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Old 5th December 2011, 12:36   #106
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Remember, some hatchback-based sedans get superior engines. That is reason alone to consider the "booted" sibling. Example:
Agree that few enthusiasts opt or have to opt these "booted" sibling just becasue of more powerful engines, sometimes even the hatchback is their priority.

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Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
I do not buy this reasoning mostly shelled out by automobile manufacturers.

Till the time I used to be in auto costing, the engine cost used to be about 30% of the vehicle cost.
By the above logic, a polo 1.2 tdi trend the engine cost works out to about 1.7 L on an ex-showroom price of 5.6 L.
Vento 1.6 tdi trend works out to 2.5 L on ex-showroom of 8.36 L.

The engine cost diff works out to 80k but the price diff is 2.7 L for a boot, 50 mm of space.
Even after negating the tax levy difference the price difference isn't justified.
This on top of the fact that the 1.2 tdi is a sad, overpriced model (engine wise) & there's already a premium for diesel.

There still a long way to go and a lot of competition to come in before car makers stop short-changing us.
But agree with you too nitin.rai that we have to pay much more money for those hatches converted to sedans, one part of that is charged as premium by the manufacturer and other part is charged by the government as extra taxes. Example is Swift and Dzire, both are with same engine and except boot there is no difference in both models, so why we have to pay that lot of additional money just for additional 25 kg sheet of metal? I am not saying that this additional boot is useless, but is it really worth of that money?

One more disappointing fact is that we don't get proper cars for money we pay in India, we get worst spec tyres, worst spec engine, missing features for that particular model and after all these we have to buy a top most model for basic safety features like ABS - Airbags and those top models are actually base models sold in their origins with minimum safety necessities.

Bit off-topic, but just couldn't stop myself to put my thoughts in continuity of last few posts.
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Old 5th December 2011, 13:32   #107
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
There still a long way to go and a lot of competition to come in before car makers stop short-changing us.
Very well said buddy!

Your post echoed thoughts which I had a while back.

This is the gap that Indian companies fill in be it a Manza or XUV which offer perceivable value to customers.

If only their products were solid, reliable & well built ones.

Going by that logic no one would never buy an boot-ed car, and all the bookings would have gone to the likes of the XUV.

But In a versatile Indian market like ours. We have less choice to a well built product.

So many people think that "It is a booted Polo" but if it suits their requirement then "Why not?"

Last edited by Zappex : 5th December 2011 at 13:36.
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Old 5th December 2011, 14:01   #108
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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OK, so the Palio was used as a prize. The health ministry could well have offered a Palio as a prize: Drive out polio & drive out a Palio! Come to think about it, both Polio and Palio are expected to be eradicated in the near future.
Some good sense of humour there!

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Originally Posted by 007 Bond View Post
Mods please add Force Motors in that :

Force One - 135
Trax (Including Pick Up @ 150 to 175) - 938
Traveller - 978
Thanks a lot
Force One seems to be doing not bad. Its unfortunate that Force Motors launched Force One just before XUV's launch. 6-8 months before XUV's launch and some good marketting effort would have seen Force Motors receive similar response to what Mahindra got for XUV. The other way around, if they would have launched Force One after XUV, the pricing would have been more reasonable.
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Old 5th December 2011, 15:40   #109
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

- Punto's sales seems to be dwindling. If FIAT does not do anything now, then it can pack its bags.

- Bolero still manages to amaze me! there must be something really good about this vehicle that it keeps on ticking record breaking numbers every month.

- XUV5OO numbers were expected. But these are just the billed numbers right? Because bookings were closed for the entire month.

- Scorpio has overtaken Innova by quite a margin.

- Xylo & XUV5OO is same? too less for Xylo.

- 17000 swifts! Kudos to Maruti!

- 140 Arias! what a joke. I dont think at this price, the Aria is going to last long.

- Because of the XUV, Fortuner seems to have taken a hit too.
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Old 5th December 2011, 15:46   #110
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

Outlander down at 9, yes, yes ,yes....the resale will go for an absolute toss..

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 5th December 2011 at 15:56.
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Old 5th December 2011, 15:56   #111
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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Yes, it is true. Search for "dealer dispatches" in this forum and you will find a lot of posts in the sales analysis threads of past months referring to "dealer dispatches".

Is it accurate indicator of the demand/sale? In my opinion, in the short term, it is not, but over a few months, the averages and trends are going to be fairly accurate. I mean, if a dealer is not able to sell a good portion of his inventory in a particular month, would he keep on ordering in large numbers in subsequent months?

There might be "minimum order per month" requirements between manufacturers and dealers and that can twist the real demand picture. e.g. somewhere in this forum it was mentioned that Mahindra keeps on dispatching Veritos (Logan) in fixed number to all dealers (whether the need it or not).
+1.

When the vehicles are sold to Dealers - Its called Offtake, and is the actual sales figure reported by the OEM's and the money is realised form the dealers.
When the Dealer sells these cars to the end user - Its called Retail. This cannot be shown as the OEM sales chart as the vehicle is already a sold commodity by the OEM to Dealer and is no more in OEM's books.

An eg. to share, though the Offtake of nano was around 3k in Oct, the actual retail was around 9k.
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Old 6th December 2011, 10:45   #112
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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Originally Posted by Maverick79 View Post
+1.

When the vehicles are sold to Dealers - Its called Offtake, and is the actual sales figure reported by the OEM's and the money is realised form the dealers.
When the Dealer sells these cars to the end user - Its called Retail. This cannot be shown as the OEM sales chart as the vehicle is already a sold commodity by the OEM to Dealer and is no more in OEM's books.

An eg. to share, though the Offtake of nano was around 3k in Oct, the actual retail was around 9k.
Very precisely clarified.

I am guessing that you work for Tata in Sales/Logistics.
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Old 6th December 2011, 13:53   #113
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

Awesome report and charts. Thanks a lot GTO & Jalsa777 for this visual treat.

But, one important chart is missing in this report. There must be a pie chart showing the "market share" of each OEMs. It could be given on a monthly basis as well as Annual cumulative basis.


Now that we have almost all international players in India with A/B/C segment vehicles. And for the next few years, it is going to be a dog fight between them to snatch share from Maruti & Hyundai. So, literally the ~50% Maruti market share would get levelled across multiple OEMs.

-JK
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Old 6th December 2011, 17:39   #114
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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chart showing the "market share" of each OEMs.
Done, will be incorporated into the December 2011 report. Thanks for the suggestion . We've also picked up a whole lot of other ideas and comments from BHPians (Thanks guys!) and hopefully, our Dec report will be even better.
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Old 6th December 2011, 18:04   #115
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

@GTO - Not sure if someone already suggested, but you can use bubble charts to show a multi-dimensional comparison. For example the size of the bubble can indicate market share of a brand/segment/manufacturer whereas the placement of the bubble shows the sales over a timeline.
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Old 7th December 2011, 13:34   #116
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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Originally Posted by Skyline GT-R View Post
Very precisely clarified.

I am guessing that you work for Tata in Sales/Logistics.
This info can be understood from any of the OEM sales guys at their dealerships, if you interact with them for a while.
Their day starts and ends with these figures. Its really funny to see them running every where to meet the month end targets!

BTW, are you from TATA Sales team, by any chance?
No offences, just curious to know.
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Old 7th December 2011, 14:09   #117
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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Originally Posted by Warwithwheels View Post
Sorry if it has been explained elsewhere... Just curious to know what these numbers mean....

And lastly when does a manufacturer consider a sale complete... For instance somebody pays in full on 30th november and takes delivery on 1st december. Where does the number fall? in nov or dec??
Its almost impossible to track the dealer sales of all cars/manufacturers, as there is no organised data.
To an extent there will be some 2 to 3% reduction (for all) from this number. But net effect will again be same!!
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Old 7th December 2011, 16:14   #118
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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Originally Posted by Warwithwheels
Sorry if it has been explained elsewhere... Just curious to know what these numbers mean....

And lastly when does a manufacturer consider a sale complete... For instance somebody pays in full on 30th november and takes delivery on 1st december. Where does the number fall? in nov or dec??

Its almost impossible to track the dealer sales of all cars/manufacturers, as there is no organised data.
To an extent there will be some 2 to 3% reduction (for all) from this number. But net effect will again be same!!
@Warwithwheels,

For a manufacturer, the sale is complete as soon as he bills the vehicle to the dealer, depending on the clause of delivery as ex works or till the dealers place and when the funds are about to be realised in the OEM's account.
Hence the dealer is momentarily the owner of the vehicle till it is sold by him to the customer. If you pay the full amount on 30th Nov and take the delivery on 1st Dec, the sale is considered generally in the month of Nov it self in the dealers books, unless he doesn't raise the invoice on 30th till midnight.

@Ashley2,

Most of the dealers post their sales in common ERP/ SAP system shared with the OEM marketing as they need info of the customer base to track them for future promotions/ bussiness/ warranty details etc.
Hence, the dealers have to post their customers details along with all the necessisty data. Which is generally not done completely, on the very same day of the sale.
However, most of the OEM's are insisting the same now a days.

Regards,
Maverick79
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Old 7th December 2011, 18:06   #119
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

@GTO, would it be possible to show the sales figures in segments separately for petrol and diesel vehicles.
Right now, if I want to know which is the best selling diesel vehicle in a segment, I am not able to figure that out.
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Old 7th December 2011, 18:12   #120
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Default Re: November 2011 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

^ Sorry, but the split up between petrol & diesel variants is not available. Only the manufacturer (internally) knows what the ratio is. If it helps, 80% of the new Swift bookings were for the diesel.
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