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View Poll Results: No Automatic for me because:
Fuel-efficiency concerns 236 18.63%
I love Manual transmissions! 507 40.02%
AT option is unavailable on my choice of car (including diesels) 387 30.54%
I don't think the cost premium (75 - 100K) is worth it 210 16.57%
Maintenance concerns 150 11.84%
Other reason (please specify in your post) 36 2.84%
Not applicable. My next car WILL be an Automatic 287 22.65%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 1267. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 20th December 2014, 21:18   #436
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
<snip> Once that mental barrier was breached, there was not turning back. Indians stick to manuals because they are cheap to own, not because they love the "fun" in driving manuals.
<snip>
I do not understand the mindset of some folks who just dismiss the "fun to drive" factor and bring up affordability with sweeping generalization.

Here is an example, I am kind of an artist who can do reasonably good pencil sketch of pretty much anything I wish. Now I know how a camera works and how to take a picture of the subject with a camera. Same goes with a photocopy machine or a printer. I can copy the image using a scanner or a photocopy machine. The result would be far more realistic than my attempt at being J.D. Hillberry (just one small dream) and depending on the device I used, it may have a million more colors than what graphite can give.

If someone asks me why I do the sketching, I say it's just for the fun of it. Now you can say that I have never used a printer, camera and a photocopier or that I cannot afford any of these. These may be true, but even then it does not change the fact that I love to sketch. The fun is mine to enjoy, it cannot be shared, it cannot be transferred. I guess I made my point here.

Yeah, the Activa and the Pulsar are different breeds, not to be compared in driving pleasure. But then have you wondered why there is no Enfield Bullet automatic?

PS: I don't hate the technology of the Canon EOS, it is impressive, convenient and even my kid uses it. But we still sketch!
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Old 20th December 2014, 21:24   #437
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Manual transmission all the way for me. Learnt on it, love it, will always love it. Why? because I dont trust the automatics,the electronics and also because I would like to decide.
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Old 20th December 2014, 21:52   #438
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Here is the thing that I have had in my mind for some time.

People opt for fancy DCT/DSG box for ease of use and convenience over a manual in day to day traffic conditions right? But then 2-3 years down the lane you get these reports of these gearboxes going kaput because of use in "extreme conditions". Read long bumper to bumper traffic conditions. So you pay 2-4 lakh premium for the auto, so that you can rest your left leg in traffic and just when the warranty runs out your fancy gearbox gets knackered and leaves you with another 2-4 lakh bill.
I don't know but this whole fancy dual clutch box seems more of a pain in the neck than convenience to me. Ha ha.

Last edited by nakul0888 : 20th December 2014 at 22:16.
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Old 20th December 2014, 22:21   #439
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

One big drawback with automatics in India is that most low to mid range automatics don't come with safety equipment like airbags for unknown reasons. For example, Swift DZire, Celerio and Tata Zest have auto versions but no airbags are available in them.

Automatics are the way forward and hopefully the adoption rate will increase in the coming years.
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Old 20th December 2014, 22:40   #440
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by sun_king View Post
I do not understand the mindset of some folks who just dismiss the "fun to drive" factor and bring up affordability with sweeping generalization.
Just a little thought experiment would dispel your doubts. How many people, do you think, would be buying manuals if they were 1L more expensive than automatic transmissions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
So you pay 2-4 lakh premium for the auto, so that you can rest your left leg in traffic and just when the warranty runs out your fancy gearbox gets knackered and leaves you with another 2-4 lakh bill.
How many dual clutch transmissions had issues? The one you are refering to is the DQ200, and that issue has been sorted out lately. No other dual clutch automatics from VW had failures. DCTs from Ford, BMW and Mercs did not have any issues. You can't take the DQ200 issues and use to abuse all dual clutch transmissions.

It is okay to try to win arguments, but please try to do it objectively.

Last edited by civic-sense : 20th December 2014 at 22:56.
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Old 20th December 2014, 23:09   #441
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Cool Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Long ago I had voted for an AT and I guess I was in minority and still am.

2 years hence, I'm living that dream. I have been using an AT for almost a year now and am thoroughly satisfied with it. I recently took it for a long drive comprising a mix of smooth roads and ghats. Initially I was a bit apprehensive about the performance of the automatic in the ghats, but all my doubts were short lived as the car performed well. I also got a decent FE of 16.5 for a 1500+ KM trip that too for a petrol slush box

Can't think of moving back to an MT now!

Last edited by @Chaand : 20th December 2014 at 23:13.
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Old 20th December 2014, 23:12   #442
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by sun_king View Post
MT all the way, my machine, my rules. I may want to drive at 70 in second gear just for the heck of it and would be disappointed if my machine decided that 4th is the smarter choice.
sun_king, I think you should try the new AMT what you said is possible, it an actual MT without the clutch! Just that it downshifts below 1100 RPM or so automatically. Essentially, you get all the thrills of an MT without the clutch! You may not get converted, but you should give it a try, its worth it! (HINT: Check out the AMT in Celerio, and try doing 70 in 2nd gear, it will work )
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Old 20th December 2014, 23:25   #443
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

The best part of living away from any city is never to think of an automatic.
But, traffic or no traffic, I prefer muscle memory (manual) over motor memory for that in control feel .
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Old 20th December 2014, 23:34   #444
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

The best part of living away from any city is never to think of an automatic.
But, traffic or no traffic, I prefer muscle memory (manual) over motor memory for that in control feel .
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Old 20th December 2014, 23:42   #445
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sun_king View Post
I do not understand the mindset of some folks who just dismiss the "fun to drive" factor and bring up affordability with sweeping generalization.

If someone asks me why I do the sketching, I say it's just for the fun of it. Now you can say that I have never used a printer, camera and a photocopier or that I cannot afford any of these. These may be true, but even then it does not change the fact that I love to sketch. The fun is mine to enjoy, it cannot be shared, it cannot be transferred. I guess I made my point here.
Good analogy there and I get the essence of what you are trying to convey.

But, art is very subjective and personal, isn't it? Some people actually enjoy taking pictures using a camera. For such people, photography IS fun. Similarly, for some people like me, driving an automatic tranny with a lot of power is more fun than driving an underpowered puny manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sun_king View Post
Yeah, the Activa and the Pulsar are different breeds, not to be compared in driving pleasure. But then have you wondered why there is no Enfield Bullet automatic?
Well, because Enfield wouldn't bother spending so much money on R&D for a 'niche-within-niche' segment. FYI, brands like Honda do make powerful bikes/scooters with automatic transmissions for niche markets.

Blindly equating 'fun to drive' with 'manual transmissions' is a fallacy. IMHO, other aspects such as power, ergonomics, ride & handling contribute to making an automobile 'fun to drive'.

Since you like analogies, let me pique your mind with this comparison. Which car do you think would be more fun to drive, a Bugatti Veyron AT or a Maruti 800 MT?
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Old 20th December 2014, 23:57   #446
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Just a little thought experiment would dispel your doubts. How many people, do you think, would be buying manuals if they were 1L more expensive than automatic transmissions?
We will never know, right? Could have checked the sales of 2014 Honda City iVTEC SV CVT vs the V and VX iDTECs, but then the fuel varies and the V has more goodies too. But it is an indirect indicator that people are willing to forgo the awesomeness of the AT in favor of other factors despite the fact that the MT in discussion is costlier!

What I could recall in terms of similar machinery but with different transmissions is the Hero Honda CD100/Splendor and the extinct Hero Honda Street bikes. I won't blame you if you have never heard of the Street, the clutch-less wonder with the step through rotary gear shift. I need to resort to two wheelers here because the disparities in car segments means any data will be contested.

I would agree that in the hypothetical scenario the sales of the AT will increase. You just addressed the concern of 172 folks [As on 12:00 AM, 21 December 2014, "I don't think the cost premium (75 - 100K) is worth it"]. Most of the 403 will stay with MT just as I would.
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Old 21st December 2014, 00:47   #447
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by ashwin489 View Post

Blindly equating 'fun to drive' with 'manual transmissions' is a fallacy. IMHO, other aspects such as power, ergonomics, ride & handling contribute to making an automobile 'fun to drive'.
Won't do that. Both are fun, I have enjoyed both, but for some one of these will be more fun for reasons specific to him/her. That is what this poll is about, "why?".

Quote:
Since you like analogies, let me pique your mind with this comparison. Which car do you think would be more fun to drive, a Bugatti Veyron AT or a Maruti 800 MT?
Veyron please, and NOT because of its transmission.

But iVTEC SV over iVTEC SV CVT in real life. All other things being equal, consciously decided to pick MT over AT.
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Old 21st December 2014, 07:20   #448
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
People opt for fancy DCT/DSG box for ease of use and convenience over a manual in day to day traffic conditions right?
IMO, dual-clutch gearboxes are pretty mainstream nowadays and not really a fancy option. And irrespective of a DSG/DCT or regular AT, the difference between a MT and an AT is around a lakh I guess, and not 2-4 lakhs (e.g.; VW Jetta).
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Old 21st December 2014, 07:44   #449
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sun_king View Post
We will never know, right? Could have checked the sales of 2014 Honda City iVTEC SV CVT vs the V and VX iDTECs, but then the fuel varies and the V has more goodies too. But it is an indirect indicator that people are willing to forgo the awesomeness of the AT in favor of other factors despite the fact that the MT in discussion is costlier!
Of course, in the absence of data, we could extrapolate from available data. Look at the Celerio. The AMT is selling in good numbers (several times than ATs in Wagon R and DZire), because the price difference is just 50K. So that is proof enough that price was the major factor that was keeping the masses away from the AT. Heck, if the masses cared about fun-to-drive cars, Ford, VW and Fiat would have been topping the charts, not Maruti and Hyundai.
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Old 21st December 2014, 08:00   #450
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Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post


How many dual clutch transmissions had issues? The one you are refering to is the DQ200, and that issue has been sorted out lately. No other dual clutch automatics from VW had failures. DCTs from Ford, BMW and Mercs did not have any issues. You can't take the DQ200 issues and use to abuse all dual clutch transmissions.

It is okay to try to win arguments, but please try to do it objectively.
It is not just the DQ200 transmission that goes bust. Internationally all VW group DSG boxes were known to give problems, from the polo all the way to Audi's RS5 when used in a non optimum manner. BMW transmissions are known to give away too. I think i just read one case in this forum itself. The point is these cars are not abuse friendly like a Toyota with a manual and when used in ways other than the manufacture describes as optimum tends to go bust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
IMO, dual-clutch gearboxes are pretty mainstream nowadays and not really a fancy option. And irrespective of a DSG/DCT or regular AT, the difference between a MT and an AT is around a lakh I guess, and not 2-4 lakhs (e.g.; VW Jetta).
Thats the D segment. Climb up the ladder and I am pretty sure the difference between manual and auto widens. Internationally BMW 3,5 series and Audi A4, A6 's are also available in manual. In these cases I don't think the difference is going to be 1 lakh between the auto and manual

Last edited by nakul0888 : 21st December 2014 at 08:04.
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