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Old 14th December 2012, 19:28   #1771
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

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Originally Posted by karty_83 View Post
I doubt if this would happen.

1) Ford will lose its novelty factor of providing fuel efficient petrol engine. This will affect their sales.
Yeah but they will not have to advertise that '1.3 million cars in India use our engine(multijet)' and beg people to buy their cars. Ford will continue to sell a good amount of cars even if there are other cars using their ecoboost engine. Unfortunately our first priority is price of the car. This scene is changing day by day. But if Ford prices its cars well then their cars will surely do well just like the figo did.
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Old 14th December 2012, 19:35   #1772
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I'm wondering if this query warrants a separate thread but here goes my take:

The Ecoboost will not become the national engine because this is Fords baby at the moment, it's their cash cow if you may.

They will not license their patented technology to anybody else. Moreover at the moment only Ecosport will sport this engine. The Figo and Fiesta already have their own.
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Old 14th December 2012, 19:47   #1773
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

Its definitely petrol head times in 2013. Not to mention the 1.2 TSI from VW.
The two "little fellas" are sure to raise some major storm.

I sincerely hope, Ford will have facelifts and would slowly change all their 1.6L to 1L ecosboost.
I think its already happening in the EU markets.

VW already has 1.4TSI in the country. I dont think they would get to C segment as it powers
the Jetta today. May be 1.2TSI would land in there.

But surely I dont expect them to find their way to other brands. Its their respective USPs
and hence would only be used to boost their sales.

Last edited by ampere : 14th December 2012 at 19:51.
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Old 14th December 2012, 20:12   #1774
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Theres a talk about 7 seater eco sport being launched in Brazil , with the same wheel base and slated production date to be somewhere in 2015.
Source -
(http://www.oncars.in/Car-News-Detail...r-version/3364)
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Old 14th December 2012, 20:13   #1775
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

Well, firstly this whole national engine thing has come up because the multijet is used by as many as 5 OEM's and it powers so many vehicles.

This will not be the case for the Ecoboost, and it will most likely be used only in the Ecosport.

If we are talking engine technology, then yes, since this would easily be the most hi-tech engine in the mass market segment.

2013 looks like its going to be a good year for petrol cars, with the Ecoboost, the 1.2TSI and Abarth coming to India. Hope fuel taxes and subsidy is taken care of soon to ensure a level playing field to ensure that such engines do not die a slow death.

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 14th December 2012 at 20:17.
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Old 14th December 2012, 20:13   #1776
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

Nice thread. But TSI has been around for much longer than the Ecoboost right? Its got mixed reviews worldwide if you check feedback and read the forums. Matters are complicated cause VW A.S.S. is consistent world wide - sucks & does not usually honour warranty! The 1.3multijet became a national engine cause of MSIL - big portfolio and wide A.S.S. It wouldn't have worked so well had it not been for MSIL. So we will have to wait and see how the Ecoboost is received/reviewed in real world outside of these forums.

But with petrol engines becoming irrelevant, whether Ecoboost rules the chart or not is an academic question. Most petrolheads run diesel these days unless you are either a fanatic or have a comfy pile to burn/own 2 cars, one of them being diesel of course!

Its like being a world champ in kabaddi when the only thing this nation cares for is cricket. You mostly only play for pride!
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Old 14th December 2012, 20:44   #1777
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilesh5417 View Post
Most petrolheads run diesel these days unless you are either a fanatic or have a comfy pile to burn/own 2 cars, one of them being diesel of course!

Its like being a world champ in kabaddi when the only thing this nation cares for is cricket. You mostly only play for pride!
Agree with what you say however, that's due to the irrational fuel pricing strategy. Bigger question is, will it continue being irrational? Probably not. The way I see it, it's good that engines like Ecoboost are being developed. It's just natural progression that we move towards more efficient engines. I remember studying during my college days (studied one day prior to exams so might not remember accurately) that 60-70% of the energy is lost during the combustion stage in ICE (not music). If we can make engines that can reduce the energy loss, I am sure cars will be able to run with engines that have much lesser displacement than what we see now. Thus, lesser fuel will be burnt and hopefully emissions will also reduce.

I drive a car that has 1.4L turbo charged petrol engine. I also have a Punto diesel that does 1/3rd the mileage of T-jet. I don't have a comfortable pile to burn (earn enough to manage my expenses) and wouldn't want to be called a fanatic too. It's just about priorities, after a long hard day in office I find the T-jet the best way to recharge. Borrowing GTO's line - There's more to life than KPL.

I give a to Ecoboosts, T-jets, TSIs and the likes of them. May the engines keep evolving and just dream of a day when an engine with 600 CC displacement produces 100 BHP and 200 NM torque.

Last edited by Biraj : 14th December 2012 at 20:47.
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Old 14th December 2012, 21:33   #1778
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinmaybaikar View Post

The Multijet engine by Fiat is already called the our national diesel engine, but the petrolheads will never be happy with the diesel engines. So can the Ecoboost be the national petrol/petrolhead engine?
I think there is an underlying reason why the MultiJet Diesel mill is touted to be the 'national-engine'.

This engine is used in several applications: Maruti Swift, Maruti Ritz, Maruti SX4, Maruti Ertiga, Tata Indica Vista, Fiat Punto, Fiat Linea, Chevrolet Sail U-VA, Premier Rio, etc.

Similarly, Renault's K9K engine is found in several cars as well: Nissan Micra, Nissan Sunny, Renault Duster, Renault Pulse, Renault Scala, etc.

So unless Ford lends the EcoBoost engine to other manufacturers, I highly doubt one could call it the national-petrol-engine.

If anything, you could call the TSI mill from the VAG our national-petrol-engine, given that it is used in a wide range of applications. Namely, the Skoda Laura, the Skoda Superb, the VW Jetta, the Audi A4, etc.

Of course, none of these applications run the exact same tune. They differ with regard to gearbox, mapping among other things.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 15th December 2012 at 12:52. Reason: Typo corrected! Thanks Anshuman :)
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Old 14th December 2012, 21:46   #1779
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

I guess Ford will never lend its Ecoboost Technology to any other brand. If it does, Brands like Maruti would have a runaway success due to the turbo petrol + Typical light weight body of the car
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Old 14th December 2012, 23:48   #1780
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by niket.dhirai View Post
Theres a talk about 7 seater eco sport being launched in Brazil , with the same wheel base and slated production date to be somewhere in 2015.
Source -
(http://www.oncars.in/Car-News-Detail...r-version/3364)
I doubt this will ever be launched in India, or even for that matter anywhere else. The Ford Kuga 2013 is most probably going to be a 7 seater due to its increased length - and Ford would much rather bring that here rather than making the ecosport a 7 seater.
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Old 15th December 2012, 05:57   #1781
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

Multijet is the National diesel not because its the best diesel engine in India (I reserve that tag to Renault K9K 1.5L which can scale all the way from 68 to 110 PS which is highest PS achieved by a "small" excise friendly diesel engine displacement and until the 85PS tune the engine barely has ANY turbo lag AND is capable of being used in a 4x4 vehicle which the 1.3 MJD is not) but because of volumes.

The National petrol engine is probably the Suzuki K-series (K10b and K12 and now K14) because they power numerous small cars that together number atleast 20k to 30k in sales per month - more than almost every other manufacturer's total monthly sales.

Ford 1.0 Ecoboost (would've been better if it came in a rebored for India 1.2 form) would probably end up being called India's best petrol engine though...
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Old 15th December 2012, 08:32   #1782
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

The EcoBoost 1.0 wont be licensed for use by other manufacturers for the following reasons:
-It will be expensive to just license an Engine technology , when they can develop one on their own. Also , using another manufacturer's engine in another car questions the credibility of a manufacturer (Can't they build a good engine?)
- All the Companies are already making (or have made) similar capacity Turbocharged Petrol Engines.
Eg:- 1.0 TSI (in the VW Up! Family and Taigun),
Fiat's Turbocharged MultiAir Engines
,Hyundai's recently shown off 1 litre Turbocharged Petrol Engine.

The only companies that I think , that wont find it feasible enough to invest in a new technology would be the diesel driven companies in India. Eg: TATA could license petrol engines (as it already does in the Vista and Manza)
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Old 15th December 2012, 09:24   #1783
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

Even though the specs sheet as well as competency of the EcoSport Engine does warrant that this engine be present in maximum petrol cars plying on our roads, still i don't think any car manufacturer apart from Maruti can ever achieve anything of that sort. The sheer number of vehicles sold by Maruti lend it a huge advantage and no other engine can even think of coming close for at least a good part of the next decade.

Unless Ford decides for a ToT (Transfer of Technology) / license Maruti / Tata, which seems highly unlikely (as Suzuki by itself have competent enough engines) this engine should in all probabilities have little to no chance of making it as the most sold petrol engine. Sad but true !!
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Old 15th December 2012, 09:42   #1784
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Exclamation Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

When I was in US 2 weeks ago, there were a lot of headlines on unexplained fires in 1.6 L Ecoboost engines. Ford had to recall a large number of 2013 escape vehicles while they were investigating the causes of the fire. IMO, small capacity turbocharged engines need to be proven out over a longer period of time.

http://www.examiner.com/article/ford...ands-to-europe
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Old 15th December 2012, 10:53   #1785
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

Fiat has had many failed attempts to enter the Indian market, so the deals with multiple OEMs to source diesel engines was one way to earn some much needed cash to sustain their operations here. However I personally don't know if it's helping Fiat sell its cars. After all if the Vista has the same engine as the Punto, why should I pay a premium over the Vista, and if the Swift has the same engine and a better service network, why should I splurge on the Punto?

Ford on the other hand is still aiming to become the mainstream player, and they do (seem to) have the ability to sustain their operations for a longer period (wasn't it the only auto company to not require bailout from the government during the slowdowns?). So I doubt if Ford would be interested to share the spoils with other manufacturers. It would liquidate their own product position. After all it would be anybody's guess which car would be chosen if the Maruti Ertiga and the Ford Ecosport had the same engine and I had to choose between one of them.

By not sharing the engine technology, Ford will try to gain an upper hand in the engine performance department, and if at all there arose a need to share it with others, Ford would demand a very heavy premium. In case of Fiat, it's a matter of equal importance to Fiat to be able to sell as well as other manufacturers to be able to source good diesel engines.

Then again, diesel engines have so far been a forte of only a few players such as Tata and Mahindra. The others haven't really come close to these two for producing efficient and mass-maintainable diesel engines (at least till the advent of the common rail engines). So instead of setting up diesel engine manufacturing facilities, finding synergies in the existing market made financial sense. Not so with the petrol engines. Almost every major automobile company has their own petrol engines (this statement does not include cross-sourcing between sibling companies like Skoda and Volkswagen), so if Ford can bring out a better engine, so can the other companies.

Also if the claimed 20% improvement in FE is as compared to the existing Ford engines (most likely), then the Maruti and Tata engines could be tweaked further to produce 20% more FE. With the Ikon giving me 12kmpl on a good day and the Nano giving me 23kmpl, imagine a 20% boost in both these engines and while the Ikon struggles to cross the 15kmpl figure the Nano would be looking to reach an almost unbelievable 30kmpl.

While the above analogy is not perfect, it should be good enough to know why the Eco-boost or whatever cannot be an attractive option to the other manufacturers.
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