Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


View Poll Results: No Automatic for me because:
Fuel-efficiency concerns 236 18.64%
I love Manual transmissions! 507 40.05%
AT option is unavailable on my choice of car (including diesels) 386 30.49%
I don't think the cost premium (75 - 100K) is worth it 210 16.59%
Maintenance concerns 150 11.85%
Other reason (please specify in your post) 36 2.84%
Not applicable. My next car WILL be an Automatic 287 22.67%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 1266. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd July 2015, 17:58   #691
BHPian
 
motorworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 532
Thanked: 200 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

A lot of valid points in MT vs AT.

Fun factor? Surely MT is way better than the conventional ATs and the new "built to cost" AMTs. However, something like a TSI-DSG combination is equally fun in the real world scenarios, but these DSGs are not really mass market driven in India since they are not being offered by Hyundai or Maruti and secondly the premium they come with.

But the current scene in India is worrysome. instead of moving from CVT to DSG, we are moving towards AMT, which means dual clutch boxes may not be made in a big way and rather, automakers such as Maruti, Tata will flood the market with AMTs, which is not a bad thing, but the not the real deal either. So India never gets affordable Dual clutch trannies and we are stuck with AMTs forever!
motorworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2015, 18:13   #692
BHPian
 
kp1992's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 79
Thanked: 49 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Voted for I don't think the cost premium (75 - 100K) is worth it.
Reason: The extra premium paid (in this case 75 -100k) can instead be well spent on upgrading the car performance
Jokes apart, I wouldn't prefer an Auto Transmission vehicle just because of the hassles associated with it. I know the latest generation cars come with some slick shifting Auto boxes, but the fear of failure is what concerns me more.
But when it comes to others in my family they would prefer an automatic over the manual, probably at the end of the day it all boils down to an individual's perspective. In my case, Manual it is. Period!

Last edited by kp1992 : 3rd July 2015 at 18:14.
kp1992 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2015, 19:19   #693
BHPian
 
ashua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Pune
Posts: 90
Thanked: 69 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
Most members of this esteemed group are city folks. Who more likely to be more baised towards AT than against it. If the poll was open to the masses , it would be even more skewed towards the MT. I don't see any threat to the MT position in the volume market for at-least a decade.
Yup, and I wasn't suggesting it would tilt towards AT either.
I was trying to say that the cost factor and mileage would come up as top factors if it was open to the masses rather than the 'Performance factor' as suggested by Lalvaz.

Timeframe is anybody's guess.
Fun fact: US has had more than 80% of its cars AT since as early as 1957
Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/19/us...tion-comeback/
ashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2015, 20:02   #694
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 29
Thanked: 11 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Voted for 'Maintenance concerns'. My next car would have been a VW\Skoda AT if the DSG was more reliable. And if I were to drive in Bangalore traffic, I would go for a compact car with AMT without a second thought. It comes down to individual choices based on circumstances. At the moment, it is 'Maintenance concerns' for me.
ThomasZach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2015, 23:11   #695
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vizag
Posts: 1,828
Thanked: 953 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post

What exactly is your argument? That ATs have merit only because some premium carmakers- none of whose cars most of us here would be able to afford in our lifetimes- offer them as mandatory? I'd rather rely on my own experience.
My argument is that there is a marked shift slowly towards AT even in Indian market. I don't know how hard is that to understand. It is not "just some" premium car-makers. Today, at lowest end of car market, MUL and Tata are going in for AMT. They were doing fine even without AMT. Well, at least MUL was. No one asked them to go for AMT. They saw future in it so they got into this. All I'm saying is AT is here to stay and it is MT that will see decline in coming years. In fact some had even gone on to write MT's obituary. Now that is too hypothetical and I do not see it that way. Both will co-exist but AT's share will increase several fold from where it stands today.

BTW, strange how you want MT lovers to stay on the thread and argue but not the AT lovers.
pgsagar is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2015, 07:34   #696
BHPian
 
nakul0888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: kochi
Posts: 324
Thanked: 726 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

I am stretching the boundaries of the topic a little bitt- But an interesting phenomenon none the less.
You know how Ferrari has stopped making manuals for their cars.
Well it seems those few who did get them instead of moving with the herd and getting a flappy paddle is in for a treat. How you might ask?

Well we all know that most supercars depreciate like falling of a cliff, right?
Well that is not the case with a manual Ferrari. A used flappy paddle 599 sells for less than half its original price now thanks to goddess depreciation. But a used manual 599 is going for more than twice its original value. Yup read that correctly. If you brought your manual 599 when it was launched at say $300000, now its selling for more than half a million dollars. Some say investing in the last of the few modern manual ferraris is even better than putting money in a bank. Talk about Financial planning.

Seems manual isn't dead yet. I bet Ferrari could pull a number in the future by releasing limited numbers of manual transmission cars at a substantial premium and make a killing out of it.

Last edited by nakul0888 : 4th July 2015 at 07:38.
nakul0888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2015, 07:50   #697
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 28
Thanked: 20 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Being relatively new to the car world my choice was mainly because of the concerns over FE figures associated with auto transmission cars. It is a common assumption among the lesser informed car buyers in India which form a major chunk of people who usually avoid opting for automatic. Plus combine that with the resale value of automatic cars which is dirt cheap when compared to their manual counterparts. Maybe the trend is changing now (for good) since we see a decent number of AMTs/Automatics on roads these days.
Resh@22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2015, 08:45   #698
BHPian
 
pamiboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cochin
Posts: 259
Thanked: 98 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamarind View Post
I am not the expert here, but i was under the impression that CVT's are costlier to maintain than AMT's.
What's your experience about it ? And more over, when i read about the internal operations of AMT and CVT's the first thing which came to my mind is that the power loss due to friction and heat dissipation can be putting CVT's one step back compared to AMT's. What is your view ?
With fewer moving parts than a regular automatic transmission, the CVTs should be less prone to wear and tear or mechanical breakdown. At least theoretically the CVTs have an edge in fuel economy over regular automatics and manuals. That's one of the reasons the larger cars such as new generation Accord, Nissan Altima, etc have moved on to CVTs in spite of their "rubber band effect".
I don't have any experience with AMTs but I presume they are useful only for small cars with smaller displacement engines.

For all those performance oriented "manual transmission enthusiasts", here is a message from the BMW "M" performance boss Frank van Meel. I've pasted a part of the article below. In short he says that with fewer and fewer takers worldwide the manual transmission is a dying breed. I can't tell how true his words are, but I presume they know a few things about raw performance than us simple folks. This may not particularly apply to India since unlike western world where manual shifts are used primarily by performance enthusiasts, here people buy them mostly because it is cheaper and due to the perceived fuel economy benefits (however small it may be).

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...for-this-world


[By Stephen Edelstein 18,020 views Jul 6, 2015
Manual transmissions have fallen out of favor with mainstream buyers, but hardcore enthusiasts aren't giving up on them. So surely BMW's M division, maker of performance cars that specifically target the enthusiast market, will be a safe haven for the clutch pedal for the time being. Or maybe not. Recent improvements in the performance of automatic transmissions and the proliferation of dual-clutch gearboxes could soon spell the end of manuals at BMW M, the division's chief claims. Current enthusiasm among buyers may be the only thing keeping them in production.

"From a technical standpoint, the future doesn't look bright for manual gearboxes. The DCT and auto 'boxes are faster and they have better fuel consumption," BMW M chief Frank van Meel said in a recent interview with Autocar.
Number-focused engineers are increasingly turning to automated transmissions for performance improvements, and stricter global emissions standards mean fuel economy is a concern even for sporty cars.]

Last edited by pamiboy : 7th July 2015 at 09:14.
pamiboy is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2015, 11:25   #699
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 1,893
Thanked: 1,780 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

My take, in the larger perspective. We the human race are fast heading towards a future where in we don't want to think or utilise a skill, we would rather have computers think for us and electronics/robotics perform the actions. Eventually in cars we would move towards driverless cars and driving would be restricted to controlled areas like a track, or may be computer games. Moving from manual shift towards auto boxes is one of the early steps in this directions, slowly we will have auto brakes, auto acceleration, auto direction control, steering and finally autonomous cars with no steering wheels. Higher costs of insurance and legislation will drive us there, make no mistake.
apachelongbow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2015, 12:29   #700
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 118
Thanked: 78 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Eventually in cars we would move towards driverless cars and driving would be restricted to controlled areas like a track, or may be computer games.
Oh Yes, I think we will be there in couple of years or a decade not more. Being petrol heads, we would still be debating on topics like, is a windshield really needed for a car and how can the space be utilized.

The defenition of a purist or a driving enthusiast changes with time as what is happening now for an auto box. It took me and few others long time to realize the advantages and capabilities of an auto box. Rest will also join sooner.
varunanb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2015, 14:12   #701
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 105
Thanked: 297 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

I voted for "My next car will be automatic"
I like manual cars but in the crowded cities I'd prefer automatic. On open roads I'd prefer manuals any day but in these cities where you take hours to just cover 5 kilometers, fully automatic would be preferable not just fpr gear/clutch even steering/gas too (google cars).
kozhissery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2015, 14:47   #702
BHPian
 
FuelInjector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: TN38
Posts: 368
Thanked: 252 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

i voted for manual transmissions. The main reason is the feel factor i get when depressing the clutch at high rpm and push the gear lever to the next position.
Before buying my current car, i had test driven honda city automatic. Had taken it to nice road where i tried to overtake a palio. there was this 'zzz' moment where the machine made the driver think whether its possible to overtake.
That moment i decided against the automatics.
But since then, must say the technology has changed and driveability factors as well. Had test driven an automatic Fortuner last week and that was a good beast.
Like @apachelongbow mentions above, agree we might all move to driverless vehicles in the future. But rest assured only after our time.
FuelInjector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2015, 16:12   #703
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 989
Thanked: 584 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post
Could you highlight where did he mention the supposed sentence?
He he he, there's a whole thread dedicated to his comments right here on Team BHP.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tatements.html (Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements)

To quote from the article "“People are talking of car safety and we have about 1.5 lakh road fatalities, therefore cars should be made more safe. None of these people have established any link between the number of deaths and cars. If you actually look at the data, there is huge difference. One point is that in the EU, 50% of the road fatalities are inside cars, but in India it is 16%. This is because two-wheelers and pedestrians are far higher,” Bhargava said. He said that a “commercial angle” is always present in pushing such technologies.

“Somebody wants to sell an airbag, what does he do? He pushes the safety angle. Nobody has yet proved that unsafe cars are the reason for higher road fatalities,”"

BTW, this poll is from 2011, but people are still voting, and the results are still heavily in favour of manual cars, so the new models have not changed the overall preference for manual yet.
Lalvaz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2015, 17:44   #704
BHPian
 
pamiboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cochin
Posts: 259
Thanked: 98 Times
Default So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
My take, in the larger perspective. We the human race are fast heading towards a future where in we don't want to think or utilise a skill, we would rather have computers think for us and electronics/robotics perform the actions. Eventually in cars we would move towards driverless cars and driving would be restricted to controlled areas. Moving from manual shift towards auto boxes is one of the early steps in this directions, slowly we will have auto brakes, auto acceleration, auto direction control, steering and finally autonomous cars with no steering wheels. Higher costs of insurance and legislation will drive us there, make no mistake.

Very true. But most of the technology you've mentioned already exists in the top range luxury cars. Mercedes distronic for example does almost everything you mentioned. It can travel through congested lanes (with proper lane markings of course) or it can be set to follow a car at night (even doing 90 degree turns autonomously). Intelligent cruise control takes care of automatic acceleration and braking at higher speeds on the highway. The one thing it won't do is stop at a red signal on its own unless a car in front has stopped (which I presume is due to legal reasons more than technological feasibility). So mostly we are there at least in technology aspect.

Last edited by pamiboy : 7th July 2015 at 17:51.
pamiboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2015, 19:52   #705
BHPian
 
SchumiFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 765
Thanked: 580 Times
Default Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
He he he, there's a whole thread dedicated to his comments right here on Team BHP.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tatements.html (Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements)

To quote from the article "“People are talking of car safety and we have about 1.5 lakh road fatalities, therefore cars should be made more safe. None of these people have established any link between the number of deaths and cars. If you actually look at the data, there is huge difference. One point is that in the EU, 50% of the road fatalities are inside cars, but in India it is 16%. This is because two-wheelers and pedestrians are far higher,” Bhargava said. He said that a “commercial angle” is always present in pushing such technologies.

“Somebody wants to sell an airbag, what does he do? He pushes the safety angle. Nobody has yet proved that unsafe cars are the reason for higher road fatalities,”"

BTW, this poll is from 2011, but people are still voting, and the results are still heavily in favour of manual cars, so the new models have not changed the overall preference for manual yet.
You paraphrased it in that way. There is no direct quote from him saying so. The number of pedestrians, two wheeler users who die are considerably high (25% of road accident deaths according to data from SLF). So he has a point in asking if there is a stat saying that Airbags might reduce the fatality rate in India.

Also you do know that votes cannot be changed in this poll right? So people who now have a car of their choice in AT cannot change their votes. Currently 53% have preferred their cars to be ATs but couldn't do so because of lack of choices which has changed considerably now.

Anyway, it's a free world, you have your choice, I have mine.

I have already gone a lot off-topic in my reply, so Peace out!
SchumiFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Santro Automatic to buy or not to buy? GeekSrik Hatchbacks 18 24th March 2012 15:27
why we don't see any agitation over MPs involvement in scandals vivekiny2k Shifting gears 3 22nd December 2005 17:07
Why foreign manufacturers don't sell small cars in India sbasak The Indian Car Scene 25 14th November 2005 08:41
Why I don't like Maruti? prkothan The Indian Car Scene 12 17th August 2005 21:55


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 00:31.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks