In Kerala a couple of Hartals will be staged, and the minimum rate for public transport will go up by a couple of rupees. Even if the transporters get a subsidy back (or tax benefit), none of these benefits will be passed on to the paying public.

Personally, I would like to see some parity in the sales of Petrol and Diesel cars. It will help in the overall availability of the fuel, and contain pollution to an extent (not denying that some of the modern diesels have lesser CO2 emissions than petrol counterparts).
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Old 15th June 2012, 20:18   #360
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Guys, lets leave out personal remarks / off topic posts. Thanks.

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