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Old 9th March 2012, 13:26   #61
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

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Originally Posted by patil View Post
I definetely disagree. Please go through the statistics and you will find that petrol is the highest contributor to pollution and it does not burn completely as the diesel. Hence petrol is less fuel efficient than the diesel and it emits more harmful pollutants than the diesel.
Sorry mate, but your information is totally wrong. It is petrol that burns clean, not diesel. Think about it - why do you not have particulate filters in petrol cars? Why talk about DPFs only for diesel vehicles?

Also, diesel is MORE polluting than petrol. Why? Because of the NOx emissions from diesel exhaust. You should know that there are several studies conducted by eminent research organizations that cite the carcinogenic effects of NOx emissions. Is it sad that auto manufacturers never talk about this aspect diesel vehicles. It's understandable that they avoid it, as it'll go against the rising wave of diesel sales in the country.

For more information, please read this: ECO Travel : Petrol vs Diesel There are several other comparison available online. If you find one that proves petrol engines have greater particulate matter emissions than the diesel ones, please share your source. It'll be interesting, to say the least.
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Old 9th March 2012, 13:34   #62
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

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Originally Posted by patil View Post
I definetely disagree. Please go through the statistics and you will find that petrol is the highest contributor to pollution and it does not burn completely as the diesel. Hence petrol is less fuel efficient than the diesel and it emits more harmful pollutants than the diesel.

In fact, should you have any confusions at all, please read this: Diesel Related Research

I think it's safe to say the California Air Resources Board (with one of the most stringent emission norms in the world) would have done its research before posting its findings on diesel exhaust.
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Old 9th March 2012, 13:53   #63
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

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Originally Posted by manojmis View Post
with 1.6 surpassing the excise duty benefit limit, don't think Honda can offer it to City. So, this move can only benefit the Civic.

Looks like, City and Jazz diesel is still a distant dream.
You're mistaken. Neither the City nor the Civic will qualify for lower excise duty, irrespective of the engine size, because they are over 4 meters in length. The excise benefit is only for cars under 4 meters in length with petrol engines under 1.2 liters and diesel engines under 1.5 liters. Therefore you are right abut the Jazz. Since excise duty is not a factor, it's very possible Honda will put it in the City.
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Old 9th March 2012, 14:25   #64
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

If we look subjectively at Civic's competitors (with Manual transmission) in the C+ segment,

Toyota Corolla Altis D4D comes with 88bhp; 205 Nm engine.
Renault Fluence Diesel comes with 106 bhp; 240 Nm engine.
Skoda Laura TDi Manual only comes with 110 bhp; 250 Nm engine.

The 2 cars in the segment which are more powerful than this
Honda 1.6 i-CTDI 118 bhp; 300Nm are:
VW Jetta TDI with 140 bhp; 320 Nm engine
Chevy Cruze with 150 bhp; 327 Nm engine

The engine sits neatly in the middle of what the segment is offering. Anyways, considering the skinny tires which come with the City, I feel the Civic would be much better off with this engine.

If Honda happen to make a downsized version this 1.6 into a 1.4 l; 100-105 bhp, 250-260 Nm of Torque and plonk it in the City/Jazz engine bays, Hyundai can kiss Verna and i20 sales goodbye...
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Old 9th March 2012, 16:10   #65
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

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Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
If we look subjectively at Civic's competitors (with Manual transmission) in the C+ segment,

Toyota Corolla Altis D4D comes with 88bhp; 205 Nm engine.
Renault Fluence Diesel comes with 106 bhp; 240 Nm engine.
Skoda Laura TDi Manual only comes with 110 bhp; 250 Nm engine.

The 2 cars in the segment which are more powerful than this
Honda 1.6 i-CTDI 118 bhp; 300Nm are:
VW Jetta TDI with 140 bhp; 320 Nm engine
Chevy Cruze with 150 bhp; 327 Nm engine

The engine sits neatly in the middle of what the segment is offering. Anyways, considering the skinny tires which come with the City, I feel the Civic would be much better off with this engine.

If Honda happen to make a downsized version this 1.6 into a 1.4 l; 100-105 bhp, 250-260 Nm of Torque and plonk it in the City/Jazz engine bays, Hyundai can kiss Verna and i20 sales goodbye...
Nice comparision there, considering the sales of Civic even with a diesel option Honda might wish to place the price tag safe (as it learnt recently).

I feel 1.6lt Civic with the positioning mentioned by antz would be a killer.
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Old 9th March 2012, 16:23   #66
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

What Honda needs and really quick at that is this 1.6-liter and the derived family of diesel engines. As of now, the only Achilles Heel of Honda in India is the lack of diesel options in all its models. If they manage to retain the rev-happy nature of their gasoline engines along with the premium feel of the interiors, there should be nothing stopping them from becoming leaders in all the segments yet again.

Come on Honda, act real-quick and do not waste time any further! You have lost enough market-share and volumes in India to afford the delay.
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Old 9th March 2012, 17:30   #67
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

The engine will be made in Swindon-U.K, which makes me wonder what will it cost when its imported and fitted to cars in India?!!

Also they could chop off a cylinder and create a 3 cyl 1.2 litre diesel.

This will be an excellent engine for the likes of Brio or even the City. Outright power wont be an issue. Remember, people were pretty happy with the 88ps previous gen City and was a bigger sales success in India than the new one.
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Old 9th March 2012, 17:36   #68
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

I'm just dyeing to see a spy shot of the new Civic in India. They haven't even started testing it appears. Normally we have a clear indication of a cars arrival 6 months before launch. No news from Honda though. I get the feeling they won't bring it in till next year which is going to spell disaster as far Hondas grip on the C+ segment is concerned.
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Old 9th March 2012, 19:20   #69
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

OK I did some number crunching AND:

Honda 1.6 i-CTDi is rated to emit 95gm/km of CO2. This works out to a Combined Fe of 27.38 km/l.
By Comparison:

Chevy Cruze emits 149gm/km of CO2. --> Combined FE = 17.46 km/l (ARAI 17.30 km/l)
VW Jetta emits 126gm/km of CO2. --> Combined FE = 20.65 km/l (ARAI 19.53 km/l)
Skoda Laura emits 126gm/km of CO2. --> Combined FE = 20.65 km/l (ARAI 20.04 km/l)
Toyota Corolla Altis emits 125gm/km of CO2. --> Combined FE = 20.81 km/l (ARAI 21.43 km/l)
Renault Fluence emits 119gm/km of CO2. --> Combined FE = 21.86 km/l (ARAI 21.84 km/l)

Of course I took the pains of confirming these ratings with UK versions of the same cars and the combined MPG figure exactly matches the (2602 / [gm/km of CO2]) km/l figures I have mentioned above except for Fluence which isn't sold in UK as yet.

The Civic 1.6 i-CTDI, according to its ratings, should be, by far, the most fuel efficient car in India!! Even more than the Indigo and Indica eCS !! This is when it is reasonable (118bhp) powerful and extremely (300Nm) torquey. Honda MUST bring this engine into the Indian Civic AND price it reasonably. Nobody can stop this car from becoming the biggest seller in the C+ segment, if Honda have the production capacity i.e. !
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Old 9th March 2012, 19:34   #70
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

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Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
OK I did some number crunching AND:

Honda 1.6 i-CTDi is rated to emit 95gm/km of CO2. This works out to a Combined Fe of 27.38 km/l.
By Comparison:...
FREAK! If Honda gets atleast 25 kmpl, can't wait to see the queues in Honda showrooms! And if it comes in a City, all the better! It might trump Verna especially since it has a much better back seat too! Unless someone sets new benchmarks, the game doesn't get better!
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Old 22nd September 2012, 08:37   #71
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

Another Statement from 'The Hindu' - 'Honda Motor to introduce diesel versions in India from 2013-14'

Quote:
Honda Motor will be using all-new diesel engines sequentially to new models starting from 2013-14 in India.

In addition to fuel efficiency, the cost competitiveness of the all-new diesel engine will be enhanced through local sourcing and local production to make new diesel models more affordable for customers, according to Takanobu Ito, CEO Honda Motor Corporation.

This information was contained in a speech delivered by him while sharing the company’s future plans. A copy of the speech was released to the press.
Quote:
It is reliably learnt that the new entry-level sedan that Honda is planning for India on BRIO platform would be a diesel version. "This one (entry-level sedan) will come a notch below the Honda City,’’ sources said. Once the entry-level sedan (still under development and yet to be unveiled) was launched, all new cars and full model launches would have diesel versions also, these sources said.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 14:12   #72
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

yes thats great news indeed. but still, i feel they will screw up the pricing this time around as well.

anyway, another exciting thing revealed was the possibility of a City based compact diesel SUV. very interesting to see where Honda positions it. IMHO Honda will have to work very hard to keep the price competitive. and the lack of success of Etios/Liva showed us how unforgiving the indian consumer is when it comes to blatant cost cutting, even when it comes from a brand like Toyota which is already well accepted by the consumer.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 16:15   #73
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

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Originally Posted by DieselDon View Post
Ohh! One more link for the Diesel Honda!

Come on Honda and launch it up fast and get the number clicking. It would be better to see a 1.1L diesel in the Brio, 1.5L in the City!

I hope later Honda doesn't release another report in the media saying the Indian diesel fuel is not suited for their engines. Almost all the manufacturers have a diesel mill in their range, its only Honda who is shying away, I mean the German trio (Merc, Audi and BMW) with their engines running with Indian Diesel are running properly wiothout any compliants I can't understand what could go wrong with the Honda's engine.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 16:57   #74
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

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Originally Posted by DieselDon View Post
Another news article about the introduction of diesel engines by Honda. We have been listening to this for the last two years and every time Honda comes up with some excuses not to bring the diesel engine to India. Really hope that this comes true this time. It'll be great to see cars like City and Civic running on diesel on the Indian roads.

I have a question here, is this the same engine that Honda uses in US and other countries or Honda is developing some India specific engine. I have read somewhere that Honda is setting up a diesel engine plant at Rajasthan, is it true.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 18:03   #75
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Default Re: Honda to focus on diesel engines, small compact cars for India

Hormazd Sorabjee has two very interesting points to share:

1. The engine is a 1.5 i-Dtec
Quote:
The Honda diesel will be a 1.5 litre unit that has been developed specifically for the Indian market but is likely to be exported to other parts of the world. According to company sources, this grounds-up 1.5 diesel is likely to come in two power outputs to cater to a wide range of products
2. Brio diesel sedan will come first with this engine in mid-2013 followed by Brio hatch
Quote:
The first vehicle to be powered by the new 1.5 diesel will be the Brio-based entry level saloon in mid-2013 (Autocar India first broke the news way back in its October 2010 issue) and this is likely to be followed by the Brio hatchback later in same year.
Source:http://www.autocarindia.com/News/316...offensive.aspx and http://twitter.com/hormazdsorabjee/s...29230233907200

Last edited by sarthakgupta : 22nd September 2012 at 18:05.
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