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View Poll Results: No Automatic for me because:
Fuel-efficiency concerns 236 18.63%
I love Manual transmissions! 507 40.02%
AT option is unavailable on my choice of car (including diesels) 387 30.54%
I don't think the cost premium (75 - 100K) is worth it 210 16.57%
Maintenance concerns 150 11.84%
Other reason (please specify in your post) 36 2.84%
Not applicable. My next car WILL be an Automatic 287 22.65%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 1267. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 4th March 2012, 17:14   #301
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by penlax View Post
That is an interesting perspective on the benefits of AT in stop and go traffic.
How long does the i10 take to get moving into 'creep' mode once you lift the foot off the brake pedal?
It moves immediately, but in creep mode its not able to keep a steady gap as rest of the traffic is not going at a constant speed.
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Old 4th March 2012, 17:57   #302
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by penlax View Post
In highway runs - especially in single lane highways like most of Kerala has where we have only a miniscule gap to start and complete an overtaking manoeuvre, the automatic as presently found in cars the general public drives in India is just not responsive enough.
Maybe cars like the new Fiesta Automatic will change that.
Try the Honda City AT. It has F1 like paddle shifters below the steerring which are precisely for these conditions. You can manually downshift the gear and complete the overtaking routine without any strain.

In a basic AT without an override mechanism like A-Star or i10 -- you need to floor the accelerator pedal. There are electronic sensors which will detect this request and downshift the vehicle and the car will surge ahead. This works in all ATs.

This is from my personal experience -- I drive a City AT in Bangalore and my father has an A-star AT in Kerala. I love A-star AT for it's small size, peppy engine and good brakes. You can squeeze it in through a much smaller space than the City. Nice vehicle indeed.
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Old 4th March 2012, 19:52   #303
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
It moves immediately, but in creep mode its not able to keep a steady gap as rest of the traffic is not going at a constant speed.
In that case it requires very fine control of the accelerator pedal to get upto but not above the required speed. Easier said than done!

Quote:
Originally Posted by B103 View Post
Try the Honda City AT. It has F1 like paddle shifters below the steerring which are precisely for these conditions. You can manually downshift the gear and complete the overtaking routine without any strain.

In a basic AT without an override mechanism like A-Star or i10 -- you need to floor the accelerator pedal.
Any triptronic system will also suffice but there is a minimal lag after selecting the gear on the paddle shift or the triptronic.
The Fiesta eliminates that lag by preselecting the gears due to its dual clutch system.
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Old 4th March 2012, 20:44   #304
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by penlax View Post
The Fiesta eliminates that lag by preselecting the gears due to its dual clutch system.
Please refer to posts #4 and #5 in Fiesta ATs review in the URL:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ve-review.html (Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review)

For overtaking in rather narrow roads of Kerala, you need to downshift rather than upshift. As seen esp in post #5, the downshift is slower in Fiesta AT in the D mode. It makes me wonder if the dual clutch prepares Fiesta for the next gear upshift and not downshift.

I usually push the accelerator pedal to the 3/4 range for an overtake. Then gearbox downshifts, surge in power will be delivered and this will help me perform the overtake. Once overtaking is done, I release the pedal which will result in the gearbox immediately upshifting. This is particularly true for A-Star.

In the Honda City, a much lighter tap on the accelerator pedal will yield the downshift. Also paddle shifters are allowed to intervene in both D and S modes and it gives you much more confidence that you are absolutely in control.

Last edited by B103 : 4th March 2012 at 20:59.
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Old 4th March 2012, 21:23   #305
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

AT's nowadays have moved far ahead from the gas guzzling slush-boxes of yore.
The problem in India is a typical "chicken & egg" situation. Because demand is less, AT trannies are not localised or made in India, hence all AT boxes in India are imported and after adding umpteen number of taxes etc, the AT model's pricing goes through the roof which does not justify a market introduction for that product segment.
We need an OEM to indigenise/localise an AT box, keep costs down and introduce that AT in India - preferably in a volume model.
I am sure demand will explode as this segment has not been tapped at all. With an increasing number of indian's returning after work stints abroad - where they are usually exposed to the world of AT 'box, growing number of women driver's who I'm sure will prefer the convenience of an AT in our chaotic traffic, retirees who would want an AT for its conveneince - yes, the market is there.

So which Indian OEM will do it ? That is got an R&D strong enough to conceptualise, design, develop, validate an AT specifically for Indian hatchbacks? Don't Know, but Tata Motors can take the initiative.
A Nano with an AT or CVT priced at Rs 2.5-2.7 lacs will "automatically" bestow the little car the moniker of a perfect urban runabout.
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Old 4th March 2012, 22:38   #306
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by B103 View Post
Please refer to posts #4 and #5 in Fiesta ATs review in the URL:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ve-review.html (Ford Fiesta (Automatic) : Test Drive & Review)
As seen esp in post #5, the downshift is slower in Fiesta AT in the D mode. It makes me wonder if the dual clutch prepares Fiesta for the next gear upshift and not downshift.
In the Honda City, a much lighter tap on the accelerator pedal will yield the downshift. Also paddle shifters are allowed to intervene in both D and S modes and it gives you much more confidence that you are absolutely in control.
Thanks, I had assumed that the Dual Clutch would prepare the next gear when upshifting and downshifting as well...but I guess there is no way the ECU can predict the need for an immediate downshift.

How long does it take from the time you downshift the paddle shift to the time when the gear is actually engaged in your Honda City?
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Old 4th March 2012, 23:12   #307
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by penlax View Post
How long does it take from the time you downshift the paddle shift to the time when the gear is actually engaged in your Honda City?
Good question Penlax .

It does not take more than 2 seconds at the max, as I have noticed it. I don't have to release the accelerator when using the paddlers to shift the gear and there is no clutch in an AT as you know.

Car will check internally to see if it is safe to downshift so that gearbox will not damaged by the any careless downshift made by the driver. Else it will simply ignore the request. Now, this is good as far as I can see because it protects the gear box. Needless to say, there is no such mechanism in the manual version, as far as I know.

Last edited by B103 : 4th March 2012 at 23:14.
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Old 5th March 2012, 00:02   #308
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Actually I found that if you suddenly need to go from 4 to 2 or 5 to 3 the paddles don't work very well. They are good for one gear down but when you need to drop 2 gears down they are slower. If you quickly click twice on the paddles to go down the car takes a long while to to change down. One gear is quick. The best way to drop 2 is to first press once let it go down then press again. This is way slower than just slotting into 2 from 4 in MT, matching revs and shooting off.

In the DSG box of Superb, Passat and Jetta you can drop 2 gears much more faster which make sense.
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Old 6th March 2012, 11:44   #309
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Modern DSG and Tiptronic Automatic Gearboxes with 5-8 gears matching or exceeding the gear count of the manual varients of the same cars tend to be more fuel efficent and in my view more fun than the manual varients.

The DSG changes gears much faster and optimally than we can ever hope to manually. Plus with the Tiptronics / Paddle Shifters the enthusiast has the option to change gears manually as well, though frankly to me this makes sense only with some properly placed paddle shifters.

The kickdown mode in addition gives those who want it voilent thrust as well.

Have always has an AT as one or more of my cars and my wife simply is not comfortable with a manual. That said have also had a manual with me always and yet feel that over time will graduate to only AT's when vehicles of my selection are available in AT. I too find AT's relaxing to drive but they are even better if one has the park brake assist feature wherein when one presses the brake to come to a halt the brake stays on and keeps the car stationary till we give acc inputs. This ensures that the right leg is not actually working overtime.

That said the 3/4 shifters like in the A-Star, i10, i20, etc are a real dull experience, convenient yes also poor in fuel effeciency. My lighter i10 AT Petrol gives me about 9-10kmpl in the city and that is poor. The much heavier Laura DSG AT diesel gives me a min of 12.5kmpl and even accounting for the diesel driven effeciency it is clearly shows how much addtional effeciency can be obtained just by the right kind of AT.

Lastly, the AT's are in my view Safer, as in crunch situations one is not in two minds on which gear to select. A novice driver finding the car moving backward down the slope while selecting a gear or changing from the previously wrongly selected gear into a lower one while holding half clutch can really end up in a bad shape if his nerves or skill give up.
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Old 6th March 2012, 12:03   #310
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by ACM
I too find AT's relaxing to drive but they are even better if one has the park brake assist feature wherein when one presses the brake to come to a halt the brake stays on and keeps the car stationary till we give acc inputs. This ensures that the right leg is not actually working overtime.
That is indeed a good feature, because while ATs save fatigue on the left leg, in B2B traffic, the right leg does work overtime. And brake-assist can help reduce this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM
That said the 3/4 shifters like in the A-Star, i10, i20, etc are a real dull experience, convenient yes also poor in fuel effeciency. My lighter i10 AT Petrol gives me about 9-10kmpl in the city and that is poor. The much heavier Laura DSG AT diesel gives me a min of 12.5kmpl
Dull experience is relative. If you compare with the bigger cars with fancy ATs, yes. But for a city car, these small ATs do the job well. And regarding fuel efficiency, that is an issue only with the i10-AT. The A-Star_AT gives stellar efficiency which is almost up there with its MT variant - we have loads of owners on the forum who have reported FEs ranging from 12-19kmpl, with lower end of the range being in B2B traffic in city (Blore) and higher end being highway runs. No idea about i20-AT FE since that seems to be a rarity on the forum.

I have always had the impression that ATs are fuel-guzzlers, but the A*-AT changed it for me and I don't think I will ever buy any MT car in the future, especially if it is to be used by my Dad and wife also.
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Old 6th March 2012, 13:15   #311
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post

That said the 3/4 shifters like in the A-Star, i10, i20, etc are a real dull experience, convenient yes also poor in fuel effeciency. My lighter i10 AT Petrol gives me about 9-10kmpl in the city and that is poor. The much heavier Laura DSG AT diesel gives me a min of 12.5kmpl and even accounting for the diesel driven effeciency it is clearly shows how much addtional effeciency can be obtained just by the right kind of AT.
I agree with you on poor FE of i10 but A-Star scores very well on this front. I have found A-Star AT's FE to be almost same as A-Star MT's. It is perfect for city run-around car. I call it 4-wheeled eqiuvalent of Honda Activa. Parfect for wife, older folks. And we should not compare with Laura DSG which is several segments higher. But then Laura DSG doesn't come for 5L.
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Old 6th March 2012, 15:17   #312
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
I do occasionally drive an i10 AT in stop and go traffic. I dont really find it THAT big a boon really over a manual car. In AT, in stop-go traffic, either you keep your foot on the brake most of the time when stopped, or you keep switching between P-N-D
+1
In B2B traffic whether it's Manual or AT you got to constantly shift your right leg between the Acc. pedal and brake pedal, and that's what hurts the most.
Unless we adapt a style of using left feet for brake and right for Acc. like some racing drivers, you're not going to gain much.

Maybe city specific car's should come with something revolutionarily better, like touch-sensitive accelerator in the steering wheel or something like that.
and leave only the brake in AT cars and brake & clutch in MT cars, to be taken care by our feet.
That would make things easier for our knees and feet.

Last edited by Daewood : 6th March 2012 at 15:21.
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Old 6th March 2012, 15:40   #313
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

I do want to buy an automatic. However, no new D segment car or SUV is launched with AT as an option. Only exception was Jetta but then it is DSG which has its own horror stories. Fortuner launched with an AT with only 4 speed!!!

Only serious contenders are Chevrolet with Cruze and Captiva. Just waiting for the upgrade launches and prices to make my mind. All german, japanese and korean manufacturers, wake up!
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Old 6th March 2012, 18:26   #314
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Since there are lot of conversation going on here regarding Automatics, I thought I'll ask my question here.

The price difference between A Star Vxi [Rs 404380] and A Star AT [Rs 449329] is Rs 44949. A Start AT has Automatic Transmission and ABS in addition to the Vxi features.

The price difference between Dzire Vxi [Rs 530527 and Dzire AT [Rs 652889] is Rs 122362. Dzire AT also has Automatic Transmission and ABS in addition to Vxi features. Why is the price difference so high in Dzire?

Sorry, if I'm OFF TOPIC. Mods pl feel free to delete this if it is OT. I had asked the same question in the DZire forum and got no reply. So, I thought let me post it here.
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Old 6th March 2012, 19:03   #315
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

I have ALWAYS owned manuals. I refused to own automatic. until I returned to India and found that that traffic conditions have become absolutely ghastly both in terms of traffic jams and the utter utter chaos. I had no problem driving a manual sitting in New York City's traffic jams for 3 hours at a time, but after 25 years of swearing I will never own an automatic, delhi traffic conditions in the year 2011 made me put my hands up.

If I go back to the US, I will go back to rejecting automatics.

But India's terrible traffic conditions have gotten rid of my manuals-only snobbery.
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