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Old 15th December 2012, 11:14   #1786
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

I don't think Ecoboost will be the national petrol engine as -

1) Renault-Nissan already have such a motor for India if need be (0.9 TCI engine).

2) Hyundai and Tata Motors are working on something similar, if I remember correctly, the Hyundai HexaSpace concept is powered by the 1.2-liter turbo GDI engine, which will certainly shake hands with the next gen i10 (BA) and next gen i20 (IB).

3) Tata Motors is also developing a turbo petrol, this maybe useful for JLR vehicles as well as products that are destined for European markets or export markets in general. This project maybe a part of the joint synergies explored to develop powertrains as currently JLR uses Ford technology (Ecoboost) which leads to costly royalty fees.

4) Suzuki may not want to source it from Ford, as their kei cars are turbo petrol, and you betcha! they are working on Turbo-direct-injection of their engines too.

5) Volkswagen have the TSI, so sourcing the Ecoboost is ruled out.

6) Fiat have something similar, they have the Multi-air engine which provides similar gains.
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Old 15th December 2012, 12:14   #1787
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
If anything, you could call the 1.8 TSI mill from the VAG our national-petrol-engine, given that it is used in a wide range of applications. Namely, the Skoda Laura, the Skoda Superb, the VW Jetta, the Audi A4, etc.
Jetta does not come with 1.8 TSI, it has the 1.4TSI. 2.0TDI in VW group is the most shared engine in India, not 1.8 TSI.
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Old 15th December 2012, 12:22   #1788
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinmaybaikar View Post
This would be the most awaited launch of 2013.
True. This is going to be HUGE, specially if Ford gets the pricing bang-on! Here's an SUV that the middle class can realistically dream about. (I know Duster is already there, but i believe it is overpriced due to lack of competition. Once the market gets competitive, they will bring the price down).

But sadly - I would have to say that this thread is totally unrealistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinmaybaikar View Post
But the most talked about part of this launch is the 1.0 litre Ecoboost engine.
Sorry, but this is a HUGE misunderstanding IMO.

Yes - there is a lot of hype in team-bhp regarding the launch of the Ecoboost engine, but team-bhp doesn't represent the Indian automobile market in its entirety. It only represents one section of the car buying populace - the enthusiasts.

Ask anyone of the outsiders who have heard about the Ecosport, 90% of them will answer that the main highlights of the car are looks, compact footprint of less than 4m length & expected entry C segment prices. With the current disparity between diesel and petrol prices, its not surprising that they really dont care if a nice petrol engine is on offer or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinmaybaikar View Post
So can the Ecoboost be the national petrol/petrolhead engine?
  • National engine - No. Because it simply sell anywhere close to the numbers managed by some petrol competition/ the national diesel engine. Take the K series engines from Maruti for example.
  • Petrolhead engine - No. Please enlighten me why an enthusiast would choose the 1.0L Ecosport should be chosen over the 1.4 TJet, 1.2 TSi, 1.4 TSi etc? That too, in a heavier SUV format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftdiesel View Post
I'm wondering if this query warrants a separate thread but here goes my take
+ 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHG View Post
Multijet is the National diesel not because its the best diesel engine in India (I reserve that tag to Renault K9K 1.5L which can scale all the way from 68 to 110 PS which is highest PS achieved by a "small" excise friendly diesel engine displacement and until the 85PS tune the engine barely has ANY turbo lag AND is capable of being used in a 4x4 vehicle which the 1.3 MJD is not) but because of volumes.
  • Producing 67ps out of a 1461cc engine requires very little boost from the turbo. Its science that a smaller turbo will have less lag. I dont understand how you can tell its a better engine than the 1.3 JTD which produces 75ps from 1248cc.
  • 1.3 JTD has been used internationally to the tune of 105bhp.

  • Please educate me why a 90PS/200Nm@1750rpm version of the 1.3 JTD cannot be used in an SUV whereas the 85ps/190Nm@1900rpm k9K can be used?
  • Which engine do you think Maruti will plonk into the hood of their upcoming SUV based on the XA Alpha concept?

  • Let me ask you a similar question. VW 1.6 TDi in the Vento produces 105hp and 250 Nm@1500 rpm - from a 1598cc engine. K9K in Verito produces 68ps and 160Nm@1700rpm from 1461cc. The difference in performance between the two is unbelievable compared to the 120cc difference. Now - if i say the K9K is complete trash compared to the VW, would you be able to agree? Afterall, the difference in cc is much less than your comparison of 1.5 K9K with 1.3 JTD - which offer almost comparable performance. Lets stick to an apples to apples comparison based of solid figures that can be justified, shall we?

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 15th December 2012 at 12:25.
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Old 15th December 2012, 12:50   #1789
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Jetta does not come with 1.8 TSI, it has the 1.4TSI. 2.0TDI in VW group is the most shared engine in India, not 1.8 TSI.
Whoops, typo! I meant to say 'TSI' on the whole and not the 1.8 TSI in particular.

The Jetta 1.4 TSI is one of the cars we are looking at, when our plan to upgrade next year materializes. Among many others cars within the 15-20 lakh (OTR) bracket. The Laura vRS, Ford EcoSport are some of the cars to star in that list.

Before we start a discussion on 'national-engines', I suggest we decipher the meaning of it accurately.
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Old 15th December 2012, 16:28   #1790
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Check this out guys.

http://indianautosblog.com/2012/12/f...+Autos+blog%29

Looks Awesome
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Old 15th December 2012, 17:47   #1791
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbala View Post
Nice find! These real world pictures of EcoSport gives a better feel of its upcoming road presence. I hope its size should be equivalent to Duster.
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Old 15th December 2012, 21:12   #1792
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYSTEMIZED View Post
Nice find! These real world pictures of EcoSport gives a better feel of its upcoming road presence. I hope its size should be equivalent to Duster.

That will be hard. The Duster is substantially longer than 4 metres. It is pretty wide as well. Ford will have to package the Ecosport well so that the rear sets are not crampted and there is reasonable luggage space. The Duster has pretty spacious boot.
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Old 15th December 2012, 21:18   #1793
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Boot might be smaller but overall length might look the same cause of the wheel at the back.
This surely looks sportier than the duster
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Old 15th December 2012, 22:45   #1794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niks_devil666 View Post
Boot might be smaller but overall length might look the same cause of the wheel at the back.
This surely looks sportier than the duster
Yep. I Agree. Ecosport looks really sporty because of the cuts it has :-)

If you look at Duster, it's just plain vanilla.
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Old 15th December 2012, 23:13   #1795
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

First a few replies to particular points in bold

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
  • Producing 67ps out of a 1461cc engine requires very little boost from the turbo. Its science that a smaller turbo will have less lag. I dont understand how you can tell its a better engine than the 1.3 JTD which produces 75ps from 1248cc. you said it yourself. it produces lesser lag.
  • 1.3 JTD has been used internationally to the tune of 105bhp. is it available in such a form in India ?
  • Please educate me why a 90PS/200Nm@1750rpm version of the 1.3 JTD cannot be used in an SUV whereas the 85ps/190Nm@1900rpm k9K can be used? did I ever say it cannot be used at all ?
  • Which engine do you think Maruti will plonk into the hood of their upcoming SUV based on the XA Alpha concept? is this even relevant to what I said ?
  • Let me ask you a similar question. VW 1.6 TDi in the Vento produces 105hp and 250 Nm@1500 rpm - from a 1598cc engine. K9K in Verito produces 68ps and 160Nm@1700rpm from 1461cc. The difference in performance between the two is unbelievable compared to the 120cc difference. Now - if i say the K9K is complete trash compared to the VW, would you be able to agree? Afterall, the difference in cc is much less than your comparison of 1.5 K9K with 1.3 JTD - which offer almost comparable performance. Lets stick to an apples to apples comparison based of solid figures that can be justified, shall we?
My arguments are purely based on the fact that as far as India is concerned, only 1500cc and below diesels count for excise benefits. JTD may have a better architecture but 1248cc limits it to 90PS in India. VW 1.6 TDi doesn't even come within the tax bracket, and once again, as far as my comparison goes, displacement (within a tax bracket) was never considered. I was just interested in naming the most powerful (and sufficiently frugal) engine within the small car excise bracket. As of now, I see no challenger to the K9K (Honda and VW's 1.5L engines may change that but they're not here today).

No offence to you, but the world does not revolve around BHP per displacement the way you seem to project it. Atleast India doesn't, it revolves around engines meeting certain excise brackets, and Europe revolves around engines classified in bands emitting different amounts of CO2.

Anyway, I'm done telling whatever I had to in this thread, I'm leaving. Carry on the discussion...

Last edited by MHG : 15th December 2012 at 23:15.
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Old 15th December 2012, 23:55   #1796
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

  • First you call it the "best diesel engine in India". Now you say were "just interested in naming the most powerful (and sufficiently frugal) engine within the small car excise bracket"!
  • First you say that 1.3 JTD is not capable of being used in a 4*4 SUV - Qouting your words "AND is capable of being used in a 4x4 vehicle which the 1.3 MJD is not", and now you say "did I ever say it cannot be used at all ?" and "is this even relevant to what I said ?".
  • Where exactly in your post have you mentioned that you have considered excise benefits as the only criterion? You have mentioned "110 PS which is highest PS achieved by a small excise friendly diesel engine displacement". But that doesn't imply that excise brackets were your only main criterion for naming the "best diesel engine in India".
Anyways, no offence meant and taken - my gentle request to you is to key in your ideas with bit more clarity to avoid such misunderstandings.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 15th December 2012 at 23:57.
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Old 16th December 2012, 11:48   #1797
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Ecosport vital dimenssions difference between Brasil/Argentina and China models:

Brasil/Argentina Specifications:
Length / width / height (mm) 4241/1765/1693
Wheelbase (mm) 2521
Trunk volume (L) 362

China Specifications:
Length / width / height (mm) 4280/1785/1658

* Lenght increased by 39 mm
* Width increased by 20 mm
* Height decreased by 35 mm

Wheelbase (mm) 2530

* Increased by 9 mm

Trunk volume (L) 348

* Decreased by 14 L

Find the detail specifications for china spec check below:

eco.pdf

Last edited by bageherath : 16th December 2012 at 12:03. Reason: Add text
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Old 16th December 2012, 12:49   #1798
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Default Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
[*]Petrolhead engine - No. Please enlighten me why an enthusiast would choose the 1.0L Ecosport should be chosen over the 1.4 TJet, 1.2 TSi, 1.4 TSi etc? That too, in a heavier SUV format?
1.2 TSi-103bhp
1.4 TSi- 177 bhp
1.4 TJet-120hp-160hp (not sure about this)
1.0 Ecoboost-123hp

Even the petrolheads are price conscious.
These are the max pratical figures to which these engines can be tuned.
You have these 3 options available. Which one will you choose between the 1.2 TSi, 1.4 TJet, 1.0 Ecoboost to save money? Leave the 1.4 TSi.
Ofcourse the Ecoboost. It will be cheaper and also give fun.

Last edited by chinmaybaikar : 16th December 2012 at 12:59.
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Old 16th December 2012, 13:08   #1799
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Post Re: Can Ford's Ecoboost be the National petrol engine just like the Multijet in diese

A stirring thread Chinmay!

Personally I doubt Ford's ability or even an inclination to license it to other manufacturers/applications in India. Also I think from an engineering standpoint, the VW's TSI is still a far superior technology. It is just simply highly acclaimed and rewarded.

Perhaps we could have a poll on the 4 engines you've listed below - even add the Suzuki K-series and a few others. Each in their highest possible state of tune to say put them on an even keel. See what comes. Might make things even more interesting.

Mods - please consider if you see merit.

Last edited by Omtoatom : 16th December 2012 at 13:12.
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Old 16th December 2012, 19:58   #1800
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Another new spy video of Ford Ecosport testing in India(NH45). This time in the original Red colour. Video courtesy a youtube user Balaji R.

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