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Old 6th December 2011, 23:30   #31
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

I think a Linea/Punto update was long due - it's been about 3 years since the Linea was launched and about 2.5 years since Punto was launched. Meanwhile most of the competition is either newly launched or have received an update. I think that has also contributed to the (ultra) low sales for either car in the last few months.

I don't expect any changes in engine options for either car - although 1.6MJD in the Linea will be a big plus for the car. I fear that Fiat may take out some features to remain competitive (price-wise) - something similar to what Skoda did with Fabia.

I also think Fiat should open their own showrooms/service centers. It's not because I've had bad experiences with Tata service centers and I don't fear that Fiat will pack up anytime soon - they have made huge investments in India and the Maruti engine deal will probably help them to be profitable. However, outside the automotive forums, I don't think many people know about Fiat's investments in India and due to that reason they would probably fear that Fiat could leave India at any point of time. I think independent Fiat showrooms/service centers will help Fiat gain some customer confidence.

I hope Cochin is one of the first places where Fiat starts independent showrooms/service centers. Again - it's not due to bad service from Tata ASC. It's just that Kerala is probably one of the strongest markets for Fiat and I think Fiat should first try to consolidate their position in areas where they are already strong before going for any expansions of their service network.
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Old 7th December 2011, 08:42   #32
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

The total came to about 9.28L on road for the MJD E Pk, got the usual accessories free as well.
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Old 7th December 2011, 10:02   #33
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

'Mere' facelift won't do much of a difference to the fortunes of Fiat sisters but Fiat can definitely work on some small but critical areas to improve the 'feel good' factor of its cars.

- Better interior fit and finish. Better ambience and ofcourse better plastics. Both are premium cars in their class and people expect them be premiumly build.

- Better noise reduction material to improve the NVH levels, especially the diesels.

- Weight reduction

- Repricing the variants to a constant but cheaper price tag. Not like 9 lakhs rupees car with 1 lakh off. It should be fixed at 8 lakhs. That sounds vfm.

- Revised gearing. More performance from 90HP Punto. I don't see any reason why the car should do 0-100 in 16secs!
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Old 7th December 2011, 10:23   #34
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbokick View Post
'Mere' facelift won't do much of a difference to the fortunes of Fiat sisters but Fiat can definitely work on some small but critical areas to improve the 'feel good' factor of its cars.

- Better interior fit and finish. Better ambience and ofcourse better plastics. Both are premium cars in their class and people expect them be premiumly build.

- Better noise reduction material to improve the NVH levels, especially the diesels.

- Weight reduction

- Repricing the variants to a constant but cheaper price tag. Not like 9 lakhs rupees car with 1 lakh off. It should be fixed at 8 lakhs. That sounds vfm.

- Revised gearing. More performance from 90HP Punto. I don't see any reason why the car should do 0-100 in 16secs!
Totally Disagree on some points :

- I agree that fit and finish needs a bit of improvement but it is not unacceptable or garish for this price point.
- I have a MJD and my collegues in my team have a VW and Tata and I can safely say that NVH level for diesel is much much better than other cars. In fact my brother (who is a hard man to please in any matter), was pleasantly surprised at the NVH level when he sat inside . I am just curious to know on what basis you came to this conclusion.
- Weight reduction can be done with lighter quality steel and not putting heavy duty engine guard at the bottom. But that seriously compromises safety of the car so is not acceptable taking into consideration low GC etc.
- I am not sure of petrol version, but for a average Joe like me who has to drive his car all around the town in traffic and occasionally on highways, I feel no problem with the gearing , you hardly have to down-shift. Fiat has extremely drivable cars. Sure they are not pocket-rockets but in a city drive pocket-rockets move neck-to-neck with tortoises.
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Old 7th December 2011, 10:46   #35
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Originally Posted by vikrantj View Post
Totally Disagree on some points :

- I agree that fit and finish needs a bit of improvement but it is not unacceptable or garish for this price point.
- I have a MJD and my collegues in my team have a VW and Tata and I can safely say that NVH level for diesel is much much better than other cars. In fact my brother (who is a hard man to please in any matter), was pleasantly surprised at the NVH level when he sat inside . I am just curious to know on what basis you came to this conclusion.
- Weight reduction can be done with lighter quality steel and not putting heavy duty engine guard at the bottom. But that seriously compromises safety of the car so is not acceptable taking into consideration low GC etc.
- I am not sure of petrol version, but for a average Joe like me who has to drive his car all around the town in traffic and occasionally on highways, I feel no problem with the gearing , you hardly have to down-shift. Fiat has extremely drivable cars. Sure they are not pocket-rockets but in a city drive pocket-rockets move neck-to-neck with tortoises.
- I never said interior fit and finish is unacceptable. Its just like they don't justify the segment they belong to. Compare a Fabia,Jazz or i20 with a Punto and you see how the first impression at the showroom itself goes wrong.

- NVH levels are definitely not the best in class. I am very particular about the engine noise. Cars like i20 crdi or swift have better noise reduction inside the cabin. I am not talking about road noise btw.

- Fiat has already reduced the wieght of 75hp Punto variant by about 60Kgs and effect is impressive. I got the information from Punto review thread itself. People in India value performance and fuel economy more than weight of the car. And ofcourse lighter cars arenot necessarily unsafe. New Swift and Jazz being the prime examples with their safety ratings. Fiat cars need some diet plan for sure.

- Fiats are no pocket rockets. Linea and Punto (diesels in particular) are among the slowest cars in their class(in terms of outright acceleration). They drive the best in highway but the engine feels the best in city. They need a better compromise. Driveability matters. So does the outright performance. Shorter gear ratio = lesser relaxed at highway speeds.

For those who don't mind the above differences end up buying a Fiat. But for those who can be a Fiat costumer, above changes are necessary.
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Old 7th December 2011, 10:47   #36
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

Fiat definitely needs to work on something substantial, more than plastic colours and light design, as a Punto owner, some of the things that would be needed are

- Deeper set pedals, with less travel for the clutch, driving in B2B traffic is a pain. This will also increase space for back seat passengers.

- The centre console should be redesigned to give better space in the footwell, driving the car with slightly wider shoes is impossible now.

- The power window buttons should be moved back, the current position is bad and you always lower the rear windows if you don't stretch your arm.

- Bottle holders for every door, its a pain to keep reaching out to the seat back-pocket to get a water bottle when driving.

-The steering should have rake/reach adjustment like the Polo and the tilt adjustment should be much better.

- The headlight low beam should be much higher than now in its highest position.

- The back seat can be pushed about 2 inches, the boot space will not be compromised. Not sure if this possible without making the bench narrower.

If FIAT actually bothered to do any of these, they will manage to sell a little better, but being Fiat, I expect no improvements, it will be something like the Alto Xcite, a sticker job at best.
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Old 7th December 2011, 11:37   #37
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

Had driven my friend's Linea MJD for some time. The impressions are as follows [compared to my Swift VDi]

- Long throw clutch - my biggest problem. At least 70% of the time, I try to shift after pressing only 80% clutch.

- Decent NVH inside cabin. The engine doesn't feel unrefined while revved hard. There is a humming at cruising speeds. Even my Swift D has it - so no worries, though I prefer silent cabins.

- Dead pedal placement is awkward for me. I am used to NO clutch pedals on long travels, but in Linea my foot keep messing with the dead pedal and clutch making the gear shifts nervous at times.

- Rear space could be better

- Awesome speed masking - You just don't feel the speed once it climbs up 80 kmph

- Gear shift is so-so. Not a sure slotting one like Swift. But I feel it's NOT as rubbery as a Wagon R as well. I could live with it, but a better slotting gear stick preferred.

- This guy has already replaced the steering column twice due to some rattling noice, the issue still persist. Guess they need to order the part.

- He had some oil seal breakage some time back - gave a call to the Fiat customer care and there comes a flat bed at the gate to carry the car all the way to Cochin from Kottayam. The part replacement done without a question and NO rates charged! Something which I like MOST about Fiat.

I hope Fiat introduces the 1.6 MJD soon and sorts outs all the above mentioned issues. have to say - there is absolutely NO rattling from the plastics in my friend's car. SX4 D gets most of these things right except the interiors which look too similar to swift and a segment lower. I prefer Linea's interiors any day over SX4.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 7th December 2011 at 11:40.
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Old 7th December 2011, 11:52   #38
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

That is bad news for me. Now my car will be outdated, not even a year after its purchase.
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Old 7th December 2011, 12:07   #39
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
That is bad news for me. Now my car will be outdated, not even a year after its purchase.

I took a delivery about few days back .

It depends on what the facelift is. If it is a punto Evo with refreshed interiors ( proper change) and Exteriors as seen elsewhere, we may stand to lose a bit.
Still the engine and other internals are the same. That might be some sort of consolation. I dislike the bumper styling of the Evo though.


If it is beige interiors and other small features, It shouldnt be an issue at all.
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Old 7th December 2011, 12:08   #40
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

I think Fiat is in a bit of a situation like how Chevy was before Cruze. Maybe Fiat can take a leaf out of Cruze's playbook in India. Put the blockbuster 1.6MJD in Linea making it the most powerful in class (its right now the slow coach in class), add stuff like Push Button Start, optional sunroof, rear camera etc etc (features sell in India, look at XUV & Verna), cut the price by 1L (Fiat wont be able to push its car at the same price as Vento's, Rapid's & Verna's) and offer a 3/4 yr fully paid maintanence package. Dont worry about Petrol models as they would anyway hardly sell, so taking the effort of shoehorning the T-Jet into Punto will be a wasted expense. If Fiat can do this and make a big marketing push, i am sure Linea can get numbers considering how a lot of diesel cars have such a long waiting period.
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Old 7th December 2011, 12:34   #41
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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
. Dont worry about Petrol models as they would anyway hardly sell, so taking the effort of shoehorning the T-Jet into Punto will be a wasted expense. If Fiat can do this and make a big marketing push, i am sure Linea can get numbers considering how a lot of diesel cars have such a long waiting period.
Spot on !
I don't see a reason why Fiat diesels wont sell sell if few decisions are made to keep the basics right.
More value+ peace of mind can do the trick
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Old 7th December 2011, 12:49   #42
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

If FIAT launches Linea 1.6MJD, then I am the one first book the car for a replacement to my Linea 1.3MJD.
I don't have any issue with my 1.3 MJD, But better power is always welcome, though i have added RaceChip in my car, I prefer stock power & Torque from 1.6 MJD.
I don't want them to change any exterior or interior except Leather Seats, Sun Roof and Touch screen System with Navigation.
I am ready to shell out 11-12 Lakhs.
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Old 7th December 2011, 13:02   #43
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Fiat definitely needs to work on something substantial, more than plastic colours and light design, as a Punto owner, some of the things that would be needed are

- Deeper set pedals, with less travel for the clutch, driving in B2B traffic is a pain. This will also increase space for back seat passengers.
This is a must. I took a long test drive through the most crowded streets in Pune, and it didn't take me long to decide the long clutch travel would a pain in the leg in grueling city traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
- The centre console should be redesigned to give better space in the footwell, driving the car with slightly wider shoes is impossible now.

- The power window buttons should be moved back, the current position is bad and you always lower the rear windows if you don't stretch your arm.

- Bottle holders for every door, its a pain to keep reaching out to the seat back-pocket to get a water bottle when driving.
That's precisely what I meant by having poor ergonomics in one of my earlier posts. They are not very intuitive. Things like having a USB port inside the glove box, are a few, in addition to above that sadly drove me off the Grande Punto. Interior space, fit finish, outside noise isolation(talking about Petrol) etc. are key things for me. FGP failed miserably on those counts. I found the Linea much better though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
-The steering should have rake/reach adjustment like the Polo and the tilt adjustment should be much better.

- The headlight low beam should be much higher than now in its highest position.

- The back seat can be pushed about 2 inches, the boot space will not be compromised. Not sure if this possible without making the bench narrower.

If FIAT actually bothered to do any of these, they will manage to sell a little better, but being Fiat, I expect no improvements, it will be something like the Alto Xcite, a sticker job at best.
Excellent. Very well and clearly articulated avira_tk. I hope the Fiat chaps already noted these and bringing most, if not all of these changes in the new Punto 2012.
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Old 7th December 2011, 13:17   #44
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

Some snaps I found on Archivio Immagini - Fiat Group Automobiles Press

Mods kindly watermark.

Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched-110830_f_puntotwinair_01.jpg


Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched-110830_f_puntotwinair_02.jpg


Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched-110830_f_puntotwinair_03.jpg


Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched-110830_f_punto2012_01.jpg


Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched-110830_f_punto2012_02.jpg


Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched-110830_f_punto2012_03.jpg


Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched-110830_f_punto2012_04.jpg
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Old 7th December 2011, 15:04   #45
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by CareFreeKid View Post
This is a must. I took a long test drive through the most crowded streets in Pune, and it didn't take me long to decide the long clutch travel would a pain in the leg in grueling city traffic.



That's precisely what I meant by having poor ergonomics in one of my earlier posts. They are not very intuitive. Things like having a USB port inside the glove box, are a few, in addition to above that sadly drove me off the Grande Punto. Interior space, fit finish, outside noise isolation(talking about Petrol) etc. are key things for me. FGP failed miserably on those counts. I found the Linea much better though.



Excellent. Very well and clearly articulated avira_tk. I hope the Fiat chaps already noted these and bringing most, if not all of these changes in the new Punto 2012.
I have had to drive the car a few times in really bad B2B traffic in Bangalore, approximately 1km in 45 minutes, after a while you are scared whether you leg will slip off the clutch. A good decision to keep off the GP in Pune, I have travelled around Pune and just like Bangalore, the traffic once you hit the city makes this car a pain to drive. That said, going on the expressway to Kihim(Alibaug?) in a Palio was fun, the faster you get to the highway the better.

I hope Fiat doesn't improve the car with an EPS , that will remove one of the few worthwhile things on the car.

The pictures show the car has only 1 reversing lamp, that is another "feature" they need to get rid off, all the Marutis I see in my apartment complex have better reverse lights and they have 2 of them. Fiat should ignore that EU directive about rear fog lamp and add another reverse light which is actually useful.
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