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Old 21st July 2012, 14:10   #91
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
There is something intriguing about this handling charges thing that I do not get at all. When I bought my car recently I dealt directly with the GM and he was instrumental in arranging a quick delivery. I told him his Insurance rates are stratospheric and that I can get one outside at less than half of what he is asking for. He relented on that and agreed to let me get my own insurance. Ditto with accessories that were apparently minimal that I needed to buy (in case you are wondering the car is XUV for which 100s were after them and were even willing to pay premium for). Again I managed to make them agree not to force me to pick any accessories. The nice man agreed to everything though he said to his XUV marketing head, jocularly, that "there is no fun in selling the car to sir". However, when it came to the handling charges he just dug in his heels for that small 5k. He said thats simply not waivable. I was stumped. Here the man agreed to forego many thousands more when he could have easily charged those premia and yet he just stood steadfast on that paltry 5k! I agreed to pay that as by then I had already negotiated a very good deal on a car which was (still is) running in black across the country.

But then the question remains, what is so special about this handling charges that the dealers just absolutely refuse to budge out of?
I apply simple logic here. A car seller is suppose to sell a car. Rest of services like finance,insurance,accessories are like value added services they CAN offer and customer CAN buy. However customer has complete right not to opt for insurance,accessories from car seller. So if GM was kind enough not to press you to buy same from them, there is nothing great about it.

Now comming to Handelling charges, why should customer pay more than MRP of product? This MRP also includes margin of dealer and other overheads to get the car to Showroom. If dealer feels, margin is less and over heads are more, they should discuss this with Manufacturer to increse their margins.

But almost all dealers opt for easy way out, just fleece unknowing customer and earn double margins. I understand RTO undertable charges needs to be paid by SOMEBODY (we are in india !). So dealer should upfront about it and give options to customer. If customer wants to register car through dealer, customer should pay dealer. Else option should be given to customer to register car on his own.

Last edited by idea : 21st July 2012 at 14:14.
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Old 21st July 2012, 15:52   #92
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I just want to add an opinion as to why these dealers may not be willing to waive off handling charges but may give other discounts.

Two similar instances come to mind,:

1. During college days all people selling prepaid cellphone Recharge coupons formed an association and put up photocopies of notices that they are going to charge 5 rs per 100 rs recharge. On protesting this a friendly guy told me the association goondas won't let him do business if word got out that he isn't charging extra.

2.when I went to buy a set of a particular PC speakers, I hunted around different shops in a city but they would all quote the same minimum price. Not nudging even 100 rs on a 5k purchase! When I falsely implied to a guy that I am getting a better deal somewhere else,he pestered me for 10 minutes to find out the name of the seller. Selling me goods became second priority for him!

3.chemists associations selling drugs at ridonculous prices.

4.A photographer in court premises claiming to be government approved and charging exorbitant rates for photos used in land registration. When I caught him he tried to lie that he was paying licence fee of 25 lakhs to the government which is a lie! He challenged me to get my paperwork done without his stamp on the photos! I was advised against pursuing the matter by a Lawyer buddy.

So ultimately I think its a cartel! And the money is shared by the dealers with payoffs to concerned officials!

I welcome more discussion on the matter.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 09:42   #93
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

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Originally Posted by drsingh View Post
I just want to add an opinion as to why these dealers may not be willing to waive off handling charges but may give other discounts.

Two similar instances come to mind,:

1. During college days all people selling prepaid cellphone Recharge coupons formed an association and put up photocopies of notices that they are going to charge 5 rs per 100 rs recharge. On protesting this a friendly guy told me the association goondas won't let him do business if word got out that he isn't charging extra.

2.when I went to buy a set of a particular PC speakers, I hunted around different shops in a city but they would all quote the same minimum price. Not nudging even 100 rs on a 5k purchase! When I falsely implied to a guy that I am getting a better deal somewhere else,he pestered me for 10 minutes to find out the name of the seller. Selling me goods became second priority for him!

3.chemists associations selling drugs at ridonculous prices.

4.A photographer in court premises claiming to be government approved and charging exorbitant rates for photos used in land registration. When I caught him he tried to lie that he was paying licence fee of 25 lakhs to the government which is a lie! He challenged me to get my paperwork done without his stamp on the photos! I was advised against pursuing the matter by a Lawyer buddy.

So ultimately I think its a cartel! And the money is shared by the dealers with payoffs to concerned officials!

I welcome more discussion on the matter.
Valid point of view. It is cartel - May not be well connected. These are entities who work for their own individual benefit at cost of fleecing customers.

At sametime, if a customer doesnt want to pay these handelling charges, he should not also expect any freebies from car dealer. It should be fair on both sides.

Giving freebies is against manufacturer policy unless approved by manufacturer centrally. However to close customers and considering fact there are multiple dealers in city, such freebies are offered and ofcourse SOMEBODY has to pay for them. Here it is customers !! Dealers also get Margin on those accessories too - not to mention.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 10:18   #94
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

I bought a Honda Brio a couple of months back. The quotation I got included ~6k as these charges. I wrote to the showroom guys with a cc to Honda, attaching the cDelhi Transport Authority notice against the charges.

The charges were promptly dropped, and a fresh quotation issued.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 10:59   #95
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

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Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
I bought a Honda Brio a couple of months back. The quotation I got included ~6k as these charges. I wrote to the showroom guys with a cc to Honda, attaching the cDelhi Transport Authority notice against the charges.

The charges were promptly dropped, and a fresh quotation issued.
You are lucky to be in Delhi.

In pune, it is a dificult situation. However, i have also decided take this up now.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 14:39   #96
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

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Originally Posted by idea View Post
I apply simple logic here. A car seller is suppose to sell a car. Rest of services like finance,insurance,accessories are like value added services they CAN offer and customer CAN buy. However customer has complete right not to opt for insurance,accessories from car seller. So if GM was kind enough not to press you to buy same from them, there is nothing great about it.

Now comming to Handelling charges, why should customer pay more than MRP of product? This MRP also includes margin of dealer and other overheads to get the car to Showroom. If dealer feels, margin is less and over heads are more, they should discuss this with Manufacturer to increse their margins.

But almost all dealers opt for easy way out, just fleece unknowing customer and earn double margins. I understand RTO undertable charges needs to be paid by SOMEBODY (we are in india !). So dealer should upfront about it and give options to customer. If customer wants to register car through dealer, customer should pay dealer. Else option should be given to customer to register car on his own.
While all that you said works good on theory in practical situations things are a little more complex. Economy is driven by demand and supply... Or else danda. Now say a product like Toyota Fortuner or M&M XUV or may be Swift from Maruti to an extent enjoy a healthy backlog (healthy for the dealer) and they just have no incentive to think amenably to what the buyer says. Its always take if you want it but I am not going to change my terms.

Of course, if he is doing something illegal and he knows that then the fear of the danda may work.

On the other hand with a product not moving so well you may manage to get a good deal on everything when the dealer is keen to get your business.

When I bought my XUV there was a huge crowd waiting outside to get their hands on one but XUV bookings were close. In such a situation when the dealer agrees to get me one directly and then also agrees not to force me to buy the insurance or accessories from him he definitely did some favor as there were many out there who were willing to pay for all that and then some more just to get the vehicle.

And hence that rhetorical question... what was so special about the handling charges that even though the GM was ok to waive off everything else that he could have forced upon me in that situation he stuck to his ground on the handling charges!
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Old 22nd July 2012, 19:01   #97
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Of course, if he is doing something illegal and he knows that then the fear of the danda may work.

On the other hand with a product not moving so well you may manage to get a good deal on everything when the dealer is keen to get your business.

And hence that rhetorical question... what was so special about the handling charges that even though the GM was ok to waive off everything else that he could have forced upon me in that situation he stuck to his ground on the handling charges!
You are right. Law of economics prevails. Especially when demand is on higher side, even making a illegal/ilogical demand (insurance/accessories here) can be pushed heavily and even buyer is not left with much options - in case he requires product real bad. Just to quote one more example

- forced sell of pressure cooker/gas burner/Tea? with new cooking gas connection.
- First day - Friday - movie screening of fav actor - buying tickets in black (Surcharge).
- Tatkal tickets for railway - buying tickets in black (Surcharge).
- Life saving drugs - (Dont be surprised- it happens.)


List could be endless. We just pay that "extra" to ensure we get the product. :-).

Hope not going off-topic. Mostly buying behaviour and seller encashing the same. - Skiming Policy.

Last edited by idea : 22nd July 2012 at 19:05.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 19:38   #98
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
I bought a Honda Brio a couple of months back. The quotation I got included ~6k as these charges. I wrote to the showroom guys with a cc to Honda, attaching the cDelhi Transport Authority notice against the charges.

The charges were promptly dropped, and a fresh quotation issued.

Excellent move!!

This should be made as a recommended measure for all TBhpians and their acquaintances/family members purchasing vehicles and highlighted appropriately in the relevant sections of TBhp.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 01:01   #99
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

Quote:
Originally Posted by idea View Post
.. But almost all dealers opt for easy way out, just fleece unknowing customer and earn double margins. I understand RTO undertable charges needs to be paid by SOMEBODY (we are in india !). So dealer should upfront about it and give options to customer. If customer wants to register car through dealer, customer should pay dealer. Else option should be given to customer to register car on his own ....
What I have noticed on many occasions is, the dealer will never charge you the correct amount for registration (road tax + registration fee). There is always a 'agent' commission built-in. Generally people don't cross verify this.

As for registering the car yourself, you can. Most details are available on the RTO websites, but, ground realities are very different. Just try to register a car in a new state where you can't speak the local language. I have a first hand experience, and its not a pleasant one.

Maybe we should make a note of these points in the T-BHP checklist for buying new cars.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:34   #100
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

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Maybe we should make a note of these points in the T-BHP checklist for buying new cars.
Note is already there mentioned by GTO. It somewhat goes like this "Do not pay any amount over above registration charges".

But we certainly need to have a small article stating "Art of Buying a car in India" covering insurance, accessories, inflated RTO charges and ways to deal with it.

Last edited by idea : 23rd July 2012 at 12:35.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 15:46   #101
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

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Originally Posted by idea View Post
Note is already there mentioned by GTO. It somewhat goes like this "Do not pay any amount over above registration charges".
I think we all agree that the RTO is one of the most corrupt places in India,, so some 'Suvidha Shulk' may be almost mandatory.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 18:13   #102
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

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I think we all agree that the RTO is one of the most corrupt places in India,, so some 'Suvidha Shulk' may be almost mandatory.
Problem here is Dealer is charging 'Suvidha Shulk' on "RTO 'Suvidha Shulk' "
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Old 30th July 2012, 18:43   #103
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

I paid a heavy 26k as handling charges for the BMW X1 and then I know that I cannot complain much as I got a hefty discount which actually surprised me, but they have been shrewd enough to cover some ground there.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 16:03   #104
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

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Originally Posted by idea View Post
Recently baught a CNG wagonR in pune. As per overall cost break up, Rs 27513/- was towards RTO Charges. I have debit note from dealer for the same.

But as figures were not matching (For CNG , Registration cost is just 5% of Ex Showroom cost.). On further investigation dealer has given me following breakup of 27513/-. This break up was no where explicitely mentioned/explained.

So dealer is charging me 4495/- for handelling charges.

I have given dealer prints of new papers and Court ruling stating handelling charges cant be charged. However they are not saying anything on that as of now but after 3 days they have issued debit note with break up.

I have asked dealer to elaborate on handelling and administrative charges on mail.

Based on their reply, i will raise concern with MSIL.


What next. Pls advice.

It is not about money, but not liking fact of being cheated. Forgot to mention, they have screwed my delivery experience also..



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All.. Here is some update in my case.

I have been constantly following up with dealer through calls and mails for last 3 weeks. I also met their sales manager, customer care manager to put my case and asked for resolution.

But dealer was not relenting.

Today i met their MD and had heated exchange too. Though my primary goal is to prove my point that they should not fleece customers by hiding these charges under head of ""RTO"

Mr MD was not able to answer not even single logical query raised by me against their mal-practices.

At one level of duscussion, MD started baiming me for being a "Nauisance creating customer" and these are trick to take out money. (I was patiently listening to him and at end told him this is MY OWN MONEY which you have wrongly collected !!). After all he also has right to express :-)

He also went to the level that he runs business in crores and 4K is nothing for him. He can give away just like it. And He will also Sue me for defamation and i can complaint whoever i want. He is fine with that...

I didnt loose my cool and raised my counter concerns. He also said "It is Indusry Practice, every dealer is doing this" And there is nothing wrong..

But i stood my ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by idea View Post
I apply simple logic here. A car seller is suppose to sell a car. Rest of services like finance,insurance,accessories are like value added services they CAN offer and customer CAN buy. However customer has complete right not to opt for insurance,accessories from car seller. So if GM was kind enough not to press you to buy same from them, there is nothing great about it.

Now comming to Handelling charges, why should customer pay more than MRP of product? This MRP also includes margin of dealer and other overheads to get the car to Showroom. If dealer feels, margin is less and over heads are more, they should discuss this with Manufacturer to increse their margins.

But almost all dealers opt for easy way out, just fleece unknowing customer and earn double margins. I understand RTO undertable charges needs to be paid by SOMEBODY (we are in india !). So dealer should upfront about it and give options to customer. If customer wants to register car through dealer, customer should pay dealer. Else option should be given to customer to register car on his own.
Managed to get cheque today. Nothing to celebrate. Makes me ponder there are still hundreds of buyer getting robbed every day across country and they dont even know. Not sure when can be done to literate them.

Getting money back was not easy at all. They played every possbile trick to discourage me. This includes giving reference of company Chairman where i am employed !! (Never understood why it was done as it is my personal matter.)

Any how planning to donate this money ahead and never to send my vehicle for servicing to same seller.

To All members, if you are buying/recently baught a car - Please dont hesitate to ask for waiver/refund. It is possible.



@Mods: Combined earlier posts to give all readers to give complete picture in single read.
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Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too-img013.jpg  


Last edited by idea : 2nd August 2012 at 16:20.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 20:01   #105
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Default re: Delhi Transport Dept tells Dealers to stop "Handling Charges" SCAM. EDIT: Telangana and Kerala too

Thanks for sharing & it is great to know that you kept up the fight.

You are correct, these dealers have the courage to blatantly ask for these charges since most people choose to not discuss/fight on this matter considering it's a few thousand bucks in a purchase involving lacs. But, once again, great to know that you took this through to the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idea View Post
Managed to get cheque today. Nothing to celebrate. Makes me ponder there are still hundreds of buyer getting robbed every day across country and they dont even know. Not sure when can be done to literate them.

Getting money back was not easy at all. They played every possbile trick to discourage me. This includes giving reference of company Chairman where i am employed !! (Never understood why it was done as it is my personal matter.)

Any how planning to donate this money ahead and never to send my vehicle for servicing to same seller.

To All members, if you are buying/recently baught a car - Please dont hesitate to ask for waiver/refund. It is possible.



@Mods: Combined earlier posts to give all readers to give complete picture in single read.
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