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Old 15th December 2011, 22:03   #31
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

If the Bangalore situation improves with easy access to public transport and particularly last mile connectivity, then all this would work. But, in the absence of proper public transport, trying to force feed these policies to the public, won't work! Whatever said and done, I think it would be prudent to buy your diesel car now in case anyone is planning on buying. I for one, wouldn't want to take chances with the whims and fancies of the politicos out there!
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Old 15th December 2011, 22:24   #32
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

Taxation or extortion? Just a bull$hit excuse to loot car owners. The money earned by this extortion will end up in Swiss banks. Nothing improves or works in this country. As some suggested, better to emigrate to any country. Even Cuba/North Korea would be better places than this god-foresaken country. When will these morons running Govt. realise that petrol is used more by commonmen ( two-wheelers) than elite ( who drive around in diesel Beemers and Mercs). Every average voter ( aam admi ) has a two-wheeler and it runs on petrol. The bozos running the Govt. do not seem to have any brain. Today, petrol is not a luxury but a necessity. It is like --- Roti, Kapda, Makan aur Petrol (fuel for a two-wheeler).
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Old 16th December 2011, 12:34   #33
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
I see a lot of people here suggesting Metro being the idle solution or the best possible solution for the existing pathetic public transport. ..............Those of us who are able to afford a car and expect a relative amount of self respect and dignity while travelling ( note that comfort comes after these) will never be happy with such kinds of arrangements where you have to literally fight your way through. I for instance love the Volvo service connecting the Bangalore airport to the rest of the city. Concepts like those are the only way to even hope that there will be a decrease in the passenger cars.
First of all let us analyse a few things

1. There is a finite capacity of a road to carry traffic. Introducing 10-20K buses on Delhi roads will just choke the roads, and not achieve much in the way of reducing congestion.

2. The same argument holds for personal cars. Once the traffic exceed the road capacity, you end up in a day long grid lock.

3. MRTS (Mass rapid transport system) is the only solution to moving millions of passengers daily. Mumbai has its trains, and even though they are jam packed, at least they move 1000 persons or more per train. That is at least 10 bus equivalents (assuming you can cram 100 persons in a bus). Multiply the number of trains run daily in Mumbai by ten, and you will get the number of extra buses needed. Once those tens of thousands of buses hit the road, you will not be able to move on them. That is why you cannot increase buses beyond a number. Of course you need them for the last mile link, but that is not the same as long distance commute.

4. Take the case of Delhi. The corridors where the Metro is most effective is already witnessing lower personal vehicles. Till two years ago, South Delhi to Gurgaon, CP and Noida roads were in a grid lock during office time. Today they are jammed but much less. As and where Metro expands the crowds will transfer from the roads to metro for medium to long distance travel.

5. The very fact that you find the Delhi Metro jammed, proves that people are taking to Metro as fish to water. Every one who can uses it.

Regarding Green Tax, I am all against it, till we have excellent and reliable public transport as an alternative to personal transport. That mean not only during the office hours but for at least 20 hours from 4 AM to at least midnight to cater to all types of commuters. In Delhi I cannot leave my car and go to a party; even though there is a metro station at both ends; as the trains stop much before the party ends.

Unfortunately, we collect a lot of taxes from the road sector ostensibly for the road sector - road tax, tax on fuel, road surcharge on fuel and of course the toll tax. If you calculate the amount, it comes to more than twice of that actually spend in building and maintaining the roads. All these taxes have degenerated to just another source of "General Revenue"
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Old 16th December 2011, 14:05   #34
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

I like the idea of a Green Tax and if it will help reduce the congestion on the roads thereby reducing accidents then go for it. What the government needs to take into consideration is that do they have a mechanism in place that can successfully and COMFORTABLY transport millions of people during the day.

I own a car and a bike and by choice I use my bike to commute to work because that's at least one car less on the roads and obviously the mileage I get with my bike is over three times of what my car gives me. Thankfully in Bangalore an AC is not absolutely necessary.

I am willing to also travel by bus or metro to get to work but my only ask is that I complete this journey without having to switch buses, not be trod on or look like I have run a marathon when I walk into office.

The optimist in me still has hopes for Bangalore (cant really speak about any other city). I believe that once the Metro is completed (all stages, phases, etc) it will connect a majority of the population with the destinations far better than the existing public transport infrastructure.

So if you want to increase the cost of fuel by adding a green tax at least make the price of diesel and petrol equal so that I don't feel ripped off for buying a petrol car. If the govt. wants to provide the trucks and the likes with some benefits then they should do it through lower tax/ permits or insurance premiums (like this one especially - forgot who said it )

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Old 16th December 2011, 18:41   #35
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
First of all let us analyse a few things

1. There is a finite capacity of a road to carry traffic. Introducing 10-20K buses on Delhi roads will just choke the roads, and not achieve much in the way of reducing congestion.
I agree. My example of Bangalore's Volvo buses was to highlight the comfort level I expect from any mode of transport.

Quote:
2. The same argument holds for personal cars. Once the traffic exceed the road capacity, you end up in a day long grid lock.
Its already there sir. I know what you are saying and its getting scarier day by day. I travel to AIIMS from Punjabi bagh everyday via the ring road. the whole stretch is so full of traffic even when its all signal free.

Quote:
4. Take the case of Delhi. The corridors where the Metro is most effective is already witnessing lower personal vehicles. Till two years ago, South Delhi to Gurgaon, CP and Noida roads were in a grid lock during office time. Today they are jammed but much less. As and where Metro expands the crowds will transfer from the roads to metro for medium to long distance travel.

5. The very fact that you find the Delhi Metro jammed, proves that people are taking to Metro as fish to water. Every one who can uses it.
Well I tried the Metro route a lot of times. And trust me its really really crowded. If I can afford to travel in the luxury of my car where no one is pushing or breathing down my neck, I am going to choose that always. I don't mind standing on the road stuck in traffic rather then playing out "survival of the fittest" on some of those metro stations.

I think you misunderstood the purpose of my post. I didn't say that the Metro is not a good idea. It is a great idea and I agree with you that it caters to a large population every day. Even I myself would rank it as the best alternative to my car in Delhi today. But having said that it is equally deteriorating fast in terms of basic comfort while travelling. Now that is in no ways the Metro's fault. Its just the sheer number of passengers like I mentioned in my last post. I have become used to the basic comfort levels and I look forward to having the same in whatever public transport system I am offered. The basic etiquette like no pushing, shoving etc and not to be in physical contact with another passenger ( yes I need to atleast be able to breathe). Its like the difference between the Airport and the railway station if you can understand what I am trying to say. And these problems will stay because the govt cannot do anything about the ever increasing population.

The Metro is still a good alternative in case you do not need to cross those central stations like Kashmere gate, Rajiv chowk and the likes.


Quote:
Unfortunately, we collect a lot of taxes from the road sector ostensibly for the road sector - road tax, tax on fuel, road surcharge on fuel and of course the toll tax. If you calculate the amount, it comes to more than twice of that actually spend in building and maintaining the roads. All these taxes have degenerated to just another source of "General Revenue"
Bingo! The govt just needs an excuse to increase its revenues and hence the scope for corruption. Rather they should wake up and probably give massive discounts to the hybrid car segment if they are serious about going green. Better traffic management, ensuring that roads are in good condition etc would go a long way in reducing the carbon footprint. If taxes were the answer to our country's problem then there wouldn't have been anything wrong already!
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Old 16th December 2011, 20:54   #36
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax is a great idea.

But there is a major problem.

The amount of money the common man spends on taxes, right now, is quite large. Road tax and registration in a city like Bangalore is extremely high, and a car worth 5.5 lakhs will otherwise cost 6.2 lakhs on the road. That is 70k in just tax. And it's a lot of money to spend.

But where does all this money go? I don't see it going into the development of infrastructure.

Ever since the reach-1 of the Metro had started in Bangalore, the roads underneath the reach have been the pits. It's absolutely horrible. The entire CMH road stretch is bumpy and uneven, not to mention outright dangerous. There are metal parts jutting out of the road for crying out loud!

The Govt has not done anything about it. It's been 2 months, and the drive underneath the Metro bridge is pathetic to say the least. Is it their way of forcing people to leave their vehicles behind and take the Metro? Ensuring that the roads underneath the I-Reach are bad? You either take the Metro or drive over horrible roads?

There is a massive pot-hole that has come up right below the Ulsoor Metro Station. It's so huge, that an 800 had actually gotten stuck in it and couldn't get out!

Collecting tax from citizens is alright, as long as it goes to the right hands and is put to proper use.

I don't mind paying added tax, as long as I know that the money is going to be used for the purpose of development.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 16th December 2011 at 20:56.
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Old 16th December 2011, 21:30   #37
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

I agree completely! I am easy paying anything the government asks of me provided it is fair and provided it actually goes into development rather than into some sleazy bandicoot politico's Swiss account!
I don't see why my hard earned has to fund some scummy politico or corporator's life!

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Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax is a great idea.

Last edited by Samurai : 16th December 2011 at 22:14. Reason: error in quote
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Old 16th December 2011, 22:11   #38
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

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Whatever said and done, I think it would be prudent to buy your diesel car now in case anyone is planning on buying. I for one, wouldn't want to take chances with the whims and fancies of the politicos out there!
I totally echo that sentiment. whoever is planning to buy a diesel car should buy it at the earliest. I am sure next year onwards they will bring is some form of taxation which will make the diesel cars even more costly.
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Old 18th December 2011, 07:44   #39
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Rather they should wake up and probably give massive discounts to the hybrid car segment if they are serious about going green. Better traffic management, ensuring that roads are in good condition etc would go a long way in reducing the carbon footprint. If taxes were the answer to our country's problem then there wouldn't have been anything wrong already!
Agree 500% to this . The government should have started encouraging private car owners to switch to hybrids at least 2-3 years back creating an infrastructure and support mechanism for it. Hybrid and alternate energy cars are perfect for city runabouts and most owners who use it for city driving or have a second car for city runs would find it perfect. They are typically smaller in size use alternate or way less fuel. Some of the Scandinavian countries and some states in the US have already adopted it. If one sat back and did a little analysis, in my view at least even 50% of the car owners using their cars for city runs if adopted hybrid or alternate energy cars will result in huge savings in fuel and will do miracles for the environment.

<rant>
But alas our government is more concerned about picking the pockets of citizens who earn an honest living by milking them through various taxes. A reduction in demand of petrol will be a body blow to the government revenues. I distinctly remember an incident 3/4 years back when Toyota was introducing the Prius, and I think they sell it as a CBU given the whopping Rs 30 lac OTR price, Toyota had asked the then finance minister Mr. Chidambaram for an exemption of the 100% duties given its hybrid nature, which Chidambaram flatly refused . I often wonder what kind of fascination our PM has for this good for nothing dolt. If the Prius was exempted, it would have been a formidable C+ segment competitor given its claimed diesel like combined fuel efficiency and absolutely noiseless operation. I guess the government adopts and will adopt the same strategy towards other hybrid or electric cars to ensure the petrol buying public continues to fill the government coffers.
</rant>
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Old 18th December 2011, 08:00   #40
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Just read that they are planning a new "Green Cess" on Petrol so as to discourage use of private vehicles. Additionally, there will be a 7.5% urban tax on petrol cars and 20% tax on diesels!!
If the frequent fuel price hikes don't discourage people, these measures won't either. Provide good public transportation and people will automatically reduce their use of private vehicles.
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Old 18th December 2011, 10:25   #41
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

Check out this video on how the dutch got their cycle paths,


Shows what strong willpower from a sensible Govt can do.
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Old 20th December 2011, 09:57   #42
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

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Originally Posted by parik_ind View Post
through lower tax/ permits or insurance premiums (like this one especially - forgot who said it )

Parik
It was me

Govt is busy finding ways to harass road users by some way or the other. First heavy road tax, then those potholed roads and now this green tax next in line probably is congestion tax in few zones.
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Old 21st December 2011, 13:14   #43
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

There are only two things which will clear our roads of the massive traffic

. Excellent public transport. Metro for medium to long distance, supplemented by feeder buses. Needless to say the ticketing should be point to point rather than mode specific. Even better issue an unlimited ride daily/weekly/monthly passes as many European countries do, and watch the public changing over to "public transport".

. Once petroleum resources start dwindling, the prices of fuel will rise, and private ridership will reduce drastically, at least for most of the poor and middle class. There will always be the rich who will be able to afford private transportation, but the majority will not.

With all the hue and cry over pricing diesel, and its repercussions to the economy, I wonder what will happen once the fuel runs out, is it back to electrical buses/trams and trains, with animal drawn carts for the last mile?

I think now is the best time to buy a farm and start raising Horses.
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Old 22nd January 2012, 05:24   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy
There are only two things which will clear our roads of the massive traffic

. Excellent public transport. Metro for medium to long distance, supplemented by feeder buses. Needless to say the ticketing should be point to point rather than mode specific. Even better issue an unlimited ride daily/weekly/monthly passes as many European countries do, and watch the public changing over to "public transport".

I think now is the best time to buy a farm and start raising Horses.
When my dad started out in planting, they used to use horses to get about the estates/tea gardens.
I love horses myself, but the poor creatures would simply choke in our urban pollution!

A few things that would help in reducing congestion as you say would be the cess and tax. Also a congestion charge for city centers and the creation of proper bicycle paths across town.

Pipe dreams in this new resurgent India? Yes, I guess so!
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Old 26th November 2012, 16:00   #45
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Default Re: Proposed - Green Cess and Urban Transport Tax

Read an article, thought of sharing (am not sure if really an update though!)

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/green-tax.../307474-3.html

Also, the following one.

http://www.treehugger.com/cars/delhi...last-year.html
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