Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th November 2011, 21:31   #61
Senior - BHPian
 
lurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tura
Posts: 1,308
Thanked: 641 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

Govt can fudge it's loss figures big time and make atleast 200,000 crore a year in profit if it under states the local component of crude in the crude basket.

If for instance, unlike what they proclaim contstantly that the local component of crude varies from 10%-20% and reality probably is closer to 30%-35% considering the crappy high-sulpher diesel supplied at our pumps most of the times and makes a mess of injectors is true, then the actual cost for that domestic crude is almost nil for the govt. Recently they have started to exploit Krishna basin too which has some amound of crude there.

Since they are lying so passionately about mythical losses, there is no way to confirm the actual volume being actually produced domestically since the govt neither the oil companies will admit the truth in any case.
lurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2011, 22:08   #62
Distinguished - BHPian
 
phamilyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 5,601
Thanked: 3,452 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Govt can fudge it's loss figures big time and make atleast 200,000 crore a year in profit if it under states the local component of crude in the crude basket.

If for instance, unlike what they proclaim contstantly that the local component of crude varies from 10%-20% and reality probably is closer to 30%-35% considering the crappy high-sulpher diesel supplied at our pumps most of the times and makes a mess of injectors is true, then the actual cost for that domestic crude is almost nil for the govt. Recently they have started to exploit Krishna basin too which has some amound of crude there.

Since they are lying so passionately about mythical losses, there is no way to confirm the actual volume being actually produced domestically since the govt neither the oil companies will admit the truth in any case.
hilarious. another one of those numbers out of thin air armchair analysis.

can you substantiate the 200,000crore/year profit analysis? Petronas, one of the world's MOST profitable national oil companies had a $7.2 bn profit on a $39bn topline. even including the $3.4 bn subsidy - their post tax profit does not top $10bn, i.e 50,000 crore. Where did you come up with your number?

Then your second hilarious logic - equating domestic crude component to fuel adulteration! I mean, no seriously! I will not even bother with proving you wrong on this one. Fuel adulteration happens due to a wide variety of factors. Domestic crude is no "less" a quality. High or low sulphur diesel is a byproduct of the refining infrastructure, which DOES cost hundreds of thousands of crores to replace, by the way. That too, has been improving, by the way.

And in case you missed it, crude from the Krishna Godavari basin does not come "free" (ref bold point) - have you ever even googled up the size of an oil installation, its cost? to make such silly statements?! Let me quote you ONGC's (which probably is CAG audited) FY11 results, they invested 61,000cr. Is that pocket change? How is domestic crude "free"? Reliance's capital investment in D6 is $8.8 bn or ~44000cr at today's exchange rate. Free crude? seriously?

I mean dude - yes, the oil price rise hurts us in every possible way, and it is a pain. But for god's sakes please think before you imagine up accusations against the government. Please.
PS: This is a government which cannot manage exhorbitant prices of onions, produced domestically - and you expect it to hold down prices of oil, which is produced with significant capital cost and which we import ~80%?
phamilyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2011, 22:34   #63
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nasik / Mumbai
Posts: 427
Thanked: 592 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
You got your data in this post completely WRONG. You are comparing controlled 2009 prices with decontrolled nov 2011 prices. Therefore the subsequent assumed growth is incorrect. there's exchange rates to compare as well. bottomline - this post is WRONG.

btw - Reducing taxes on petrol are a separate discussion and not really related to your calculations (though they feed into it).
I knew I was wrong when I considered petrol prices from 2 different eras. But still you cannot refute the fact that petrol price growth has been nothing short of alarming in this period. I never told people to not pay their taxes. I am only telling people that what the govt. wants us to know may not always be true.

@Lurker If my *revised* calculations are anywhere close to reality, they already are quite close to the 200,000 Crore annual profit figure even without considering the domestic crude component.

This thread has been up for over 24 hours now and even after 61 posts nobody has been able to point us to a reliable link showing what is the correct distribution ratio of products refined from unrefined imported crude oil. Since that is the very basis of all my calculations. I tried to find out authentic data off official websites but was greeted with 'Page not found' Messages and vague flow-charts. This shows us the level of transparency with which oil pricing is decided in the country.

The only reason I went through the pain of writing post #1 was because I remembered from the news that OMCs are going into losses if prices are not hiked. But when 'back of the envelope' calculations revealed that if they need to subsidize Rs.6 /liter of Diesel, from Petrol, the resultant burden on Petrol would be just Rs.2.64 and after compensating for Tax components, the price difference between the two should be somewhere around Rs.9.

Since the current difference in Petrol and Diesel pricing in Pune is Rs.31.xx, something somewhere was wrong. And I needed everyone to know about it.

@Phamilyman sirjee: Disclaimer (Before I get blasted again): All figures are approximate. Numbers are purely of 'Profit Before Tax'.

Last edited by antz.bin : 7th November 2011 at 22:41.
antz.bin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2011, 22:45   #64
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 532
Thanked: 198 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vijit.gangwar View Post
BTW which young heads are you talking about? The once we see around all suffer from foot in mouth syndrome.
No one in particular, maybe some new faces? Was just watching "Yuva" and truly felt something needs to change, anyways its completely off topic to discuss here.


@Mods: Sorry for going off topic ..
ObsessedByFIAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2011, 22:48   #65
Distinguished - BHPian
 
phamilyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 5,601
Thanked: 3,452 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

Phew. Finally. Now I atleast have data that the analysis on the 1st page, irrespective of how intuitive it looks, is not correct. Because you exclude tax. Which is the whole flaw in your calculation: there are two entities involved which you muddle. overall, yes it is sold at a profit compared to landed price of a barrel, but WHO makes the money needs to be understood.

if you pause for a second, you realize that its the government that has levied heavy taxes, and wants an impossible task:
- Taxes to be paid in full by the marketing companies, as per its pricing policy (below)
- products to be sold at pre-existing prices by the marketing companies, irrespective of the all-inclusive cost.

Here is how PPAC does it - the RIGHT way to look at costs.
Pricing build up: http://bit.ly/sfRAzh
Summary data on under-recoveries - http://ppac.org.in/WRITEREADDATA/PS_oil_prices.pdf

Do you still want anyone to tell you:
Quote:
Where, may I ask is the under-recovery, losses and subsidy?
PS: and the fact that the fuel price has increased 60% in two years, is because earlier we never paid the market determined prices and oil companies bled and oil bonds were issued to be paid by taxpayers' money!
PPS: all of this goes back to the basics. the taxation system is flawed (courtesy the PPAC analysis and not antz's first post). The government is making windfall taxes with oil prices at record highs, but wants oil companies to publicly sell it at an "acceptable" rate. Which is like feeding the right hand but starving the left. Doesn't work. No wonder they need tax reform. Needs to be capped for sure.
PPS: For those cribbing, please read IOC's annual report. For a company with a revenue of Rs 3287 bn, their cash is only Rs 13bn. Can you spell cash-crunch?? you need more proof of under recoveries?
PPPS: I wonder, now for sharing the right analysis whether i'll get 42 thanks or even 4.2

Good night. Can we close this thread now?
phamilyman is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2011, 23:25   #66
BHPian
 
ethanhunt123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 871
Thanked: 249 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman
Phew. Finally. Now I atleast have data that the analysis on the 1st page, irrespective of how intuitive it looks, is not correct. Because you exclude tax. Which is the whole flaw in your calculation: there are two entities involved which you muddle. overall, yes it is sold at a profit compared to landed price of a barrel, but WHO makes the money needs to be understood.

if you pause for a second, you realize that its the government that has levied heavy taxes, and wants an impossible task:
- Taxes to be paid in full by the marketing companies, as per its pricing policy (below)
- products to be sold at pre-existing prices by the marketing companies, irrespective of the all-inclusive cost.

Here is how PPAC does it - the RIGHT way to look at costs.
Pricing build up: http://bit.ly/sfRAzh
Summary data on under-recoveries - http://ppac.org.in/WRITEREADDATA/PS_oil_prices.pdf

Do you still want anyone to tell you:
PS: and the fact that the fuel price has increased 60% in two years, is because earlier we never paid the market determined prices and oil companies bled and oil bonds were issued to be paid by taxpayers' money!
PPS: all of this goes back to the basics. the taxation system is flawed (courtesy the PPAC analysis and not antz's first post). The government is making windfall taxes with oil prices at record highs, but wants oil companies to publicly sell it at an "acceptable" rate. Which is like feeding the right hand but starving the left. Doesn't work. No wonder they need tax reform. Needs to be capped for sure.
PPS: For those cribbing, please read IOC's annual report. For a company with a revenue of Rs 3287 bn, their cash is only Rs 13bn. Can you spell cash-crunch?? you need more proof of under recoveries?
PPPS: I wonder, now for sharing the right analysis whether i'll get 42 thanks or even 4.2

Good night. Can we close this thread now?
Finally someone let's go of random reasoning and talks sense. Well said buddy.

Before comparing petrol prices over time, we have to realise its wrong to compare prices post-deregulation and govt controlled petrol price era. Problem is not Oil companies, they are publicly traded companies and its totally wrong to ask their shareholders to lose money for "public" good. Problem is the ridiculous taxes by both centre and state govt on petrol.

Best solution - OMC's to publish fuel prices before taxes so that everyone knows how much govt charges.

Last edited by ethanhunt123 : 7th November 2011 at 23:30.
ethanhunt123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2011, 23:50   #67
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 910
Thanked: 297 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

I disagree. Fuel like alcohol is not an essential commodity. The govt can apply excise, duty, additional duty and octroi and still the common man is not affected. The affluent people who own bikes and cars should not allow the poor to suffer. BPL calsses with less than Rs.20/- per day. Just imagine that everytime you buy a litre of petrol you are spending the equivalent of what a common man spends in 4 days.
Shame on us all.
But seriously, the best solution is to treat oil like gold. Gold and silver are the only truely de-regulated comodities. We should have a daily pricing which is updated at 0915. The fuel meters can be centrally programmed with the data which the pump operators check on a daily basis. Govt can have it's pie and charge entertainment tax of 17.5%. For fancy fuels like speed or power, OMCs can charge a making charge. Atleast things will be transparent.
wildsdi5530 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2011, 23:54   #68
BHPian
 
shekhar_gogoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 76
Thanked: 11 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

@phamilyman: I just went through your given link. They were informative BUT the most important information was missing, that of PETROL. Its the petrol price that is the most controversial of all.

Now saying that petrol is being priced so as to make up for these under-recoveries is nonsense! For someone who does not use kerosene or subsidized LPG, this equates to utter discrimination by the Govt. against them. Had it been in some other developed country, people would have sued the Govt. by now.

Its like the Govt. saying 'Since we can't get our act right you (the hard earning citizens of the country) pay for it!'
shekhar_gogoi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2011, 00:01   #69
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nasik / Mumbai
Posts: 427
Thanked: 592 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

So, the crux of this discussion:

OMCs are not making profits. Govt. is the sole beneficiary.

But wasn't this already implied in post #1? (especially with me stressing 'without compensating for tax component' a million times?)

What I failed to compensate for was the fact that the OMCs are public traded companies with shareholders. Had they been 100% govt. owned, it wouldn't have mattered if the govt. earned through taxes or net profits. But that, clearly is not the case.

Sorry for my blunder.. But isn't this exactly what Team-BHP is for? Learning something new everyday?

P.S.: ppac.org.in doesn't have this break-up for petrol prices? Sorry but I tried finding, couldn't find it anywhere. Is it not a sensitive product?
antz.bin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2011, 00:26   #70
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,038
Thanked: 681 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik View Post
If the govt does backtrack and cuts down on taxes, it will be sad precedent. Cutting down taxes means less revenue - lesser money for welfare schemes. I wish the political class can rise above petty appeasement and take some hard decisions for better fiscal health of the nation.
Oh yeah, theres a lot of welfare work done by this govt. We can see the welfare schemes for Pawar, Raja, Gandhi's, etc...

We're concerned about the fiscal health, our point being that the govt is looting the public with the ridiculously high taxes.

BTW, some of the welfare schemes you spoke about also probably contributed to Antilla. Good scheme na?
Lalvaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2011, 00:32   #71
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 910
Thanked: 297 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

The break-up of petrol pricing was posted in the forum before.
Am unable to find the post.
OLD DATA
(Minister of State for Petroleum and Natural Gas R P N Singh shared some figures today:

Without taxes, petrol would cost Rs 23.37 per litre (Delhi)
With taxes it is Rs 63.70 a litre (Delhi)
In US, the petrol price is Rs 42.82 per litre
Without taxes, diesel would cost Rs 24.90 a litre. (Delhi)
With taxes the price is Rs 41.29 per litre, (Delhi)
In US, diesel is priced at Rs 45.84 a litre )

And OMCs don't make any losses. they make profits and also pay dividends. Underrecovery is what the govt. fails to collect.
For example : In the 2 G scam the central excheques had an under recovery of Rs.176000 crores. It signifies the amount that could have been earned under ideal conditions.
Another example- my figo is giving a mileage of 19-20kmpl where as it could have given 40 kmpl. So my under-recovery is about 50-52%. That arguement should make the govt shut its trap.
Also fuel price hike has nothing to do with under-recovery or losses sustained by the govt./OMC/OPC. it is just due to global crude prices and a 120% tax.
wildsdi5530 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2011, 01:27   #72
BHPian
 
hellmet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: GTA
Posts: 810
Thanked: 637 Times
Thumbs down Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik View Post
A 1.82 rupee petrol hike isn't that big. For a 40km a day biker, its barely 55Rs additional burden (1200 km at 40kmpl) per month. For a 40km/day car goer, it is just 200 odd rupees increase per month(calculated at 1200 km with 12kmpl)
If we can afford a 300 Rupee burger at the F1 race, can we not absorb this!
If I'm not wrong, petrol was Rs57.xx in Hyderabad last year June. Today, it costs 76.40. That is more than 33% increase in the price of an essential commodity for most people in similar job as me depending on private bike transport. Based on your calculation above, that is a Rs582 increase per month, in just 18 months, which is Rs6984/- p.a. Is that still a tiny amount?

Believe me, I've heard this burger/cola/cinema ticket comparison so many times it doesn't cut it this time. I've sacrificed enough movie tickets and much of outside food to keep my costs in control. When we talk of a common man, it doesn't have to be someone barely making it. It can also mean a decent middle-income family now struggling to cope with maintaining their living standards due to rising costs.
hellmet is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2011, 07:30   #73
Senior - BHPian
 
lurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tura
Posts: 1,308
Thanked: 641 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
@Lurker If my *revised* calculations are anywhere close to reality, they already are quite close to the 200,000 Crore annual profit figure even without considering the domestic crude component.
ha . . they are putting lion share of this revenue into consolidated fund of India. There is negligible auditing of this or the auditors have rights to audit but no rights to prosecution. At the most they may refer any discrepancy to CBI and it is part of the Home Dept.

So in short the ruling party decides how to spend and allocate these funds. Mostly they are used to finance budget deficit and the rest whatever suits their fancy.
lurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2011, 07:31   #74
Distinguished - BHPian
 
phamilyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 5,601
Thanked: 3,452 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shekhar_gogoi View Post
@phamilyman: I just went through your given link. They were informative BUT the most important information was missing, that of PETROL. Its the petrol price that is the most controversial of all.
yaar, petrol is NOT being priced to "make up for the kerosene/lpg under recoveries". see my attempt - broadly there is no "under recovery".

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
So, the crux of this discussion:

OMCs are not making profits. Govt. is the sole beneficiary.

But wasn't this already implied in post #1? (especially with me stressing 'without compensating for tax component' a million times?)

What I failed to compensate for was the fact that the OMCs are public traded companies with shareholders. Had they been 100% govt. owned, it wouldn't have mattered if the govt. earned through taxes or net profits. But that, clearly is not the case.

Sorry for my blunder.. But isn't this exactly what Team-BHP is for? Learning something new everyday?

P.S.: ppac.org.in doesn't have this break-up for petrol prices? Sorry but I tried finding, couldn't find it anywhere. Is it not a sensitive product?
LOL no, for the government petrol prices are an insensitive commodity

Anyway, I built it up for you - attached (considering gasoline Arab Gulf to be $5 below diesel as per link). There seems to be some CENVAT that additionally applies - if someone can google up the exact applicable taxes, it'll be good. lots of changes have happened of late.

and dude, please - reg your words in bold above. You didn't stress without tax "a million times". You used the word tax twice in your post - and only to arrive at the realization per barrel - that too wrongly because you confused OMC and government like I posted in my previous

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
And OMCs don't make any losses. they make profits and also pay dividends. Underrecovery is what the govt. fails to collect.

Another example- my figo is giving a mileage of 19-20kmpl where as it could have given 40 kmpl. So my under-recovery is about 50-52%. That arguement should make the govt shut its trap.
Also fuel price hike has nothing to do with under-recovery or losses sustained by the govt./OMC/OPC. it is just due to global crude prices and a 120% tax.
You are partly right. the tax is huge. But oil marketing companies are reeling due to under recoveries. Please read up IOCL's FY11 report (its cash balance - only worth 2 days expenses or such), BPCL's report has a similar story. Infact, they had almost $3billion of unsecured (possibly working capital) loans. The OMCs are heading into a debt trap at this rate (see how air india finances have gone down the toilet due to a similar loan pattern). The government is pillaging them for its political gains.

and please - your numbers on "my under recovery" is cute but senseless!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellmet View Post
If I'm not wrong, petrol was Rs57.xx in Hyderabad last year June. Today, it costs 76.40. That is more than 33% increase in the price of an essential commodity for most people in similar job as me depending on private bike transport. Based on your calculation above, that is a Rs582 increase per month, in just 18 months, which is Rs6984/- p.a. Is that still a tiny amount?

Believe me, I've heard this burger/cola/cinema ticket comparison so many times it doesn't cut it this time. I've sacrificed enough movie tickets and much of outside food to keep my costs in control. When we talk of a common man, it doesn't have to be someone barely making it. It can also mean a decent middle-income family now struggling to cope with maintaining their living standards due to rising costs.
Hellmet, how does Rs 7000 compare to the annual escalation in any middle class household's rental accomodation? I'm not saying its insignificant but the fact is that the government CANNOT CONTROL crude prices.

It should only do two things IMO:
- Target a consensus oil revenue that is agreed by all as fair and regularly revise taxes (make it fixed/liter, not % based). State governments should cut their taxes too (which they haven't done).
- Enhance JNNURM and give quality public transport. Tomorrow if oil prices go to $200, the government can do nothing. it should just restrict itself to providing a quality transportation alternative and let demand correct itself.

its a scary scenario but I would much rather that everyone pays per liter for what they consume than my hard earned taxes pay for all the no-tax paying businessmen.

Lurker, if u think domestic crude should have been free in India - sample this: Dubai Denies Emirate Neighbors Fuel in Struggle to Pay Debt: Arab Credit - Bloomberg

Quote:
closed filling points in neighboring Sharjah and restricted supplies to other northern emirates last week ..... emirate plans to cut “subsidies and transfers” by 50 percent to 2.67 billion dirhams in 2011
Look at global examples from 2009: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/I...yperlinked.pdf (pg 11).
Quote:
The country’s biggest refiner, Sinopec, alone was paid
$7.5 billion in 2008, but the two refiners still suffered a combined loss
of more than $20 billion
The 2011 subsidy budget in Indonesia is >$22 billion.

PS: Antz - the only part where I sort of agreed with you was how the government is milking all of us dry in this process. See Fuel duty cuts to upset govt's tax calculations - their tax calculatin was 1.52 lakh crore
Here is another example of how the govt is milking oil prices to literally feed the poor (supposedly): Government the biggest gainer from petrol price hikes - Hindustan Times

BUT please remember - UNION Government has actually cut customs and excise duty. The biggest gainers are the state governments who get a portion of these taxes as VAT but do not cut anything. Let's take out a morcha against our respective state govts!!
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx Petrol price buildup.xlsx (9.6 KB, 239 views)

Last edited by phamilyman : 8th November 2011 at 07:34.
phamilyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2011, 08:43   #75
Mik
BHPian
 
Mik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: GGN>BLR
Posts: 362
Thanked: 300 Times
Default Re: Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
Oh yeah, theres a lot of welfare work done by this govt. We can see the welfare schemes for Pawar, Raja, Gandhi's, etc...

We're concerned about the fiscal health, our point being that the govt is looting the public with the ridiculously high taxes.

BTW, some of the welfare schemes you spoke about also probably contributed to Antilla. Good scheme na?
Keep your cynicism to yourself. Beyond all the Pawars, Yeddurappas and Rajas there are a lot of passionate and honest people in this country who are trying to make it work. If you are interested, go out and check the benefits of NREGA and how it has changed the social fabric in the places it has been used effectively.

If you check out the schemes that have been launched by successive governments, you will be surprised. The problem always has been two things.
1. Implementation - This includes corruption/file pushing/red tape.
2. Resources. Often, the govt runs out of money.

As said in my original post, the public should pressure on the govt to enhances its efficiency.

@Hellmet: 7k a year is not a small amount. But, why won't you pay it. After all, you are paying for a decontrolled item. Also, in India, the movie/cola logic always holds. While a section of the society has the means to enjoy these things at exorbitant rates, a humongous majority of people can never dream of living that kind of life. The govt really needs to work for that section.
The benefits of liberalization has borne fruit for us and we have been huge beneficiaries of it. But, a huge section of India has been left behind.
Mik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Highway robbery comes to NH1 now tsk1979 Street Experiences 25 15th December 2016 14:45
Got a detailed SMS from Bharat Petroleum after filling fuel - How? autobahnjpr Shifting gears 23 16th September 2016 14:27
Bangalore - Scary robbery attempt at My Home Nikhilb2008 Shifting gears 80 13th October 2009 23:07
Diwali robbery - thief makes hay when the diwali lights shine - NOW RECOVERED!! jassi Shifting gears 98 4th October 2008 23:46
Ronin anyone? Mall Robbery Dubai cheap_deal Shifting gears 33 21st May 2008 11:51


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 22:20.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks