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Old 27th November 2012, 08:53   #451
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

and one from SC for Delhi.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/17379351.cms

Quote:
Justifying harsher levy for diesel cars, Salve said in his application, "The market share of diesel cars is more than 50% of sales. This is because of the growing differential between petrol and diesel. The emission norms for diesel cars legally allow higher limits for NOx and particulate matters as compared to petrol cars."
So, does he mean 50% of total "Passenger" vehicles? I guess so.

May be the 2nd suggestion is better, if the motive is really to switch people to Public transport.

Quote:
The former solicitor general, while advocating imposition of 25% of cost of all new diesel cars as green tax, suggested levy of an environmental compensation charge on existing personal vehicles -- ranging from 2% (petrol) to 4% (diesel) of the vehicle's cost every year.
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Old 27th November 2012, 09:19   #452
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

My personal view is that this is not the solution to the problem.
This govt. is tinkering with short term means to address the subsidy problem instead of any long term measures, and we have been hearing of such weird ideas from variety of people over the last two years.

Moreover the automobile lobby is very strong and they would certainly resist any such move from the govt.

Hope better sense prevails and the govt. comes out with any policy to address the issue on a sustainable long term basis.
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Old 27th November 2012, 10:49   #453
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
I think the additional levy to move people away from the more polluting diesel cars is a welcome suggestion. The only reason why diesel cars sell more are due to the subsidy on the fuel, and this subsidy was never meant for private cars in the first place. So, since implementing dual pricing of diesel may not be easy, this one time levy and higher yearly tax is an interesting and viable option.

On the annual levy to encourage people to use public transport, I think the the public transport should be more usable before this happens. Not sure if that is the case already in NCR. But in Bangalore, it is far from it.
Do I use the wonderful Volvo busses? No - they are too crowded during the peak hours.
Will I use the metro once it is completed - I doubt. Getting to the nearest metro station will be quite a task, and then finding a parking there a even bigger task.
So unless the government puts in place a reliable, comfortable public transport like what I have read of in some other countries, it may not be fair of them to force people to use the below standard system by levying extra taxes.
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Old 27th November 2012, 10:59   #454
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Read the news this morning on this subject and this is crazy, here we pay the highest road tax, insurance and fuel cost and now they want to charge this. Neither are our roads in a decent condition, full of pot holes!

I guess this all is going to go in to the government pockets. Mera Bharath Mahan!
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Old 27th November 2012, 11:04   #455
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by Bh.P View Post
I think the additional levy to move people away from the more polluting diesel cars is a welcome suggestion. The only reason why diesel cars sell more are due to the subsidy on the fuel, and this subsidy was never meant for private cars in the first place. So, since implementing dual pricing of diesel may not be easy, this one time levy and higher yearly tax is an interesting and viable option.


On the annual levy to encourage people to use public transport
...
I have read of in some other countries, it may not be fair of them to force people to use the below standard system by levying extra taxes.
The diesel technology has improved over the years that even in the the US with the strictest emission norms you have 50 state compliant diesel engines. The reason why diesel cars sell is because of the mileage which is nearly 60% better under normal conditions and maybe even 100% better if you want similar performance from a petrol. Europeans don't have subsidized diesel yet they buy more diesel today. The fuel pricing strategy is wrong and a yearly tax is simply extortion. Two wrongs won't make a right.

Public transport is hardly part of this new harassment technique, if public transport was good, car sales would automatically tilt towards petrol.

P.S. I just read the FirstPost article about Kirit Parikh's suggestion, absolutely insane numbers being thrown around. The calculation is based on an Suv doing 25000km a year - uses 2000 litres of diesel, which gets 25 Rs/Lt subsidy. 12 Rupees in that is excise which government does not collect, the man thinks if the government doesn't steal your money it can be considered a subsidy.

Last edited by avira_tk : 27th November 2012 at 11:16.
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Old 27th November 2012, 11:06   #456
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

I would read the recent "failure" in getting funds out of the telecom spectrum sale as well as the general bad condition of the deficit as the reason for such a move. Nothing really much to do with the auto industry if you ask me!
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Old 27th November 2012, 11:10   #457
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

I for one, would welcome the parity in pricing between Petrol and Diesel - all Diesel used for Private purposes can be charged at a higher rate.
However, proper, transparent enforcement is absolutely essential, else dirty politicos, real estate devils and other such scum will continue to use the subsidized fuel where regular blokes and tax paying members of the public will be paying the higher price.
If Karnataka Government was sitting quietly collecting Cess and higher road taxes for better infrastructure since the year 2000, then in 2012, where are the results?
If there is a sustainable, clean, hygienic public transport system available with timely services and last mile connectivity, I would certainly use it in preference to driving my car about the city! Our particular climatic conditions and our countrymen's singular lack of personal hygiene and grooming is nowhere more evident than in public transport, including the Volvo buses and Metro trains. For someone who is sensitive to odd odours, it can be an extremely distressing experience.
Lastly, I submit that our country needs a revolution and a proper clean-up job - all the current crop of politicos and other scum should be summarily destroyed, the way they destroy pests by crop spraying!
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Old 27th November 2012, 11:24   #458
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Leaving aparting the diesel price, whatever we buy or a service is already taxed to the hilt. These idiots who are elected are only seeing new ways to tax the middle class to fill up their coffins. By the way the competition betwee the politicos during election is also a reason for them to get greedy as they would have spent more to win the elections.

Whatever the taxation is the middle class is being squeezed maximum
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Old 27th November 2012, 11:28   #459
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Another attempt to kill the aam aadmi. Not only they raise fuel prices they also decide to levy higher tax. I could have understood this anti-pollution campaign in the days of polluting oil-burners, however modern diesels not just are more efficient but also less polluting than their older cousins. Thus the logic seems flawed.

Environmental tax would make sense when the govt. has far a far laxed electric / hybrid vechicle duty structure.
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Old 27th November 2012, 11:33   #460
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

What about used cars, if this sort of thing comes into play.
Just when I was about to start shortlisting my truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
-------------SNIP--------------These idiots who are elected are only seeing new ways to tax the middle class to fill up their coffins.-------------SNIP--------------
If They guarantee utilization, I am willing to fill it up with 97% tax even!!
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Old 27th November 2012, 11:39   #461
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

All this talk of diesel cars sales is just an excuse ... out of the total diesel consumption in the country - how much is the % consumed by passenger vehicles? Last I checked it was <5% (it was from a website ... cant find it right now).

The real reason is that govt is in fiscal mess due to inability manage its own expenses (I blame it on 6th pay commission) and finds that the middle class as easiest to manipulate.
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Old 27th November 2012, 11:51   #462
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

A few points:
Firstly, if both Petrol & Diesel cars are conforming to BS IV emission norms, how can the Diesel be branded as "more polluting"?
Secondly, since a diesel engine is inherently more fuel efficient than a petrol engine, the pollution per km actually turns out to be lower for a diesel vehicle.
Thirdly, if environment is truly the concern, then show me the steps being taken to develop, import or promote alternate technologies like electric/ hydrogen fuel cell/ hybrid cars. Why is the Govt not taking any concrete steps in this regard? Is the powerful oil lobby at work here?
Fourthly, is the extra tax being imposed just a deterrent to buy diesel cars? How will all that extra money be used to clean up the environment? Any planning involved there? Probably not.
Fifthly, the taxes in India are already so high compared to most countries that they make up half the cost of manufacturing the car. This has led to the manufacturers skimping on providing the essential safety features on cars. Additionally, the build quality of cars Made-in-India/ Made-for-India is pathetic as compared to the cars Made-for-Export. Adding on to the taxes will further lead to further erosion of quality and value.
Just my two cents.
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Old 27th November 2012, 11:52   #463
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Removing all subsidies is fine by me, but talk of charging extra taxes from Diesel car owners is insane. A person does not necessarily buy a diesel vehicle today just for the price differential but also for the fuel effeciency and power/ torque which is essential for heavy vehicles.

To give a a basic and approximate example the Petrol safari had about 120 BHP @ about 5-6kmpl and obviously hence was discontinued the Diesel safari had 140 BHP power @about 10-11kmpl with even better torque figures which are essential for moving a heavy vehicle in traffic. Would one not buy the diesel varient even if the pricing of petrol and diesel fuel were the same.
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Old 27th November 2012, 12:04   #464
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

The long term solution is not even the removal of subsidy, IMO.

How many of our cities have a good public transport system, which is comfortable, and not over crowded at the same time ? The buses in almost all our cities are beyond terrible, they are noisy, clunky and we see people hanging on to each others underwear in Mumbai local trains.

If you visit some of the cities and even towns outside India, especially in Europe, you will see what a difference a well developed mass transit system can make to traffic. In Rome for example, a citizen has the option of either underground metrorail or trams or buses. All of which are top class, Air conditioned services running like clockwork.

If you had access to superb mass transit connecting every nook and corner of Pune or Bangalore, for example, would you be inclined to drive all the way from one end of the crowded city to another ? I very much doubt it.

Adding another tax is just one more way of skirting the governments responsibility
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Old 27th November 2012, 12:10   #465
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Nothing like this is going to happen, it's just another round of 'blah-blah' and an attempt to boost up sales for Tata-Mahindra-diesel engine lobby.

this reasoning seems more valid
Quote:
All this talk of diesel cars sales is just an excuse ... out of the total diesel consumption in the country - how much is the % consumed by passenger vehicles? Last I checked it was <5% (it was from a website ... cant find it right now).

The real reason is that govt is in fiscal mess due to inability manage its own expenses (I blame it on 6th pay commission) and finds that the middle class as easiest to manipulate.
but then you kill industry. Anything they do is going to finish off something or the other, either demand or industrial growth will be finished off. Now industry has it's long tentacles well into the govt, so it's obvious that they can not mess with industry.
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