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Old 28th January 2012, 19:15   #121
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Lets all accept that private vehicles [especially cars] are more of a luxury than a necessity! So the trick is to target those with minimal impact to the whole population.
Well, IMHO, Car is more becomming a necassity these days rather than a luxury.

I prefer to drive to work as I am the master of my time. If i come late to work, manager is not going to be happy. My Manager will not buy any excuse like Bus is late, traffic jams, bus was crowded etc. All He would say is "you are late Dont give me reasons".

In USA Car is a basic necassity as the Public transport is not so good w.r.t connectivity and frequency. Petrol is subsidized in the USA by the Govt.

in UK cars are heavily taxed, but the Public transport is adequate and punctual. I mean you can really depend on those for your daily commute.

At least the government should not be doing this. With the daily expectations being more, Car is a necassity. Take an example of Chennai - In April, If i want to reach office by 11:00, for a client meeting, I can take a public bus and reach stinky, smelly and sweaty - my manager wont be happy. So this leaves me with no choice but to take my car. If I have ALL Ac Buses like UK with excellent frequency (read at least once every 25 mins) I will dump my car.

Govt is not doing anything for the middle class. It will hurt the car population but people will take it meekingly.
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Old 28th January 2012, 19:20   #122
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
The chances as I see is very very minimal! If the government implements it, I can't imagine the kind of inflation we will face. This will straight away hit the public transportation sector which will make sure all the daily required goods prices go thru the roof making the life of common man nothing short of a night mare.
Whats the use of putting an artificial lid to the inflation ? Do you think that the impact of higher fuel prices on prices of food would be more than the 35-40% of waste during transportation and storage of perishables ? I find it strange that even with the power and access to so much information we continue to be played by the political nonsense that's dished to us everyday. Inflation is not due to fuel prices - its due to unscrupulous practices like hoarding , cartelisation and of course due to the immense liquidity (black money) sloshing around . De-regularise diesel prices completely and use the additional money to tackle the other issues , lets get FDI into retail so that we get the best practices in logistics and storing - I am dead sure that inflation's diesel excuse would be thrown out of the window. I have personally seen Metro Cash and Carry work from very close quarters - one has to see them squeeze out waste to understand what I am saying , this is proven !

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Lets all accept that private vehicles [especially cars] are more of a luxury than a necessity! So the trick is to target those with minimal impact to the whole population.
You can't be serious about this comment ! Where's the public transport if I do not have my car ?? It seems that you stay in Bangalore , does that city have any meaningful public transport ? I have stayed in Blr from 2002-07 , the city's public transport was non existent . I stay in Mumbai - I do not know whether you know the scene here . If the railways is called a public transport its because people do not have any other viable option . I refuse to travel packed like cattle in the locals ! AC cabs like Meru , etc are few and far between and most of the time are not available at short notice . Buses are not reliable and takes circuitous routes . I cannot call on clients with grime soot and sweat all over my suit so car is an essential item. Why should we live our life by the lowest common denominator ? Cars would be a non necessity not only when we have public transport in place but also when we have the entire ecosphere in place which means adequate modes of transport to and from the stations , junctions of public transport , adequate parking place near the stations like those in developed countries . Till then, many of us would refuse to wear the commie hat !

Last edited by souravc : 28th January 2012 at 19:23.
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Old 28th January 2012, 19:27   #123
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by Turbokick View Post
But my worry is for the vehicles that are used as taxi and private rental transportation like some hatchbacks like indica,sedans like indigo CS and MUVs like bolero and tavera.

So the taxi market might get badly affected as the initial expenditure will go for a toss.
True - I had thought about this point as well! To counter this, they could allow only private vehicles to come under the tax bracket. For those vehicles which are used as taxis, they might give an exemption at the RTO level than ex showroom pricing. Now unless we see the final print, all we can do is to speculate.

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
Well, IMHO, Car is more becomming a necassity these days rather than a luxury.
Agree to some extent. But if I need to counter your argument, I can have multiple questions, like

1. From a transportation point of view, the first option for anyone should be a two-wheeler!
2. Now for an all weather transportation solution [with multiple persons] go for a four-wheeler.
3. If car is a necessity for transportation, people should buy only Nano.
4. If they need more features in their car, they can buy the petrol variants and NOT the diesel variants etc etc.

Trust me, I am NOT a fan of this new tax as I LOVE the low budget transportation costs involved in a diesel car.

I am NOT trying to nit pick on you, but just giving my thoughts which could bring much valid points from you/other bhpians. But the fact is government will prefer to look at a bigger picture.

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Originally Posted by souravc View Post
Inflation is not due to fuel prices - its due to unscrupulous practices like hoarding , cartelisation and of course due to the immense liquidity (black money) sloshing around . De-regularise diesel prices completely and use the additional money to tackle the other issues ,
Now what can we do about the black money when the government chooses NOT to bring it in. We have been reading the news about Swiss banks having so much un-accounted money from some Indian politicians & the likes. If the government seizes all the money, then I don't think we need any fuel hikes for the next "n" years or so!! But can we be optimistic about such things happening. At least with the current situation where the government is more keen on cutting down the citizen's right to opinion thru various media, I would not expect something really good to happen for the common people.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 28th January 2012 at 19:36.
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Old 28th January 2012, 20:13   #124
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
1. From a transportation point of view, the first option for anyone should be a two-wheeler!
2. Now for an all weather transportation solution [with multiple persons] go for a four-wheeler.
3. If car is a necessity for transportation, people should buy only Nano.
4. If they need more features in their car, they can buy the petrol variants and NOT the diesel variants etc etc.
2Wheeler is more accident prone and not safe (prone to mugging etc)

I am okay to bring in this rule, but the govt must make public transport easily accessible and punctual to people. If they can bring it to at least 50% of UK standards, i would be happy.

I mean to say that Petrol and diesel could cost the same. They can bring in a high tax on automobiles be it diesel or petrol or Gobar Gas provided the Public transport is good. Petrol Prices increase, we are affected. Diesel prices increase, still we are affected. In Fact If diesel cars are going to cost more and Govt wants to promote petrol vehicles, Govt must offer a subsidy on petrol cars aor heck at least lower taxes on petrol or at the very least give a guarantee on the price of petrol for 2 years.
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Old 28th January 2012, 20:15   #125
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

The talk seems to suggest that the hike in prices would be somewhere in between 81000 to 162000 INR. If done this has a potential to single handedly kill the financial benefits that one gets while purchasing a Diesel car.

Source - Why taxing diesel cars is worse than raising diesel prices | Firstpost
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Old 28th January 2012, 22:01   #126
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

So is it the right time to buy a diesel car before the tax is imposed?
I guess if somebody is considering diesel he should be in a real hurry.

But the options are limited.
If April is the deadline :

Hatchback segment :
Swift,Ritz : Not available
Figo,i20 : Maybe available
Micra,Vista,Punto,Liva,Polo : Readily available

Sedan segment :
Verna,dzire,SX4 : Not available
Vento,Rapid : Maybe available
Rest cars should be readily available.

Correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 28th January 2012, 22:39   #127
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

I have observed in many occasions at least in Bangalore that the car is occupied by one person ie.., the driver only. Many office goers today use a car for their transportation. Please understand that at least 4 two wheelers can be driven in a place where car is driven. What is the necessity that just one person using a car. (No offence meant to anyone and i always exclude the elderly people and those who really deserve a car). I know this is a democratic country and every one has his own rights, but please think from the point of traffic conditions. I don't blame the Government for everything, at least in Bangalore lot of infrastructure developments are happening but still the traffic is a big problem.

I sincerely request at least bhpians to use a two wheeler or car pool techniques to reduce the traffic. I know that it is not a convenient thing to do. But still for the sake of country we will do something. Off course cars can be used during bad climatic conditions.

Off late i have started to follow the same policy.

Last edited by rki2007 : 28th January 2012 at 22:58. Reason: spelling errors
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Old 28th January 2012, 23:05   #128
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

I think the govt is spot on. Something just had to be done.

The pricing differential is bad from another point of view - that of an enthusiast. It has the potential of giving the manufacturer an incentive of selling a crappy diesel mill just cos they know that the customer will accept it due to the low fuel cost.

I took the diesel swift in 2008 because it was the better driver - if the current 1.2 was on the market chances are I might have ended up with a Swift Zxi .

Drive on,
Shibu.
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Old 28th January 2012, 23:16   #129
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
Swiftnfurious is partially correct. One of the following two things are most probably going to happen by April-
1. Diesel car prices hiked by 80k.
2. Diesel price deregulated. From seeing prices in Pakistan, diesel is going to be almost as costly as petrol if deregulation happens.

Even if you get your DZire before April, price deregulation will hit you badly if implemented. In my opinion, if you can wait, do wait till April. Better wait than be sorry.

I agree to both. But its " either this or that".
The govt is already in neckdeep crap for the scams, inflation and other zillion things. And the diesel subsidy is eating whatever is left in our khajaana. So they'l hav to find a way a to stop the leak coz of this subsidy.

1. re-regulate the price of diesel- (that'd mean taking off the subsidy or else increase diesel price by Rs 15. Highly unlikely. The price of commodities wil go sky high. they wont do it. Na na na. They are this if they dare to do it.

2. The easier way. Loot us in a civilised way. They'd get Rs 80000 on every diesel car + ultimately the sales of diesel cars'd drop. That means more petrol cars,more profit for oil companies-(all diesel cars cost atleast 1 lakh than its petrol sibling+ rs 80000 through green tax + extra service cost. Only taxi drivers and those who travel more than a 100kms would buy a diesel again. Purpose served. )

So its more likely that they would loot us than de-regulate diesel prices.

Last edited by rmk : 28th January 2012 at 23:18. Reason: spelling mistakes
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Old 28th January 2012, 23:26   #130
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
Petrol is subsidized in the USA by the Govt.
Do you have a cite for that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
In Fact If diesel cars are going to cost more and Govt wants to promote petrol vehicles, Govt must offer a subsidy on petrol cars aor heck at least lower taxes on petrol or at the very least give a guarantee on the price of petrol for 2 years.
Quite frankly, this is ridiculous.
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Old 28th January 2012, 23:56   #131
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

A welcome and necessary step.

With increasing input costs(fertilizers, labour availability/wages, electricity availability), farming in this country is now dependent mainly on diesel(read:tractor, JCB, diesel pumpset). And if diesel price has to be increased, a food crisis is imminent.

Targeted subsidizing is the way forward, but in a country which still doesn't have a full-fledged citizenship list(AADHAR will take a long time) such things wont work.
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Old 29th January 2012, 08:40   #132
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

Is it possible that car manufacturers not able to come up with suitable product line are doing a behind the curtain lobbying to sustain their "outshined" ( petrol in particular) product range ?????

Off course subsidy is also not a very healthy sign for commercial or pleasure/personal use.It should be left to social sector like Health,Education & Law etc.

Cheers
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Old 29th January 2012, 09:03   #133
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

With petrol car owners promptly selling off their cars to new car buyers buying a diesel, just because it cost less to run. This was bound to happen one day or the other.IMO, the government might introduce separate grade diesel for commercial vehicles or different fuel filler nozzles for cars, if it decides to deregulate prices.

The bottomline is that there was a lopsided growth in the diesel segment.It was recently reported that 40% diesel use in the country was in passenger cars. The govt. is doing its part to regulate car sales & bring uniformity in passenger car segment.
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Old 29th January 2012, 09:56   #134
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

My apologies for asking a stupid question .If the government goes ahead and puts a tax on diesel cars , will it be included in the ex-showroom price or will it be added to road tax etc?? This makes a difference for cars priced just below 10 lakhs .
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Old 30th January 2012, 09:42   #135
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Default Re: Govt plans to impose additional levies on cigarettes and diesel cars

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Do you have a cite for that?

Quite frankly, this is ridiculous.
In USA, Price for Gasoline / Petrol

1 Gallon - 3.5 $
3.7 litre - 175 Rs (assuming Rs 50/$ as an average)
1 litre = 47 Rs in USA

In india 1 litre is approx 75/-. Approx 40% more.

Fuel is more a necassity in india as Public transport is not dependable and run to more than full capacity during peak hour. Fuel is more a need than a luxury to reach office on time, reach somewhat fresh etc.

Petrol price skyrockets and Diesel vehicles will be / are heavily taxed. So what is there for the average middle class who depends on a 2W/4W for his daily commute.

Tax should be something like IT Slab

Cars costing below 7 lacs - no tax (Assume for private transportation)
Cars from 7-12 lacs - 20% tax
12 lacs and above - 30% tax.

The above structure will ensure Diesel cars are used for personal transportation. Luxury vehicles could/should be taxed 30%-40% tax. This will be a detterent to buy a diesel luxury car.

OR

Totaly reduce taxes on petrol so that petrol is like 50/- a liter (adjust taxes accordingly).

If a facility is being used, it would be taxed by Government. Petrol was being used extensively, Petrol is overpriced. People shift to Diesel cars and diesel cars would be costing higher.

There is a "congesion charge" at the airport. Heck airports are there to be used only. Why should be pay a congesion charge ?

By Magic assume 50% of india uses bi-cycle to commute to work, Govt will impose a tax on bi-cycles.
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