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Old 27th November 2012, 12:25   #466
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
This is indeed a good step in my opinion.
Government can also think about imposing yearly taxes on Diesel Cars. The easiest way to do this is through the insurance companies.

I was watching the news and in-fact Delhi govt. plans (proposed) to impose yearly tax on both Diesel as well as petrol cars.
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Old 27th November 2012, 12:29   #467
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
I would read the recent "failure" in getting funds out of the telecom spectrum sale as well as the general bad condition of the deficit as the reason for such a move. Nothing really much to do with the auto industry if you ask me!
LOL. Exactly my words. Suddenly this sensitivity towards the environment accompanied with shedding of crocodile tears while forest cover is rapidly depleting because of release of more protected land for mining and industry, as if all of us are fools and cannot see through the double game. Here the government with its holier than thou attitude in front of the SC is making out as if public transportation services have improved by leaps and bound. Even folks in the NCR can probably comment on how it is if they are not covered by the metro.

Apart from NCR what about the other cities? How about the miserable record of building the road network by NHAI? From what I understand they have not even met about 10% of their daily target. Instead the government creates these red herrings which help them get the support of some of the more myopic environmental groups joining the bandwagon instead of creating any realistic transportation solutions.

The worry is with the SC getting involved, like the ill thought out sun film ban, we might suddenly get some new dictat about shelling more money out for running our cars, be it petrol or diesel which will do nothing but fund more scams for the government. Grand green initiatives announced by the government will remain pipe dreams forever. Make an RTI request on the non-performance of the government in the transport sector would surely be met with blank responses or obfuscation.
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Old 27th November 2012, 12:58   #468
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

On the other side upgrading the power plants and providing reasonable electricity will bring down the usage of Diesel generators which results in lesser diesel consumption.

Government encourage industries to set up plants on Tax-free norms and indirectly levy high taxes, these double standards are not acceptable, instead promote/encourage Auto industries which concentrate on hydrogen fuel cell/ hybrid or electric cars?

Government should work on a solution instead of just levying taxes and increasing the burden on end users.

JC
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Old 27th November 2012, 13:03   #469
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

25% tax of the cost of the vehicle. This is not going to be implemented in this lifetime, so i wouldn't worry about that. 2-4% tax each year as green tax and so as to move people to public transport? I am sorry but -

- what public transport?
- to avoid paying this tax, I have to sell my car. So who's going to buy them if no one wants to pay this tax?

There are so many ways of implementing better schemes but you can trust them to come up with some half baked scheme. And how does this take care of countless high end societies using DGs for back up power?

Just to throw in a number, the society in which my parents live has at most 500 apartments. The main DG there is as large as a full sized truck with a capacity of 1000 KVA (IIRC). This DG under full load (peak summer) consumes about 60L of diesel per hour. Anyone who lives in Gurgaon would know how long power cuts are (as 8-10 hours). That's about 5000L of diesel per day for a few months in the summer.

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Originally Posted by rednikhil View Post
A few points:
Firstly, if both Petrol & Diesel cars are conforming to BS IV emission norms, how can the Diesel be branded as "more polluting"?
Secondly, since a diesel engine is inherently more fuel efficient than a petrol engine, the pollution per km actually turns out to be lower for a diesel vehicle.
Diesel while more fuel efficient has higher emission of NOx and other suspended particulate. Petrol has more CO2 emissions but much lower NOx and suspended particulate. Add to it that even the ULSD (which is IIRC included as part BS-IV fuel norms), still has a sulphur content which is about 5-6 times higher than that sold in western world (source: an article read in TOI long time back).

You could say that emission norms should be changed to comply to lower these pollutants but that runs into problem from 2 sides - auto lobby (will increase cost) and probably, more expensive fuel (from probably increased refining cost - just a guess).

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Originally Posted by PuntoMania View Post
The long term solution is not even the removal of subsidy, IMO.
Removal of subsidy is the best long term solution. Any useful project has to be self-sustainable. Subsiding things cannot continue endlessly.

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Originally Posted by PuntoMania View Post
Adding another tax is just one more way of skirting the governments responsibility
I have had many arguments with my wife/colleagues and a few even with my parents about this. This probably is not the place to debate it so I will keep it to one line - we cannot blame the government for each and everything. After all we chose them (by choosing to vote or not vote), and we must make the effort to keep them in line.
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Old 27th November 2012, 13:11   #470
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Govt needs money to distribute among the poor. I do not remember the exact scheme name but its something like the money will directly be transferred to the poor people account on the basis of AADHAR card.

Govt wants vote. How they will get vote? Most of the times, by distributing money among the people. Earlier it was done by the political parties in their respective state's election, but not allowed by planing commission.

Now, coming 2014 elections, it'll be done by the center, for the center. So, they need money to distribute among the poor.

This is extra expense for the govt. By extra expense, they i mean, they do not actually care for these people. And the money..where they'll get it from? of course from us.. from middle income group, high income group.. Reason..because middle/high income group does not vote, we know only to pay taxes.. So, we are non-existent for govt. Its sooo simple.

We'll crib for a few days and then we'll forget.. In 2013, govt will give a popularistic budget, our take home will increase, we'll be happpy.. to not go and vote.. this is the sad truth..

What will happen next is , 2014, govt comes back to power..middle class spending is increased, they have more money, inflation increases, govt puts cap on everything.. cycle ended.. same cycle will again happen in next 3-4 years..
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Old 27th November 2012, 14:21   #471
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Am not a fan of diesel-guzzling SUVs and neither am I for subsidized diesel for private vehicles, but I do think that this proposed "diesel-tax" is not a good idea right now.

Like many other people have already pointed out, let us have a really usable public transport system in place first, complete with last-mile connectivity, and only then let us propose taxes and other financial disincentives for those people who still choose to use more inefficient means of transport, even with the availability of such a public transport system.

But till such a system materializes, taxing car owners more does not make any sense. Instead, can the authorities speed up the work on the precious few mass transport system projects in place instead of dithering on decisions that need to be taken to complete them?! For example, if the judiciary seems to be ready to take "hard" decisions on this diesel-tax, why can't they take similarly hard decisions on other pertinent issues that will restore the IG Airport-Metro link, or say, the issue of constant delays to completing the Bangalore Metro?!

Give me even a semi-decent public transport system and I will gladly stop using my own vehicle. I would rather not deal with the numerous idiots on the road if I really had an alternative that would get me to work and back in a reasonable amount of time and looking somewhat presentable!
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Old 27th November 2012, 15:51   #472
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Absolutely ridiculous this call for 25% upfront tax & 2%,4% yearly tax on people who use there own private cars. If this gets implemented, it would again axe the usual aam aadmi. I would have no choice but to give that 4% tax year after year, since i am pretty sure that the Public Transport (Which the government wants people to use) is going to be un-usable for a pretty decent amount of time which i can foresee.

I mean there is no feasible way to reach my office from my residence apart from my own vehicle. The distance between my office & residence is a mere 17.5-18KMs, still all means of making me reach office in a "cost-efficient" manner take anywhere between 1.5-2 hours, not to mention the mad mad crowd that i would have to endure if use those means of public transport.

I take somewhere between 35-45 minutes in my one-way travel. Assuming that it takes me about 85 minutes for my daily commute, and had there been a feasible public transport which would have given me an end to end connectivity (probably even in a vicinity of about 1.5-2Kms) and would have made me reach from my residence to my home in say even 1 hour, which translates to about 120 minutes of travel, and if this extra 35 minutes of daily travel time would save me about 3-4K per month (not to mention the whole-lot of headache and stress that one has to undergo during a normal weekday drive to & from office in Delhi) then who in the world would want to travel by there own vehicle. Definitely not me !!

This Government may well bring this rule into play soon for the sake of there fortunes in the 2014 polls, but this rule will do nothing but fill the coffers of those govt. officials who would be collecting those 2-4% tax every year.
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Old 27th November 2012, 16:06   #473
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by samarjitdhar View Post
Make an RTI request on the non-performance of the government in the transport sector would surely be met with blank responses or obfuscation.
Blame is always collectively passed so in the end no one is held accountable.
In terms of a balancing accounts, there are two ways to reconcile an account. Increase income or reduce expenses. For some reason, our govt. is hell bent on exploring only the income part. why dont they ever think of reducing their own expenses. There are too many white elephants being fed too much caviar. These need to be let loose in the wild to fend for themselves. after all if they have assets in crores why can they not pay for their own travel/ security/ accomodation/ phone calls?

I have had enough of paying up to cover the burgeoning costs of the political elite and their chamchas (translated: sycophants)

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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
Just to throw in a number, the society in which my parents live has at most 500 apartments. The main DG there is as large as a full sized truck with a capacity of 1000 KVA (IIRC). This DG under full load (peak summer) consumes about 60L of diesel per hour. Anyone who lives in Gurgaon would know how long power cuts are (as 8-10 hours). That's about 5000L of diesel per day for a few months in the summer.
Thats only 10L of diesel per day per apartment. Not bad I would say! A one way trip from Delhi to Agra every day in the summer.

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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
I have had many arguments with my wife/colleagues and a few even with my parents about this. This probably is not the place to debate it so I will keep it to one line - we cannot blame the government for each and everything. After all we chose them (by choosing to vote or not vote), and we must make the effort to keep them in line.
yes we can and we should blame the government. Do you and I have any better options? We have elected different parties but once they are in power they are all the same. It is a media created monster to point fingers at the common man accusing him of not doing much. In fact the only thing that I think we are guilty of, is not sparking a revolution. But we all convince ourselves that its out of our capacity/ ability to do that. Or someone in family will do the convincing for us. And we get busy paying out enormous home loans and excessive taxes so that the aforesaid white elephants can feed themselves to obesity and stash away enough money and land for their next 7 descendants. who will then roam around in white SUVs while we are made to feel guilty about driving around our diesel hatchback.
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Old 27th November 2012, 16:09   #474
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Why cant the govt handle these issues with help from experts and courts handle the millions of cases that we have got pending?

I am not sure if pollution or the subsidy is the major grouse here. For emissions we should set a time table to bring petrol and diesel on par. The auto companies are already on course towards it and is not difficult.

Regarding subsidy, start at the source i.e the fuel and forget the cars.

Last edited by srishiva : 27th November 2012 at 16:11.
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Old 27th November 2012, 16:13   #475
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by turbo_delight View Post
Govt needs money to distribute among the poor. I do not remember the exact scheme name but its something like the money will directly be transferred to the poor people account on the basis of AADHAR card.
You are bit wrong in using terms. Govt needs 'investments' for votes so that they can win another jackpot (elections) and fill their coffers for 5 years. I do not wish to speak on another scam you mentioned above but I am damn sure that they do not even think any good for common man. All the schemes, policies or actions are meant to increase the fund flow to personal accounts only.

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Originally Posted by Prodigyy View Post
I would have no choice but to give that 4% tax year after year, since i am pretty sure that the Public Transport (Which the government wants people to use) is going to be un-usable for a pretty decent amount of time which i can foresee. ......................
Absolutely! Instead of planning for long terms and improving the public transport system, they just want to put extra burden on common man. They completely ignored the planning front and will always find ways to suck our bloods to cover up their failures.
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Old 27th November 2012, 18:12   #476
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Thumbs down Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

Please refrain from making politically biased statements - it looks like coming from a opposition and/or kejriwal's circus member not from t-bhpian. There is NO verdict from honorable SC and what scam you are talking about? These are all buzzes from media-hyped foreign funded anti national NGOs - who want to weaken India and it's democratic fabric.


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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
You are bit wrong in using terms. Govt needs 'investments' for votes so that they can win another jackpot (elections) and fill their coffers for 5 years. I do not wish to speak on another scam you mentioned above but I am damn sure that they do not even think any good for common man. All the schemes, policies or actions are meant to increase the fund flow to personal accounts only.



Absolutely! Instead of planning for long terms and improving the public transport system, they just want to put extra burden on common man. They completely ignored the planning front and will always find ways to suck our bloods to cover up their failures.
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Old 27th November 2012, 19:47   #477
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
yes we can and we should blame the government. Do you and I have any better options? We have elected different parties but once they are in power they are all the same. It is a media created monster to point fingers at the common man accusing him of not doing much. In fact the only thing that I think we are guilty of, is not sparking a revolution. But we all convince ourselves that its out of our capacity/ ability to do that. Or someone in family will do the convincing for us. And we get busy paying out enormous home loans and excessive taxes so that the aforesaid white elephants can feed themselves to obesity and stash away enough money and land for their next 7 descendants. who will then roam around in white SUVs while we are made to feel guilty about driving around our diesel hatchback.
I think you answered the question yourself. Yes, a revolution might be good. But the least we can do is start questioning - by filing RTIs, written complaints or other possible means (actually the least we can do is to keep our country clean and not use it as a garbage dump). And my feelings haven't originated from media circus. They started from my few years of living in US where I saw people far more pro-active to make things better.

I guess we are going off-topic.

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Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
Please refrain from making politically biased statements - it looks like coming from a opposition and/or kejriwal's circus member not from t-bhpian. There is NO verdict from honorable SC and what scam you are talking about? These are all buzzes from media-hyped foreign funded anti national NGOs - who want to weaken India and it's democratic fabric.
Wow! from one so called politically biased statement to another. The last time I heard such a statement (latter half) was from our PM MMS. You aren't by chance him, are you?
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Old 27th November 2012, 20:06   #478
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
Please refrain from making politically biased statements - it looks like coming from a opposition and/or kejriwal's circus member not from t-bhpian. There is NO verdict from honorable SC and what scam you are talking about? These are all buzzes from media-hyped foreign funded anti national NGOs - who want to weaken India and it's democratic fabric.
I fail to understand how you found the statement politically motivated. Did I name someone in my post like you did? My rant is against all the political leaders, irrespective of their parties, for filling up their coffers from looting common man. We are discussing Government's plan in this thread and we all are posting our thoughts on it. If my comment is politically motivated then the entire thread is.

If you understood the mentioned 'scam' in my post, PM me. I do not want to discuss it here. I do not think that there is even a case against it, leave alone SC's verdict.

Moreover, there is a small triangular icon on every post to report to mods, if you had issues with it. let the moderators, decide if the post is OK or not instead of passing on your judgement.

I have nothing more to say and will not post anything else on this matter.
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Old 29th November 2012, 13:04   #479
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

This query by SC reminded of the days when judicial activism was at its peak. I remember reading somewhere the 'Court Approach' was also the recourse taken by the govt. to implement the projects which it wasn't able to in the due process, but had to because of the orders of the court. Things in Delhi such as converting the public transport to CNG etc. is attributed entirely to the courts.

Is something similar being cooked? The govt. can always adopt holier than thou approach and come to the public with the plea, 'See, we didn't do it. In fact we never wanted to. The court has forced our hands.'

Last edited by anandjha : 29th November 2012 at 13:06.
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Old 29th November 2012, 13:59   #480
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars

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Originally Posted by srishiva
Regarding subsidy, start at the source i.e the fuel and forget the cars.
Exactly !!! The subsidy on diesel needs to go and then automatically we will see people making a rational choice between petrol and diesel variants while buying cars. A hard decision, but someone needs to take it. They did a good start with capping the subisidised cylinders and this can be the next one.

I knew that South India was more biased towards diesel, but still when I chanced upon this "1.0 litre Daihatsu diesel M800" at my friend's garage in Kerala, I thought it was just stickering.
Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars-20120910-14.24.08-copy.jpg

But curiousity made me open the bonnet and what do I see inside ? A diesel engine from Daihatsu.
Govt plans to impose additional levies on diesel cars-20120910-14.27.26.jpg
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