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Old 14th December 2011, 16:23   #16
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Default Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax

Coming from a Delhi Metro top-brass, it ain't such a surprise. He is too proud of his pet project and rightly so. However, Delhi Metro barely manages to span the entirety of Delhi itself. Nothing even remotely as modern and well managed can be found anywhere else in India. I invite him to take a ride in rush-hour Kolkata metro(the closest thing) as an anonymous commuter. His proposals will surely take a nose-dive.



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Me, from day one, against Volvo bus. Rather they could have increased the number of buses ten folds for that money and maintenance. And still I believe in that.

10 folds of the smoke bellowing, rusted metal protruding,sloth like earthquake simulators u mean?
Now would that serve the instant purpose? I don't think so.
If the motive is to minimise the use of private cars, then, infact, all such contraptions(described above) has to be first replaced. The idea is to provide atleast a comparable comfort level and reliable alternative. The Volvos are a step in that same direction.
I, personally would prefer buying a 20km Volvo ride for INR 40 rather than being tossed, shoved and spoiled around in a "run of the mill" public transport even if the same ride costs Rs.10. These, so called buses, are absolute disasters waiting to happen. They have more exposed metal inside than its outer shell. Add to that the NVH levels and constant "Jhankar Beats" arising out of every imaginable parts.
If I'm provided with Volvo/AC Marco-polo buses at steady intervals even at late hours, then i'll surely and happily use them and keep the car for weekend/special day use only. Suits both ends don't you think?

P.S.: My rant is not entirely against our Desi chassis suppliers(TATA/AL) but more the way the bodies are built at independent road side workshops with minimalistic approach and utter disregard to ergonomics, safety, etc. The lack of proper maintenance and the way they are allowed to run over-crowded.

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Old 14th December 2011, 17:10   #17
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Default Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax

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Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
Coming to public transport.

Just read in a paper that BMTC is also in huge loss for the past 2 years. What the heck!

The minimum charge in Volvo is all double digits. And even other buses, its almost same. Me, from day one, against Volvo bus. Rather they could have increased the number of buses ten folds for that money and maintenance. And still I believe in that.
What's the point in having 500 extra buses when there are no roads for them to ply on? Bangalore is getting more and more crowded by the day, and the roads aren't getting any wider. Pressing 500 BMTC buses into service will only choke the roads even further.

The introduction of Volvo buses, IMO, was a great idea. If you can't improve by multiplying the number, then simply make what you have better! As it is I see hundreds of buses on our roads every day, and none of them maintaining road-etiquette. Imagine having 500 more uncouth bus drivers on the road!

Volvos will always be a liability for BMTC. Running them on diesel is not cheap, and maintaining them over a period of few years has proven to be very expensive too. Despite all this, Volvo's have been doing well on many routes. The most popular being the 330-339 series that goes to Marathalli.

The solution, as far as I can see, would be the Metro. They must do something about the number of auto-rickshaws too. They're just everywhere, and half the time they're loitering around causing other road users inconvenience while making a pittance in the first place.
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Old 14th December 2011, 17:36   #18
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Default Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax

If tax is increased on petrol cars its almost dooms day for Petrol car manufacturers.

Diesel cars will become more dearer and it will no more be affordable by common middle class.

Instead of increasing the frequency / number of buses, they could have "cut" service buses during peak hours. example they could have a Volvo from Wilson Garden to Electronic city to cater the Wilson Garden and Koramangala crowds.

I will take public transport if its comfortable (At least a place to stand) and dependable. Frequencies also should be good.
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Old 14th December 2011, 17:49   #19
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Default Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax

Another government trick to milk the common man.
Government should implement such taxes only where already good mass transportation is available. Something on the lines of London congestion charge.
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Old 14th December 2011, 18:28   #20
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

There is one more thing for me for using my car/2W to commute to work

I live in Teynampet and commute to MEPZ @ Tambaram Chennai for daily work.

Bus from residence to Work: I prefer an AC Volvo because i need to be fresh when i reach work and not stinky and sweaty. 21G volvo is not dependable. AC is a necassity and no more a luxury in the hot chennai climate. All Buses come jam-packed and hardly get a place to stand. There is no Cut service bus from say Mandaveli to Tambaram and not halting at guindy. Such a service would reduce crowds and cater to MEPZ folks

Crossing the road: At MEPZ Signal almost everyone jumps the signal and it is very difficult to cross the road.

MEPZ Gate to Office Building: There is no dependable public transportation from MEPZ Gate to my office. Auto-rickshaws in chennai have a "reputation" of exhorbitant prices. The fleece the public. Company Shuttles stop by 11:00 am, so if we reach later that 11:00am its a pain.

Given the above scenario of my daily work commute (Which is a must) i prefer taking a vehicle and commuting instead of waiting for a public transport. If i am late for a meeting and i tell my manager that 21G bus came late, would he excuse me, absolutely not. In this light, i prefer to use a private vehicle so that i can plan my time accordingly.

What a way of making people suffer by increasing petrol prices and not adding fuel to the fire by implementing a Tax and Cess on Automobiles. Govt should provide excellent transportation before implementing such a tax. They copy the congestion charge from Singapore/London, but why are they not copying the seamless transport system provided by the them ?

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Old 14th December 2011, 19:52   #21
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Default Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax

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5. Some extra taxes will be introduced as soon as a new govt comes in power, as they have 5 years to mitigate impact.
And by the time they go out the exchequer will be so much in red and the new government will have no choice but to increase taxes. This is a never ending cycle.
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Old 14th December 2011, 20:12   #22
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Default Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax

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What's the point in having 500 extra buses when there are no roads for them to ply on? Bangalore is getting more and more crowded by the day, and the roads aren't getting any wider. Pressing 500 BMTC buses into service will only choke the roads even further.
I see it different. Its any day far far better than having 5000+ cars on the otherwise congested road. Right?

We have such a "great and responsible" bus drivers and top of that we provide them with powerful buses like volvo, this is bound to happen. The way they drive this, we can never expect mileage or less maintenance.

The idea of putting cess is to move the crowds from using private vehicles to public transport. So, the only option is increases the buses. Ofcourse metro is a good solution, only if its implemented till last mile.
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Old 14th December 2011, 20:19   #23
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Default Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax

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Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
I see it different. Its any day far far better than having 5000+ cars on the otherwise congested road. Right?

We have such a "great and responsible" bus drivers and top of that we provide them with powerful buses like volvo, this is bound to happen. The way they drive this, we can never expect mileage or less maintenance.

The idea of putting cess is to move the crowds from using private vehicles to public transport. So, the only option is increases the buses. Ofcourse metro is a good solution, only if its implemented till last mile.
I agree. Somewhat

I still believe that Bangalore isn't big enough, and increasing the number of buses will just make a mess of things. As it is they flout rules left, right and center. I see at least one incident everyday involving a bus and some other vehicle.

But what can cure the maddening traffic in Bangalore is a huge crackdown on goods vehicles. BTP must catch all those mini lorries and trucks that transport steel rods, bricks, sand, stones, etc. across the city. We must force them to use the Ring Road and prevent them from driving through the city. They are not only rash, they carry dangerous things that could potentially cause havoc in a city like Bangalore, brimming with traffic during peak hours.
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Old 15th December 2011, 11:49   #24
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

Extremely stupid logic that benefits none. What do people do when you make it expensive to own a vehicle but have no public transport? They can't even fix public transport in tier 1 & 2 cities in India but talk of a pan-india tax on vehicles.

Its the congress govt thinking of new ways to make money before the 2014 elections to fund their populist but money draining good-for-nothing schemes. They know they can't play the growth card anymore with no-reforms and sad state of economy. If i can get an assured Rs.100 from the MNREGA by simply whiling away time in the shade of some tree and picking up that shovel only when an audit jeep runs by, why will i work? Its like giving a man a fish but not teaching him how to fish. Governments should stop supporting families with money taken from a few who work to make a decent living!

Here is an example of how desperate the Gandhi family has become:

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/fo...ly-155716.html

http://www.firstpost.com/business/mr...eo-111657.html

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Old 15th December 2011, 12:08   #25
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Default Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
What's the point in having 500 extra buses when there are no roads for them to ply on? Bangalore is getting more and more crowded by the day, and the roads aren't getting any wider. Pressing 500 BMTC buses into service will only choke the roads even further. ......
According to another report there are around 600 BMTC buses past there lifespan. All this is a disaster waiting in the wings.

Another way is to start cycling
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Old 15th December 2011, 12:47   #26
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Default Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax

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Govt needs money in form of taxes. Taxing cars impacts a very little percentage of the votebank, and the money can be used to fund subsidies etc., which get in more votes.
Till car ownership is amongst a very small percentage of the populace, be ready for such measures.
In the next couple of years I think this will happen
1. Differential diesel pricing bill will meet resistance from opposition, and will die a permanent death
2. To fix their deficit, govt will come up with increase in excise etc., for cars esp those costing above 5L. After all, what is the % of people buying cars above 5L(from a vote share perspective)
3. Diesel cars will see a 20-30% jump
4. State govts will slowly approach KA model of 13-20% taxes. Affluent states(with higher per capita car ownership) like PB/HR will limit to peak tax of 10%. States with lesser vote impact will go upto 20%
5. Some extra taxes will be introduced as soon as a new govt comes in power, as they have 5 years to mitigate impact.
I second you on those points. Obviously, you know how things 'practically' happen in India.

My suggestion:

Cut petrol prices by Rs 15: New price Rs 50/-
Raise Diesel price by Rs 5-7: New price Rs 45/-
Raise Cooking gas LPG cylinder price by Rs 100/-.

They should more or less balance out. If not, a little slice and dice will do the trick.

I think there is only one thing that can shake the arrogant Govt in the long run: 'Middle class' starts voting. None of them go to vote saying that 'none of the candidates are good enough'. Why don't we vote for the 'least worst' of them then

A simple vote from middle class changes the whole dynamics. Once you vote, you are a significant bunch of junta. So, the Govt can't ignore you anymore. It will try to refrain from implementing policies that antagonize you. Which, in more cases than not, means sensible governance. Simple. Till then, let's live with the crappy policies of 'fokat taxes', which are ways to gobble up junta money.

Last edited by Abhi_Automobile : 15th December 2011 at 12:49.
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Old 15th December 2011, 17:11   #27
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

Govt. instead of giving slow painful death to the motorists , should ban all private vehicles . Looks like owning a vehicle is going to be the biggest crime in India in the days to come . How much more does the Govt. want to milk tax-paying public's money ? Is there no end to it ? How do we travel in day-to day life ? Do we have even a semblance of public transport . I stay in Bangalore and if you rely on public transport to get to your offices a ] you will not reach on time 2] Even if you If you reach your body will not be in one piece with all the hustling and bustling ..We are a country where the tax-paying public has no voice at all it seems..

Last edited by needforspeed88 : 15th December 2011 at 17:12.
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Old 15th December 2011, 18:38   #28
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

I see a lot of people here suggesting Metro being the idle solution or the best possible solution for the existing pathetic public transport. Please this is just an illusion that you have. You need to once travel in the Delhi Metro during the peak hours to understand what a mess it is. Yes the stations and trains are relatively clean but the crowd? During peak hours IT IS A WAR going on at most metro stations which take you to the central delhi. and you need to pass through these stations even if you want to go to someother place. The crowd is horrible. You will be pushed, stepped on, pulled, elbowed and trampled upon. If you are not careful and I really mean CAREFUL then you may find yourself swept with the crowd inside the train even if thats the wrong train and vice versa.

And the best part is that they cannot even increase the frequency since its already at its max. Most of the times the inbound train is almost ready and waiting for the platform to get clear.

The first and the basic problem with our country is the ever increasing population. Whatever way of public transport you suggest, it will fail because the number of passengers travelling is just enormous. There is a disaster waiting to happen in every metro running and every bus plying on the road. There is a very interesting electronic board put up outside AIIMS flyover in Delhi which keeps showing you the current total population of the country. Its funny and very scary to see the number increase by 10-15 from the time you climb up the flyover to the time you exit it.

Lastly Mr. Sreedharan did a great job with the Delhi metro. But its really foolish of him to believe that the Metro will be everyones cup of tea specially in its Current state of affairs. He should for a change try travelling from Kashmere gate or CP stations once during the peak hours without his guards and the rest of the team. I doubt if he will ever set foot inside a Metro again after that!

Those of us who are able to afford a car and expect a relative amount of self respect and dignity while travelling ( note that comfort comes after these) will never be happy with such kinds of arrangements where you have to literally fight your way through. I for instance love the Volvo service connecting the Bangalore airport to the rest of the city. Concepts like those are the only way to even hope that there will be a decrease in the passenger cars.

Last edited by drmohitg : 15th December 2011 at 18:43.
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Old 15th December 2011, 19:21   #29
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Default Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax

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According to another report there are around 600 BMTC buses past there lifespan. All this is a disaster waiting in the wings.

Another way is to start cycling
600 buses! I'm not surprised.

You see, I stay right behind the Indiranagar Bus Depot. Every morning, I get to hear the buses being revved hard, and I even hear them being braked very hard. One morning (wee hours), while dropping my dad off at the bus stop, I took a peek into the depot, and saw a line of buses being tested before the shift starts. And to my absolute shock and dismay, I saw one bus plough straight into a wall of sand-bags. The brakes hadn't worked.

After my dad boarded the Volvo, I saw the very same bus being driven out of the depot along with it's conductor, who was preparing the bus for duty, by aligning the route-board behind the windshield.

At that moment, I prayed a little, for those who would be boarding that bus on that day.
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Old 15th December 2011, 21:32   #30
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Default Re: Propopsed green cess and Urban Transport Tax

Metro is very very expensive. I guess the politicians like the idea since it fetches more for them in the form of %ges.

A BRTS like system either with bus or tram (and possibly double-decked) would be a fantastic idea for our cities on roads with multiple lanes. It is MUCH cheaper than the metro and easily build-able and scalable. Trams also have the advantage of being narrower, hence better for our narrow streets. BRTS won't turn the city skyline ugly. Give them exclusivity on the road, don't mix them with regular traffic, this will ensure timeliness and fuel efficiency. Let people carry cycles - arrange for cycle carriers on the bus/tram in front and at the back, and maybe sides too, as anyways there is no interaction with the traffic. At every station, deploy (non-free) shuttles (mini vans) to various nearby catchment areas so passengers getting out can find immediate transit to their destination without auto-wallah hassle.
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