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Old 30th November 2011, 14:24   #16
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

Friends! I was under impression that the Engine plant was owned by 50:50: by Fiat & Tata motors. If this is true, then Tata's also making profit (or reduce the loss in the bigger plant)
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Old 30th November 2011, 14:51   #17
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

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Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
So far Maruti has been manufacturing engines under license from Fiat. So they could brand the engine as DDiS.

Now, Maruti will be "buying" the engine directly from Fiat. So, will the engines be branded as DDiS or Fiat?
More importantly - what will the state of tune for these engines?

IMO Maruti's DDiS version has a better state of tuning compared to FIAT's own Multijet versions.
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Old 30th November 2011, 15:05   #18
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
More importantly - what will the state of tune for these engines?

IMO Maruti's DDiS version has a better state of tuning compared to FIAT's own Multijet versions.
Earlier once, one top Maruti official had said that if engines have to be bought from Fiat, they will be homologated according to Maruti's DDiS. So, no need to worry, IMO.
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Old 30th November 2011, 15:11   #19
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Let me add that Fiat as an engine supplier has kept them going

1: Fiat wriggled out of an unhappy alliance with GM by licencing its diesel engines to GM cars.

2: This provided an excellent revenue stream for Fiat

3: This now helps Fiat meets its fixed overheads in India by selling to Maruti as well as Tata
But even if the technology would be from Fiat isn't the facility that would be be making the engines a JV between TATA and Fiat. Wouldn't the sale of engines (from spare capacity due to fiat not selling in adequate numbers in India) at that plant benefit both TATA and Fiat financially in that JV Plant?
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Old 30th November 2011, 15:31   #20
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Earlier once, one top Maruti official had said that if engines have to be bought from Fiat, they will be homologated according to Maruti's DDiS. So, no need to worry, IMO.
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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
More importantly - what will the state of tune for these engines?

IMO Maruti's DDiS version has a better state of tuning compared to FIAT's own Multijet versions.
I doubt Maruti makes any major changes to DDiS(just a badge), the mechanical bits will be common. I am sure the factory will have the capability to manufacture according to MSIL specifications, the original is Fiat's anyway. Now, if only they could sell cars which carried the same badge as the engine - it will quite a leap for Fiat in India.
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Old 30th November 2011, 15:41   #21
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

The only question I have is what kind of engines are Fiat going to sell. Just the 1.3L in two state of tunes? I would be happy if Maruti starts buying more types and this could be a step in that direction. I believe Maruti was indeed buying engines from Fiat before as well; or was it just a license and Maruti was manufacturing the engines themselves?

I had read that Maruti has already signed up with Fiat for the 1.6L MJD as well, may be foe the next gen SX4! And is this 1Lakh engines additional to the license for the 2.5Lakh or so engines that Maruti could use previously taking the total volume of engine to 3.5Lakh units a year?

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 30th November 2011 at 15:43.
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Old 30th November 2011, 17:06   #22
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
IMO Maruti's DDiS version has a better state of tuning compared to FIAT's own Multijet versions.
Well, I don't consider Maruti's DDiS to be superior to Fiat's MJD. If your remarks on the 'better state of tuning' is based on the 0-100 timings, then I say that the stupid gear-box with weird gear ratios of Fiat GP IND is responsible for slower 0-100 timings, then the engine tuning.
  • Maruti Swift does 0-100 in 13.87 seconds [1]
  • Fiat GP (IND Version) does 0-100 in 17.84 seconds [2]
  • Fiat GP (UK Version) does 0-100 in 13.6 seconds [3]

So, if the 0-100 timings of reputed car magazines are anything to go by, then I believe that Fiat can produce engines which're on par with the ones produced by Maruti, if not better. CrazyDriver, all in all you don't need to worry.

PS: The 0-100 timings are sourced from, [1] & [2]: Auto Car India & [3] : Yahoo Cars UK
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Old 30th November 2011, 18:17   #23
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

This should give Fiat the financial stability to have one more serious crack at the passenger car segment. The Fiat brand is in the doldrums. So why not go with the Chrysler badge in India? Chevrolet worked out fine for GM after discontinuing Opel.

An internal audit and a complete overhaul of how they make, market, sell and service is the need of the hour at Fiat India. In short, a fresh start. It is an option worth exploring as alternative scenarios look grim.

The new Linea as seen on another thread looks more Dodge/Chrysler than a Fiat anyway. So why not take the plunge?
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Old 30th November 2011, 18:45   #24
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

The engine final power and drivability is a factor of the cars weight, tuning, gearing (tall, short etc.). The other components fitted on and they way they are fitted also make difference. There would be negligible differences in the Maruti and Fiat engine block and basic engine structure, it is the other stuff that one adds on that leads to the final difference. Maruti will ofcourse continue to use the DDIS name and the customer would not even come to know which factory the basic block (read engine) is sourced from. Yes the license to use limit would obviously be increased as much as desired as when under license one pays x amount per unit and the more the number the better for FIAT. It is a win win all around. Fiat, Maruti and TATA (via the JV).

Infact it would be nice to see the final sales per month that the Swift and Dzire can go to if the lead time is short. That of course will affect numbers for Ritz, Polo, vista, Figo, Punto, I20 etc as the number of people moving to other brands/ models just on account of the wait period would be removed if the lead time over the long terms drops to just about a month. But I guess all other brands too have their own following it is not that all their sales is only on account of being turned down by Maruti on account of lead times.

Lastly the customer too would benifit as presently there is no incentive for Maruti to drop prices of the swift though it is not really priced that competitively compared to say it's own ritz etc, once the lead time is removed the demand flexibility factor will come in and it will be then that swift prices will also start matching the demand supply curve.
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Old 30th November 2011, 19:46   #25
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

It sure is a win-win situation for both Maruti and Fiat, but before saying so, won't the excise duty on diesel cars be hiked in 2012 ?

It's still only in the proposal stage, will it be like what happened in July this year where after a lot of rumors of ED being hiked, it was clarified that no such hike is planned ?

Going by the move by Maruti, we can be reasonably sure that there won't be any such hike in future, i don't think Maruti would've signed the agreement if they'd known that the excise would be hiked for sure this time.

Maruti is clearly planning ahead for the demand it anticipates for the Swift and the Swift Dzire to be launched in 2012.
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Old 1st December 2011, 09:32   #26
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
It sure is a win-win situation for both Maruti and Fiat, but before saying so, won't the excise duty on diesel cars be hiked in 2012 ?

It's still only in the proposal stage, will it be like what happened in July this year where after a lot of rumors of ED being hiked, it was clarified that no such hike is planned ?

Going by the move by Maruti, we can be reasonably sure that there won't be any such hike in future, i don't think Maruti would've signed the agreement if they'd known that the excise would be hiked for sure this time.

Maruti is clearly planning ahead for the demand it anticipates for the Swift and the Swift Dzire to be launched in 2012.
I think it would be safe to assume even with an excise hike/whatever other government plans, people who have tasted blood, the low running cost and phenomenal mileage of the diesel would hardly go back to petrol. The ratio might shift to saner levels when the GOI decides that the current 40% difference is unsustainable.

There were rumours about car companies lobbying to hike diesel prices so that their inventories of petrol would come down and also capital investments on petrol variant capacity would not be wasted. If the prices go back to the earlier 20% difference, I see Honda emerging as a major player, once the Thai situation improves.
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Old 1st December 2011, 10:59   #27
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

I dont think there will be Maruti specs and Fiat delivers. Infact its reverse, Maruti can not modify any parameter in the engine except the electronic control. More over all fiat produced engines are high tolerance and many of us aware 90 bhp engine needs atleast 5K kms run-in to reach optimum performance. Expect many people complains poor FE and poor acceleration for the fiat sourced engines in the initial stage.

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Old 1st December 2011, 11:27   #28
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Smile Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

Imagine a diesel Eeco, could be a killer for the taxi market and compete with Indica.
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Old 1st December 2011, 11:34   #29
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

With swift dzire cs coming sometime in 2012 we might see maruti selling 30K diesels per month (swift+dzire+ritz+sx4).
It must be actually a calculated effort from maruti despite the concerns regarding the taxation of diesel cars.

Maybe the WagonR might share the same DDiS engine as well.

Now its high time,hyundai should plan introducing mass selling diesel cars. Diesel manufacturing unit to boost up.
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Old 1st December 2011, 12:31   #30
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

Good news for Maruti and Fiat and bad news for Hyundai, Ford, Honda, Toyota, etc. More diesel engines available to Maruti means more sales of there diesel cars like Swift, Dzire, Ritz & SX4. Surely it will impact sales of others like Figo, i20, Beat, Polo etc.

Good move by Maruti
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