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Old 8th December 2011, 23:48   #61
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

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Originally Posted by joommen View Post
Fiat is happy with other manufacturers queuing up for their Diesel engine but I suppose their own engine gives less KM/litre when its on a Fiat body than on Maruti; strange isn't it?
Where did you get this information that Fiat's give less KMPL? I am consistently getting 20+ on highway with 100% AC in my Linea MJD.
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Old 8th December 2011, 23:48   #62
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

Well there is a lot of task at hand I am not entirely convinced that Fiat is really interested in marketing cars in India. I for one think there is a lot of work required in Punto or Linea. Except for the ride & Handling there is very little that interests evan an enthusisast. Leave aside the common people.

Where shall I start, interior quality which is probably the worst in the market, or performance thanks to Mr. fatty. Infact weight reduction is the first and foremost thing Fiat should look into. It not only improves performance but also FE (specially with petrols). It makes the car agile and that too isn't Fiat's forte. Crucify me for saying this but I feel Fiat is a safe handler not an entertaining one. Take the T-Jet for example which is Fiat at its absolute best; It still isnt as agile as a Fiesta. It does have stiffer suspension, 16" wheels, all disc but it feels heavy and it spoils the fun. Now about the Punto it may have great steering feedback but "overall handling" is not segment leading. There is a prominent hint of body roll and it too has the same issue with agility. Not that it is poor but it is just mediocre. Cars like Swift, Figo, Brio & Polo are a lot more FUN. They may not be as comfortable as the Punto but who cares.

Now the other problem that the Fiat had since birth was messed up ergonomics. How hard can it be to get things right. The steering, the pedals, the seats feel like they are made in jugaad type. Stupid Italians.

Now I think a mere facelift is not going to do any good. A good 1.6L MJD can put Fiat back on the fighting track. But please bear in mind, VW, Sokda & Hyundai has already unleashed their 1.6L Diesel monsters and all of them are priced competetively. So what Fiat needs is a 1.6L MJD with dual clutch gearbox and a spruced up interior. And for gods sake a better customer support.

Last edited by oxyzen : 8th December 2011 at 23:50.
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Old 8th December 2011, 23:54   #63
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

Guys,

There is one interesting post in Fiat - Test Drive thread from 'swiftnfurious'. It seems FIAT have postponed the Punto EVO launch.
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Old 8th December 2011, 23:59   #64
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

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Where shall I start, interior quality which is probably the worst in the market, or performance thanks to Mr. fatty.

Infact weight reduction is the first and foremost thing Fiat should look into. It not only improves performance but also FE (specially with petrols).
Have you owned Punto or Linea? If the common people speculate about something, the same is carried over by many without even knowing the actual fact. I didn't mean to offend you. Just wanted to put my thoughts as well.

Regarding interior quality, I accept that its not the best. But, not the worst. I test drove City, Optra, SX4 and Vento. I can vouch that Linea's interior quality is better than City and SX4.

Do you know that Linea weighs less than SX4 and Vento? Check out the specs.

As far as FE is concerned, I don't expect much from a sedan but still my Linea MJD gives 20+ KMPL with 100% AC on highways.
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Old 9th December 2011, 01:48   #65
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

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Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
Have you owned Punto or Linea? If the common people speculate about something, the same is carried over by many without even knowing the actual fact. I didn't mean to offend you. Just wanted to put my thoughts as well.
Regarding interior quality, I accept that its not the best. But, not the worst. I test drove City, Optra, SX4 and Vento. I can vouch that Linea's interior quality is better than City and SX4.
I own a Palio. And I could not convince myself to upgrade to a Punto or Linea by any means. I didn't like the interior quality of Linea. I hated the retro looks (subjective) and the fit & finish is below par.
City and SX4 at-least feels well put together. But not Linea.

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Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
Do you know that Linea weighs less than SX4 and Vento? Check out the specs.
Checked
Linea 1291
SX4 1245
Vento 1220

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
As far as FE is concerned, I don't expect much from a sedan but still my Linea MJD gives 20+ KMPL with 100% AC on highways.
Diesels never have a problem with FE. My Vento delivers 20+ on highways and that too with the 1.6L engine. So it is im-material. However with petrol, to deliver good FE like Honda it needs to be light.

Last edited by oxyzen : 9th December 2011 at 01:50.
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Old 9th December 2011, 08:05   #66
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

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Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
Where did you get this information that Fiat's give less KMPL? I am consistently getting 20+ on highway with 100% AC in my Linea MJD.
I drive a Punto 90HP, goes for 14-15KM/lit in the city. Hope it will give better KMs after the first service; the less KM could be due to its VGT engine too. I am not against Fiat or any car for that matter, but believe that Fiat can give better quality cars.
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Old 9th December 2011, 08:30   #67
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
Checked
Linea 1291
SX4 1245
Vento 1220
This is what FIAT Linea owner handbook says: petrol Linea weighs 1240 kg and diesel Linea 1290 kg.
Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched-unladenweight.png

Last edited by J.Ravi : 9th December 2011 at 08:32.
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Old 9th December 2011, 13:58   #68
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
I own a Palio. And I could not convince myself to upgrade to a Punto or Linea by any means. I didn't like the interior quality of Linea. I hated the retro looks (subjective) and the fit & finish is below par.
City and SX4 at-least feels well put together. But not Linea.


Checked
Linea 1291
SX4 1245
Vento 1220


Diesels never have a problem with FE. My Vento delivers 20+ on highways and that too with the 1.6L engine. So it is im-material. However with petrol, to deliver good FE like Honda it needs to be light.
Looks are completely subjective. I leave it at that. For me, Linea looks better than all other C segment cars. Again, I felt the quality of interiors in Linea are way better than City and SX4.

Check the Fiat-India website. The weight of Linea MJD is 1210.
Name:  Linea.JPG
Views: 3278
Size:  12.8 KB


Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Ravi View Post
This is what FIAT Linea owner handbook says: petrol Linea weighs 1240 kg and diesel Linea 1290 kg.
Attachment 854006
No Ravi Ji. Its the old spec. Linea and Punto had undergone weight reduction post June'2010. My Linea spec says that it is 1210.

Last edited by rameshnanda : 9th December 2011 at 14:04.
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Old 9th December 2011, 14:31   #69
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

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Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
No Ravi Ji. Its the old spec. Linea and Punto had undergone weight reduction post June'2010. My Linea spec says that it is 1210.
Thanks for enlightening me, rameshnanda. So, Linea and Punto have become slimmer and more attractive than ever before.

FIAT Linea and Punto are leading the polls with very wide margin on 'Which car has the best looking backside?' in sedan and hatchback categories respectively.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-backside.html (Which car has the best looking backside?)

Last edited by J.Ravi : 9th December 2011 at 14:34.
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Old 9th December 2011, 14:36   #70
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post

Now the other problem that the Fiat had since birth was messed up ergonomics. How hard can it be to get things right. The steering, the pedals, the seats feel like they are made in jugaad type. Stupid Italians.
Kerb Weight - Fiat Linea 1.4 Petrol: 1180 kg
Kerb Weight - VW Vento Petrol: 1220 kg

Data from their respective websites. Everybody can cross check. But the important point here is, please don't bring your personal biases in normal discussions. I see, you are not happy with Fiat and hence so much negativity. The Fiat steering is perhaps the best in its class in terms of design and engineering. It looks good and is precise at any speed. In one and half years of ownership of Linea, for once I didn't feel that the car is not going where I want it to go - even in potholes. Yes, adjustment for reach would have helped but it works beautifully. I love the Linea seats and for my frame 5'7' they are pretty good. I was able to adjust and get a good driving position in no time. Pedals - yes, I agree they have long travel but the car is able to cruise on its own in 2nd and 3rd gear without any problem without needing to use clutch and accelerator too often. I regularly drive back from office to home via ORR in Bangalore and people would relate the traffic is a mess during peak hours. I just normally engage 2nd or 3rd gear depending upon speed and I am able to manage.

Calling Italians stupid will not serve any purpose. We have an Opel Astra in the family and black plastics on the dash and body trim started to fade within 2 years and Opel didn't change them. A friend has Ford Fusion, I am not mighty impressed with their quality as well. Honda City, yes the overall feel is good but somehow I am not confident that it will last me a lifetime. I also have a WagonR and plastics were not to great but at the price point, I have got nothing to complain.

Please compare each car from the day it was launched and features offered and their price. Linea had several segment first features - Blue&Me, Car Management - it's not there even now in SX4, steering mounted controls, rear ac, one of the best car security system, try comparing the boot space.

I recently met with an accident while reversing my car in speed and there was a pillar that I couldn't spot at night. With my daughter and wife sitting, it felt as if something has happened but didn't even bother to check thinking it might have hurt the bumper but when reached home the entire bumper and dicky door had a massive dent. Will post picture soon. This speak a lot about the build quality of the car.

I paid 8.84 lacs for the car, the features. A Honda City with lesser features was around 9.96 lacs, SX4 was 8.72 (only Airbags and ABS) and with a rear seat hump so massive that it can only seat 2 people comfortably which renders it only a 4 seater.

My point here is: please evaluate and compare, provide opinions which are honest not biased.
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Old 9th December 2011, 15:29   #71
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

All,

Any idea how authentic this news is? I am currently on the verge of ordering a Punto, taking advantage of the season's discounts. I checked for the launch on FIAT india website, spoke to the dealer as well as the FIAT territory manager. The salesman and the territory manager confirmed that the Punto EVO will be launched next year, but only towards the end of the year. The website articles emphasize that it will be a facelift with no changes to the engine options.

In a bit of a tizzy since I am not sure whether to wait and forfeit the deals, or go ahead and buy. My gut feel is that there is nothing wrong as far as the looks of the current version is concerned, so any face lift is not going to change much. To do, or not to do?
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Old 9th December 2011, 16:01   #72
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

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Originally Posted by vivekshukla View Post

Linea had several segment first features - Blue&Me, Car Management - it's not there even now in SX4, steering mounted controls, rear ac, one of the best car security system, try comparing the boot space.

.
You are being too humble with that list. I guess there is a separate thread on Team BHP wherein members have discovered lot of features on the Linea after they have bought it.

Heck: The 10 year old palio has fuel supply kill switch which gets activated automatically in event of an accident. It is present under the front passenger seat. I guess this feature is still not present on the so called modern hatch from competition.

Who says that the interior design is not ergnomical or seats ain't comfortable in the FIAT's? - I have a Palio Multijet, Swift DDIS and Fiesta 1.6 at home. Have done a non-stop Blr-Pune (with bio-breaks only) in 11 hours single driver & alone. Only had a stiff body and no pain.

Whereas, I struggle with the Swift or the Fiesta when I cross 300 kms in a day. And this is not just me, even my dad and my uncle who have tried it feel the same.

Come on people- FIAT has its share of problems but, that does not mean you just keep finding faults with everything. Lets appreciate the good things also.

Cheers

PS: The biggest problem with FIAT is that it does not know how to market its cars and also with its inconsistent service support.
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Old 9th December 2011, 16:17   #73
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
Now the other problem that the Fiat had since birth was messed up ergonomics. How hard can it be to get things right. The steering, the pedals, the seats feel like they are made in jugaad type. Stupid Italians.
I will agree with this part - messed up ergonomics - this is true for Punto.
I had to rule out Punto just because it was impossible for my wife to drive it. Punto's gear lever position and clutch pedal travel made it very difficult to depress the clutch completely for her - she is around 5 ft tall.
At the end of the TD, the sales guy said: "you don't have to depress the pedal completely' even if you press the pedal 80%, that is fine!"
I didn't want to create gear box problems and had to drop Punto from our list -despite it being on top of my list.
Else by now, we would have had a Punto ownership thread with 10K on the odo.
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Old 9th December 2011, 16:22   #74
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

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Originally Posted by pareshraheja View Post
You are being too humble with that list. I guess there is a separate thread on Team BHP wherein members have discovered lot of features on the Linea after they have bought it.

Who says that the interior design is not ergnomical or seats ain't comfortable in the FIAT's? - I have a Palio Multijet, Swift DDIS and Fiesta 1.6 at home. Have done a non-stop Blr-Pune (with bio-breaks only) in 11 hours single driver & alone. Only had a stiff body and no pain.
PS: The biggest problem with FIAT is that it does not know how to market its cars and also with its inconsistent service support.
Hey, I didn't want to sound as a Fiat Fanboy hence resisted listing down all features. The most I like is the engine guard plate. Even if it doesn't save the engine at least keeps it clean from dirt and mud.

Ergonomics is a personal preference and a lot depends upon your own built as well. I have recently done a Bangalore - Rameshwaram - Bangalore (round trip 1240 kms) trip on Sat-Sun weekend starting from Bangalore at 8.30 and reaching Rameshwaram at 6 PM. We drove easy and after reaching Rameshwaram didn't feel like we drove so much, barring an eye strain I was okay. I have done similar distances in a City and a Fusion - it's not so comfortable. I have also done a Bangalore - Hyderabad trip all of 645 kms in 6 hours flat with my daughter and wife on board. No car gives me the confidence to do 180 kmph the way Linea does.
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Old 9th December 2011, 16:25   #75
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Default re: Fiat Linea & Punto 2012 Models - Now Launched

So true. Fiat has absolutely no idea how to sell the cars. And I am tempted to assume that the service issues are more to do with overloaded service personnel rather than availability of spares. My Stile SDX had a pretty bad crash 2 months ago. And there was a delay in fixing it and there reason given to me (not on an official note, but because of the personal rapport I have with the KHT guys) was the delay in getting the bumper, bonnet and right front fender painted. In fact, they didn't fix the driver door (which had minor dents) at that time, and I did not have to think too much to figure out the reason.

The service centres are overloaded with cabs, and cabs always crash you see ;-)

I once had a chance to drive KHT's test-drive Punto for 3 weeks and I found Punto's inside not as much roomy as my Palio's. That could be either because of the dark interiors or because it is indeed smaller than Palio on the inside. The doors are FAT. When make the doors so hollow inside? Possibly to give more room to absorb the impact in case there is a crash. Fiat designers are not plain stupid to make the car appear big but not give enough space inside.

And I personally prefer dark interiors over beige. I have been driving my neighbour's i10 once in a while (as he has gone abroad for a long term), and I hate the way its dashboard (especially the U shaped roof of the dials behind the steering wheel) reflects on the windshield, irrespective of the time of the day or night. And I wonder what quality glass this car uses. Fog forms on the inside quickly, and when I switch on the defogger, the fog forms on the outside where the cold air hits the windshield. It happens to such a small extent in my Palio that I don't even bother about it.

Every car has its problems. One cannot figure out the problems unless she/he uses it for long. In the end, everything exists for a reason. And one reason can contradict another.
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