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Old 8th January 2013, 16:23   #2251
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by rajesh.sml View Post
Somehow I do not agree with this logic, that safety kit should not be standard. The kind of road accidents we see and hear around us almost everyday; demands safety kits to be standard across all cars.
Wow! You got that from my post? I think I clearly stated that safety equipment must be mandated by law. Which means when you buy a car, the manufacturer must fit it with ABS, airbags, ESP etc along with providing an engine + 4 wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I can't understand, for the life of me, why base-variants without important safety-features are being propagated, and here in T-BHP at that! For what? Just so that the price of the car comes down?
Who's propogating lack of safety features in cars and here in t-bhp at that!
Re-read my post. All I mentioned is the mentality where most folks skip on safety features just to save a few bucks when buying the car. Its a statement on the typical car buyers mentality, not propogating manufacturers to sell cars without safety features. If all variants available have safety features, people wouldn't have the choice to cut corners and bank that 50K for something else.

Quote:
I've said this before and I will say it again. You CANNOT put a price on safety.
I agree completely, thats why I said that safety features in vehicles should be mandated by law.

Sheesh, read my previous post properly before getting your knickers in a twist. There's more than a hint of sarcasm at the typical car buyer mentality.

Last edited by gomzi : 8th January 2013 at 16:30.
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Old 8th January 2013, 16:43   #2252
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
I was propagating it from a business point of view, the fact is that people will skip the safety features if they can get alloy wheels and a music system.
So business / numbers are more important than the life and safety of customers. Hmmm.. no comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Ford should keep the safety kit optional if it wants to price EcoSport nicely, that is the reality of the market.
What Ford should ideally do is what Gomzi has stated below -

Quote:
Originally Posted by gomzi View Post
Wow! You got that from my post? I think I clearly stated that safety equipment must be mandated by law. Which means when you buy a car, the manufacturer must fit it with ABS, airbags, ESP etc along with providing an engine + 4 wheels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomzi View Post
Who's propogating lack of safety features in cars and here in t-bhp at that!
Re-read my post. All I mentioned is the mentality where most folks skip on safety features just to save a few bucks when buying the car. Its a statement on the typical car buyers mentality, not propogating manufacturers to sell cars without safety features. If all variants available have safety features, people wouldn't have the choice to cut corners and bank that 50K for something else.

Sheesh, read my previous post properly before getting your knickers in a twist. There's more than a hint of sarcasm at the typical car buyer mentality.
Boss I read your post and I am with you on the issue. I'd decided to quote you because that is what I wanted to say but you had already said it so..
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Old 8th January 2013, 16:56   #2253
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Please understand that car-manufacturers are short-changing us by giving us variants sans safety-features. And we ourselves are to blame for this! Let's be the change!
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Originally Posted by sunilg33 View Post
Optional safety kit is the best way forward, if manufacturers can offer the safety kit as an option across variants that itself can make a huge difference.
From what I understand, ABS and airbags would be the first bottleneck for the companies to churn out volumes that we currently see for the best sellers. The supply for these raw materials are limited from the parts suppliers and is difficult to increase with short notice.

From a profit making perspective, it is really important for high volume players to ensure majority of cutomers doesn't need features that they cannot deliver at high volume. If not, these potential customers could end up with their competitors who offer these features. Best way to avoid this will be to ensure that the public doesn't care for these by giving them wrong perceptions.

Personally, I don't think any of the makers who give safety kit even in base model do it because of their love to Indians. There is always a minimum order that a company needs to take from the parts supplier and there is a maximum that the supplier can deliver based on his installed capacity.
  • For those who can hardly make the cut for minimum order with their total car sales, they have to sell these on every car and hence market themselves as 'caring for safety'.
  • For the high volume players who are still short on these kits even with the max output from supplier, they want any customer who could discard it to ignore this option so that they can sell more even with this constraint.
The moment some of these 'safety-focused' companies get better sales volumes, we'll see them introduce variants without safety kit. I'm pretty sure the low monthly sales of new Fiesta is the reason we still see safety kit on base version, rather than the other way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
The Swift sells in the non ABS version by the thousands, you rarely come across a loaded one. I am taking this as an example to prove that to achieve high sales, safety kit is not necessary, most people will opt to skip it.
Having purchased a Swift VDi with ABS, I feel it is a typical example of where the manufacturer forces the customer to walk through the line they draw, so as to get the maximum profits. When we went to dealership to book the car, the SA was strongly discouraging ABS and the usual remarks that Maruti have taught them to tell customers. Add to it the additional 2 months over the 4-5 month waiting period for the non-ABS VDi. From my experience, MSIL had no intentions of selling a ABS equipped car if they could help it.

With this attitude from dealership and the company, it is not the wish of the common man that comes into play. Aam aadmi is forced to ignore safety kit if he needs to get the car of his choice at the time he wants it!
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Old 8th January 2013, 17:12   #2254
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
So business / numbers are more important than the life and safety of customers. Hmmm.. no comment.
Actually the company has no obligation to give handful of customers all the safety options when the competition garners better sales without doing so. The Swift example I gave earlier is evidence of that, ABS equipped Swifts are rare, Z versions rarer still. You may not have a comment about it, I do, the point is, the majority will pass up safety features and Ford will be left with another Fiesta like launch.

Honda boasted about the safety everywhere approach and promptly dropped it when they decided to play the volume game with the Brio. The fact is that safety is currently not a legal requirement beyond compulsory seatbelts, ABS and Airbags add to cost seriously denting the company's price proposition. Price, looks and mileage is all it takes to sell a car here, Ford should avoid high tech and get the numbers.

The new Fiesta engine can get about 17 in b2b traffic and about 21 on the highway (with AC, both). The cost of the same will work against the product, tweak the 1.4 TDCI and kit it like the Figo- feaures plus safety only in the top end and it will do wonders to sales figures.
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Old 8th January 2013, 17:25   #2255
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I can't understand, for the life of me, why base-variants without important safety-features are being propagated, and here in T-BHP at that! For what? Just so that the price of the car comes down?
This might help you, a Nobel winning Economist explains it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I've said this before and I will say it again. You CANNOT put a price on safety. So what if the car is 50k extra. Make people understand that safety features are just as important as anything else. You wouldn't go out into the biting-cold without a jacket / sweater just because it's too expensive to buy just for one season in the year, now, would you?
Everybody does put a price on safety. Any car is safer than driving a motorcycle on our Indian roads. Yet, millions of people drive motorcycles because it is cheaper, often carrying their whole family on it. When such people upgrade to cars, they will choose the basic model and feel lot safer than before.
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Old 8th January 2013, 17:42   #2256
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

As for safety features, the way most people drive in India, they are needed more to protect people on the roads than the occupants!!!

REGARDLESS, you can be sure that Ford will not skimp on safety features EVEN IF that raises the pricing vs. others in the segment. So, if you value your life, get a Ford!!!
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Old 8th January 2013, 18:13   #2257
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by bageherath View Post
Ecosport interior Pic:-
That's a nice catch. Was it clicked on an Indian version?
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Old 8th January 2013, 19:05   #2258
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My 2 cents on the safety package.

I do NOT understand why would someone blame FORD alone for not providing the kit on Ecosport. The first thing we need to think & check are whether the competition offers it or not?! If they don't, why should Ford?! They tried doing it with Fiesta & we all know what happened.

From a business point of view, I would also skimp on these when

1. I know the majority of customers do NOT bother
2. Chances of a better sale when prices are lower
3. Competition do NOT offer these features (trim wise)

When I love to see all manufacturers provide atleast ABS on their vehicles, I am really not sure when we will start seeing it without mandating it by legal bodies. Inspite of the high fatality numbers, I don't know why the legal bodies have taken so much time to mandate safety kits!

Another alternative for Ford to indirectly influence the customer's choice is to do the reverse of what some manufacturers do. Produce the low variants without safety kit in low numbers & force up the waiting period while making safety clad versions available for immediate buying! This will make sure they have a competitive pricing trim wise & can influence the buyers to some extent. If people can pay Duster 50K extra (after price hikes & months of waiting for no extra features), they can pay the same for safety kit for a quicker delivery (0 waiting period as Ford aims at).

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 8th January 2013 at 19:08.
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Old 8th January 2013, 19:56   #2259
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Guys, enough with the safety discussion. We all agree that:

1. Safety is paramount
2. Not everyone can afford the safety kit
3. Unless the government passes a law that makes ABS and Airbags mandatory, manufacturers will not make the kit affordable.

And
1. Those who can afford safety kit (not just value them) will get the EcoSport in top trim
2. Those who can't afford it (let us not degrade these folks), will get the EcoSport in lower trims

We're "still" a supposedly free country. Peace kiddos?

Now, when is this darn thing launching?

Last edited by GTO : 10th January 2013 at 16:09. Reason: Please refer to cars by their full name only. No short-forms. Thanks
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Old 8th January 2013, 20:07   #2260
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Fresh catch of the Ecosport on Youtube:


Last edited by GTO : 9th January 2013 at 10:33. Reason: Embedding the youtube video properly
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Old 8th January 2013, 22:31   #2261
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post

Now, when is this darn thing launching?
Did my customary check with Metro Ford & Cauvery Ford this afternoon . Disappointing news, it is unlikely to launch by end of feb, now, it seems to be end of march.. Not sure if thats the final date as well. I was all but convinced that Feb is the month, but..
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Old 9th January 2013, 08:56   #2262
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
For those who can hardly make the cut for minimum order with their total car sales, they have to sell these on every car and hence market themselves as 'caring for safety'.
  • For the high volume players who are still short on these kits even with the max output from supplier, they want any customer who could discard it to ignore this option so that they can sell more even with this constraint.
Hi, I believe you have got the logic of supplies wrong. Let me put it in brief.

Things specific to safety are driven by technology investments. So if a manufacturer happens to develop them, he must invest the entirety (tools, line set up for manufacturing, and everything else) to the supplier. Things like airbag, ABS, etc. are not off the shelf items (like the door latches, hinges, lamps, bulbs, horns, etc.) which could be taken and fitted just like that.

A lot of testing, calibration (more than 10 sets of crashes is done for calibrating the air bag deployment sensor alone - fitted behind the bumper) go on specific to the vehicle model. Even stations where the airbags are fitted in the fitments line of vehicle assembly will need to be certified by independent agency (not indian origin though).

Volumes do not play a factor here as even 1 air bag or 10000 airbags, the company has to invest the same amount of money. Now as a manufacturer, the idea is to get the money put in these returned ASAP. So, the company chooses them as bare basic or high trimmed fashion, based on the volumes front.

You can observe the fact that all models sold in India with airbags / ABS would also be exported to countries having safety regulations mandatory. Thanks to them, we are getting air bag / ABS versions. Made for India only models would be deprived even of Power Steering as standard.

We don't have regulations mandating requirement of safety features. Once they are in place, we will see them as part of basic kit.

- So much of discussion on safety first, but wondering why still no PIL has been filed in SC regarding them.
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Old 9th January 2013, 11:54   #2263
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
This might help you, a Nobel winning Economist explains it.



Everybody does put a price on safety. Any car is safer than driving a motorcycle on our Indian roads. Yet, millions of people drive motorcycles because it is cheaper, often carrying their whole family on it. When such people upgrade to cars, they will choose the basic model and feel lot safer than before.
While watching the video i forgot what was being discussed on the forum!!!
Excellent Video
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Old 9th January 2013, 14:10   #2264
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by A M View Post
I don't know if the spare wheel is considered in the overall length or not.

What I was pointing out is that the overall length of the vehicle, as mentioned in the website, includes the rear mounted spare. Even then it is smaller than than the duster by 74mm.

Now if we take into account the width of the tyre, the cabin becomes even smaller.

Even if the tyre is a puny 165 section, the bumper to bumper usable space is smaller than the duster by about 165+74=239mm and this is when the tyre is literally pasted to the door. If you consider the tyre mounts, the figure will be closer to 260mm. Thats nearly 10 inches.

So either they have to make the engine compartment really cramped or it would be the space inside the cabin that would be compromised.

So I put my money on the argument that its the size of a hatch on steroids.
Well as far as I know, Indian rules for classification of a small car ( length under 4 m) do not include the tyre width if it is mounted externally as in case of the Ecosport and Quanto. I would like to believe that Ford will have taken advantage of this to maximise the internal space.
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Old 9th January 2013, 15:02   #2265
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by Gizmokid View Post
Did my customary check with Metro Ford & Cauvery Ford this afternoon . Disappointing news, it is unlikely to launch by end of feb, now, it seems to be end of march.. Not sure if thats the final date as well. I was all but convinced that Feb is the month, but..
Ford seems to have got a fabulous opportunity to regain the lost market share with the Ecosport by bringing in this model to India after having a tough time with NFS which is considered to be a failure due to wrong pricing . Everything seems to be in order for Ecosport till now; regarding the prices still with cross fingers until the final price lists are out. But has they forgotten the fact that time do matters. If Ford India decides to postpone the launch to later months of 2013, its surely going to pay off richly by losing a lot of prospective customers who are eagerly waiting for its launch from the time the prototype was unveiled.
Scoops of Ecosport are coming from various directions everyday and there is no official word from the American manufacturer when they are going to launch this product ! Some say Ecosport doing trails throughout the country to be a part of the promotion while some say it to be a test in which all variants of this vehicle are subjected to 2 lakh kms on the ODO before they are launched into the market. Ford India ! When are your going to launch the Ecosport in India ?
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