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Old 1st December 2011, 12:36   #31
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

Along with the purchase, there would most definitely be a back to back re-branding arrangement to keep these engines branded as DDIS. The DDIS monicker itself has become synonymous with Maruti, never mind the fact that these are actually retuned Fiat engines. To change that monicker and sell Suzukis with other branding would probably not be a wise marketing and sales strategy.
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Old 26th December 2011, 22:38   #32
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Default Tata Motors agrees to Maruti Suzuki's plea to source diesel engines from Fiat

Got a mailer from Cartrade India stating that Tata Motors has agreed to Fiat supplying diesel engines to Maruti Suzuki India Ltd so that MSIL can supply Diesel models faster, to help clear the backlog.

Quote:
India's leading car manufacturer Maruti Suzuki India Limited received consent from Tata Motors to source diesel engines from Fiat India. The business agreement will enable Maruti Suzuki to reduce the waiting period for diesel versions of flagship brands like Swift, Swift DZire, SX4 and Ritz. This approval from Fiat India, which has a joint venture with Tata Motors Limited for Indian operations, came after series of discussions for over six months.
Wonder what Tata gets out of this.

PS. - Mods, Searched the forum for an existing thread around this article before posting. Please merge with an existing thread if present.
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Old 26th December 2011, 22:46   #33
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Default Re: Tata Motors agrees to Maruti Suzuki's plea to source diesel engines from Fiat

This is very interesting. The games being played in the corporate world. But could Tata's really veto on this and prevent Fiat from going ahead and providing engines? If true its a very generous gesture on part of Tata as they will be amongst the top companies which stands to gain out of the huge waiting periods of MSIL.
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Old 26th December 2011, 22:49   #34
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Default Re: Tata Motors agrees to Maruti Suzuki's plea to source diesel engines from Fiat

So the wheel has turned full circle!
There was a press report earlier in which Mr Ratan Tata was quoted as saying that Tata-Fiat JV had wanted to source Fiat diesel engines from Maruti's plant so as to avoid the trouble of setting up a separate assembly line. However Maruti had refused.
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Old 26th December 2011, 23:01   #35
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Default Re: Tata Motors agrees to Maruti Suzuki's plea to source diesel engines from Fiat

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
This is very interesting. The games being played in the corporate world. But could Tata's really veto on this and prevent Fiat from going ahead and providing engines? If true its a very generous gesture on part of Tata as they will be amongst the top companies which stands to gain out of the huge waiting periods of MSIL.
Fiat India is a 50-50 JV of Fiat Spa and Tata Motors, yes tata could veto on this.
In return they should maybe ask for the idle dies of old swift for their own plant so that they could give vista a "facelift"
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Old 27th December 2011, 07:58   #36
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Default Re: Tata Motors agrees to Maruti Suzuki's plea to source diesel engines from Fiat

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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
There was a press report earlier in which Mr Ratan Tata was quoted as saying that Tata-Fiat JV had wanted to source Fiat diesel engines from Maruti's plant so as to avoid the trouble of setting up a separate assembly line. However Maruti had refused.
There is a history to this. Earlier before Suzuki set up its own plant, they had approached Fiat-TATA if they could do it combined. But Fiat-Tata were not ready for this, so Suzuki set up its own plant. Neither Fiat, not Tata are doing this good. Moreover, if we think on a global scale then Fiat and Suzuki might be looking forward to a deeper collaboration and hence the deal was finalized for India. Not sure, but this move is surely going to help MSIL.

Last edited by mobike008 : 19th January 2012 at 17:01. Reason: fixed quote tag
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Old 19th January 2012, 10:12   #37
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

Just heard that the logistics have been worked out. MJD production for Maruti will start at Ranjangaon in the 4th week of January. Commitment is 100,000 engines per year for 3 years.
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Old 19th January 2012, 10:31   #38
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

1 lakh engines. If Fiat makes a clean 20K per engine in terms of Indian Rupees, (Wild guess), it still would amount to 40M$ per year in terms of revenue. Thats straight profit, but is that not Paltry.

Selling a car would simply be more profitable if they can manage it I guess. Its not selling alone that counts, but maintaining the car for its life would add a lot to their bank accounts. [Correct me if I am wrong]. Only if Fiat felt this more than we all did :(
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Old 19th January 2012, 13:46   #39
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

1 lakh 1.3 lts 75 bhp MJD engine for 3 years , what happens to innovation ? How would Maruti tackle market shift ? Why are they not investing in diesel technology ? They are not Honda for whom India is a small portion , Maruti's fate decides whether Suzuki gets a Wasabi Shushi or a roadside vendor shushi so why are they not building their own capabilities ? MJD is an old (reliable) technology but with the European biggies getting serious in India ( VW, Peugeot,etc) the diesel market is transforming big time .. I do not see 1.3 lts 75 bhps satisfying us for long, right now only it seems puny! Remember how Bajaj walloped Hero ( Honda) when the bike markets changed from 100 cc to 135 -150 cc ? Should Maruti wait to get walloped in the market before trying to think about the bigger engines ?
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Old 19th January 2012, 14:09   #40
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Red face Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

I was just wondering what is the capacity of diesel engine production of Fiat in India? Now that Maruti would be needing annually 30K units, and there is Fiats own consumption, add to that Tata's requirment. Is Fiat able to produce that many diesel engines annually or would it ramp up the production sooner or later? I would like to know Fiat production capacity if anyone knows it.

I also read in the forum somwhere that MS will come out with Diesel Wagon R in the coming days and with Ertiga showcased in Auto Expo also proposed to come with 1.3 diesel, how will Maruti allocate the 30K odd engines to various models -read Ritz, Swift, Swift Dzire, SX4. Oh this is so confusing.
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Old 19th January 2012, 14:23   #41
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
I was just wondering what is the capacity of diesel engine production of Fiat in India? Now that Maruti would be needing annually 30K units, and there is Fiats own consumption, add to that Tata's requirment. Is Fiat able to produce that many diesel engines annually or would it ramp up the production sooner or later? I would like to know Fiat production capacity if anyone knows it.
Please look at the figures, it is 100000 engines/year that are supplied to Maruti.

Fiat signs deal to supply diesel engines to Maruti Suzuki India - The Economic Times
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Old 19th January 2012, 15:28   #42
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
I was just wondering what is the capacity of diesel engine production of Fiat in India? Now that Maruti would be needing annually 30K units, and there is Fiats own consumption, add to that Tata's requirment. Is Fiat able to produce that many diesel engines annually or would it ramp up the production sooner or later? I would like to know Fiat production capacity if anyone knows it.
The Ranjangaon plant has the capacity to make 3,00,000 engines annually and so, considering the production figures of Tata and Fiat cars, is quite underutilised.
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Old 19th January 2012, 15:44   #43
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
I was just wondering what is the capacity of diesel engine production of Fiat in India? Now that Maruti would be needing annually 30K units, ...
You meant 30K monthly? I guess this 1 lakh is in addition to what Maruti already manufacturers. So assuming Maruti has license to make 2.5L engines a year [MJD], now the total capacity should be 3.5L which is 30K per month.

Out of this 17K for Swift, 12K for Dzire, 6K for Ritz, 1K for SX4, Ertiga - 3K? With this calculation, they still lack by around 10K units per month I guess, once Wagon R also will be launched with an MJD option!

And what ACI speculates is Maruti might have been quoted some atrocious figures for the engines. May be one of the reasons for the series of hikes on Maruti MJD models as well!
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Old 19th January 2012, 18:00   #44
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Out of this 17K for Swift, 12K for Dzire, 6K for Ritz, 1K for SX4, Ertiga - 3K? With this calculation, they still lack by around 10K units per month I guess, once Wagon R also will be launched with an MJD option!
Are you saying all the sales of Swift, Ritz and DZire are from Diesel models? Consider the split as 80-20, the total Diesel numbers will be around 30-32K. But again, we may need to add the Ertiga export target also!

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
And what ACI speculates is Maruti might have been quoted some atrocious figures for the engines. May be one of the reasons for the series of hikes on Maruti MJD models as well!
Might be true. That may be the reason why Swift and Ritz price is increased by 17K, while SX4 price is increased by just 2K. Because FIAT supplies the 75BHP model used in Swift and Ritz, and not the 90BHP VGT model used in SX4. If that is true, all the criticism that Maruti is milking the Swift demand and sparing SX4 because lack of demand, becomes baseless!

Last edited by romeomidhun : 19th January 2012 at 18:04.
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Old 19th January 2012, 18:11   #45
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Default Re: Maruti seals deal with Fiat to source 100,000 diesel engines per year

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Originally Posted by souravc View Post
Why are they not investing in diesel technology ?
Indian tradition of milking a cow till it dies. Yes, not dries but dies.
We simply do not want to do things different.
The way Hero-Honda went is going to be repeated in case of Maruti.
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