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Old 14th January 2012, 19:59   #241
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by cuboid View Post
^^^

And the first production Focus Electric delivered to Google.

This exciting very Aston-Martin-ish face is indeed becoming the face of Ford. And I personally like this better than the previous family face (Figo, New Fiesta).
Very True. In fact Ford owned Aston Martin some time ago.

I am happy to see that the British design/styling is coming back & will soon be seen in production model of Fusion (U.S)/Mondeo (U.K) & complete lineup.
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Old 17th January 2012, 18:48   #242
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I have some news, its not really concrete in the sense that it is not exact but gives you an idea of the launch of the EcoSport.

FIRST THE NEWS - The company is trying very hard and has set a target to release this car during the Diwali time. However, the original target was November end or December 1st week.

Also i have some FACTS about the ecoboost engine.

1. As some of you rightly pointed out that the engine is a cast iron crate and not an all aluminum. First lets clear the facts about all aluminum engines, all aluminum means the engine has been made out of aluminum alloys and not actual aluminum as aluminum is very soft and cant handle the heat and frictional forces generated in engines. Secondly, most of the moving components like piston rods, pistons, etc. are made out of cast iron in all all-aluminum engines as these moving components are subject to great heat because of friction and even aluminum alloys can not handle this wear and tear.
In short, when we say all-aluminum engine, only the crate is made out of aluminum alloys where as all the moving components are cast iron.



2. ALL ALUMINUM VS. CAST IRON.


ADVANTAGES OF CAST IRON -

A) extremely tough and robust. Will go lakhs of miles without ever dying out on you (subject to proper maintenance of course). That is why you still find all those muscle cars and pony cars from the 50s, 60s and 70s still running perfectly in the US. They all had cast iron blocks.
B) easier to warm up and very less prone to heat damage.
C) easier to mod and customize


DISADVANTAGES OF CAST IRON - the only disadvantage is that cast iron engines are more heavy than aluminum blocks and this affects the fuel efficiency and also makes the car front heavy and thus affects handling.
BUT, this problem wont be an issue in the EcoSport as the cast iron block is only a 1000cc engine and because of its size it is lighter than a traditional 1.5 or 1.6 ford engine. Thus, the EcoSport wont be front heavy because of this.



3. This engine and also the 1.5 ti-vct in the fiesta have twin independent-variable cam timing (ti-vct). Now why did i mention this. Well this is because we just mistake it for variable valve timing but theres a lot more to this. You see, ti-vct offers variable valve timing on BOTH the intake as well as the exhaust camshafts where as most of the other manufacturers (i wont name them) are offering variable valve timing on ONLY ONE of the two camshafts, mostly the exhaust camshaft.

Last edited by Mustang.101 : 17th January 2012 at 18:49.
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Old 17th January 2012, 19:46   #243
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
I have some news, its not really concrete in the sense that it is not exact but gives you an idea of the launch of the EcoSport.

FIRST THE NEWS - The company is trying very hard and has set a target to release this car during the Diwali time. However, the original target was November end or December 1st week.
Thanks Mustang on sharing this info @ the probable launch & the technical details on the CI engine block. If Ford can really bring in the Ecosport by Diwali this year, then surely we will have some fireworks in the entry SUV/crossover market.

I have searched on the net, but could not get any concrete information on the driveability of the 1.0L Ecoboost engine. How is it possible for this small an engine to give a flat torque right from 1300rpm to well beyond 4000rpm. In the modern day diesels the peak torque is available in a very narrow band (eg Vento it is between 1500rpm to 2500rpm), then how come the Ecoboost manages to produce the peak torque in such a wide rpm band & how does this translate into onroad performance. Also how much FE to be expected from this 1.0L Ecoboost engine? Hope you can shed some light on these queries.
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Old 17th January 2012, 19:54   #244
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Thanks Mustang for the good news. Ford certainly has a good product and should get it to the market at the earliest. By Diwali the Duster and the MiniXylo would have been launched and this gives Ford a good chance to price it correctly. Well they had the same chance to price the NFS when compared to the Verna, City and Vento and we all know what happened. Fingers Crossed!
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Old 17th January 2012, 21:11   #245
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Hi,
Sometime back duties on complete engines/ drivetrains was increased considerably. This means that if the EcoSport is to be a volume generator, the engine has to be locally manufactured. So we will either get the EcoBoost also in the Figo, or the wheezy Figo engine in the EcoBoost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
Secondly, most of the moving components like piston rods, pistons, etc. are made out of cast iron in all all-aluminum engines as these moving components are subject to great heat because of friction and even aluminum alloys can not handle this wear and tear.
Not really.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 17th January 2012, 21:25   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian

Thanks Mustang on sharing this info @ the probable launch & the technical details on the CI engine block. If Ford can really bring in the Ecosport by Diwali this year, then surely we will have some fireworks in the entry SUV/crossover market.

I have searched on the net, but could not get any concrete information on the driveability of the 1.0L Ecoboost engine. How is it possible for this small an engine to give a flat torque right from 1300rpm to well beyond 4000rpm. In the modern day diesels the peak torque is available in a very narrow band (eg Vento it is between 1500rpm to 2500rpm), then how come the Ecoboost manages to produce the peak torque in such a wide rpm band & how does this translate into onroad performance. Also how much FE to be expected from this 1.0L Ecoboost engine? Hope you can shed some light on these queries.
This is possible due to the combination of turbo charging, direct injection and ti-vct.

You wont find any news on the drivability of this engine as this engine has not been put into production as of now.

Expect a REALISTIC fuel efficiency of around 13 in the city on petrol in a car ie. the ecosport that probably weighs more than the fiesta.

Last edited by Mustang.101 : 17th January 2012 at 21:28.
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Old 17th January 2012, 21:32   #247
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
3. This engine and also the 1.5 ti-vct in the fiesta have twin independent-variable cam timing (ti-vct). Now why did i mention this. Well this is because we just mistake it for variable valve timing but theres a lot more to this. You see, ti-vct offers variable valve timing on BOTH the intake as well as the exhaust camshafts where as most of the other manufacturers (i wont name them) are offering variable valve timing on ONLY ONE of the two camshafts, mostly the exhaust camshaft.
The new Toyota Altis has Dual VVT-i which means variable cam on both intake and exhaust side. It's not a new technology to have it on both sides. Toyota has been using Dual VVT-i for a few years now.
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Old 17th January 2012, 22:01   #248
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Originally Posted by Vid6639

The new Toyota Altis has Dual VVT-i which means variable cam on both intake and exhaust side. It's not a new technology to have it on both sides. Toyota has been using Dual VVT-i for a few years now.
Thats why i said most manufacturers in india. I did not say all manufacturers in india. I am going to get into trouble if i name them so just let it be. And i did not say that the technology is new.
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Old 17th January 2012, 22:59   #249
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

I don't get it. Cast-iron blocks are outdated, heavy and not really efficient, I'm of the opinion. And the EcoSport is supposed to be a car that leads from the front, when it comes to being 'Eco' and 'Green'. So why is it that the EcoBoost uses a cast-iron block? There doesn't seem to be anything Eco about it. Something doesn't seem to quite add-up.

I hope Ford doesn't give us out-dated engines.

I remember the Escort and Ikon back then, used to be powered by Rocam and Push-Rod engines. Although effective, they were out-dated. Especially the push-rod mills.

Please correct me if I'm wrong?

P.S. I personally loved the 1.6 Rocam engine in the Ikon. Probably one of the best 'enthusiasts' engines we've had in the past. Right up there with the 16v 100 bhp 1.6 in the Palio.
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Old 17th January 2012, 23:21   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307
I don't get it. Cast-iron blocks are outdated, heavy and not really efficient, I'm of the opinion. And the EcoSport is supposed to be a car that leads from the front, when it comes to being 'Eco' and 'Green'. So why is it that the EcoBoost uses a cast-iron block? There doesn't seem to be anything Eco about it. Something doesn't seem to quite add-up.

I hope Ford doesn't give us out-dated engines.

I remember the Escort and Ikon back then, used to be powered by Rocam and Push-Rod engines. Although effective, they were out-dated. Especially the push-rod mills.

Please correct me if I'm wrong?

P.S. I personally loved the 1.6 Rocam engine in the Ikon. Probably one of the best 'enthusiasts' engines we've had in the past. Right up there with the 16v 100 bhp 1.6 in the Palio.
I had just explained this in great detail (few posts above this) and there is nothing outdated about it. Let me just count the number of petrol engines which are installed in cars costing below 10 lacs which have turbos, direct injection and dual variable valve timing. The answer is none so far.
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Old 18th January 2012, 10:29   #251
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
Expect a REALISTIC fuel efficiency of around 13 in the city on petrol in a car ie. the ecosport that probably weighs more than the fiesta.
That doesn't sound very encouraging. My perception was that a smaller cubic capacity engine, with very good low end torque (we can drive the car in higher gears at very low rpm) all this would result in an FE at least in the range of 18-20 kmpl (in city driving conditions), not withstanding the higher weight. If Ford cannot jack up the FE to the 18-20 range for the Ecosport with Ecoboost (1.0L), then it would be again the same old story of the diesel Ecosport demand far outstripping that of the petrol.
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Old 18th January 2012, 10:44   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian

That doesn't sound very encouraging. My perception was that a smaller cubic capacity engine, with very good low end torque (we can drive the car in higher gears at very low rpm) all this would result in an FE at least in the range of 18-20 kmpl (in city driving conditions), not withstanding the higher weight. If Ford cannot jack up the FE to the 18-20 range for the Ecosport with Ecoboost (1.0L), then it would be again the same old story of the diesel Ecosport demand far outstripping that of the petrol.
Autoindian, i totally understand your perspective but i mentioned realistic fuel efficiency which means with AC always on and in the city.

Also the engine produces a lot of power and torque and the car is also heavier than the fiesta.

I have told you 13, however the ARAI figures will indicate around 18 whenever they are out.
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Old 18th January 2012, 12:16   #253
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
That doesn't sound very encouraging. My perception was that a smaller cubic capacity engine, with very good low end torque (we can drive the car in higher gears at very low rpm) all this would result in an FE at least in the range of 18-20 kmpl (in city driving conditions), not withstanding the higher weight. If Ford cannot jack up the FE to the 18-20 range for the Ecosport with Ecoboost (1.0L), then it would be again the same old story of the diesel Ecosport demand far outstripping that of the petrol.
Generally turbo charged petrol cars run a lower compression ratio as compared to NA cars taking into account the boost provided by the turbo.

e.g.

Honda City : 1497 cc, 116 bhp@6600 rpm, 148 Nm@4800 rpm , 10.4:1
Honda Civic : 1798 cc, 130 bhp@6300 rpm, 17.69kgm@4300rpm, 10.5:1
Linea T-jet : 1368 cc, 113 bhp@5000 rpm, 207 Nm@2200 rpm, 9.8:1

This typically means that for the kind of power they deliver the FE will be a trade off.
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Old 18th January 2012, 12:20   #254
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
That doesn't sound very encouraging. My perception was that a smaller cubic capacity engine, with very good low end torque (we can drive the car in higher gears at very low rpm) all this would result in an FE at least in the range of 18-20 kmpl (in city driving conditions), not withstanding the higher weight. If Ford cannot jack up the FE to the 18-20 range for the Ecosport with Ecoboost (1.0L), then it would be again the same old story of the diesel Ecosport demand far outstripping that of the petrol.
I dont think its possible to get 18-20 kmpl out of a petrol car in city conditions. I don't think there is even a diesel car currently that gives 18-20kmpl in the city. If the ecosport delivers 13 with AC, I would be happy with it.
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Old 18th January 2012, 13:19   #255
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Quote:
Generally turbo charged petrol cars run a lower compression ratio as compared to NA cars taking into account the boost provided by the turbo.

e.g.

Honda City : 1497 cc, 116 bhp@6600 rpm, 148 Nm@4800 rpm , 10.4:1
Honda Civic : 1798 cc, 130 bhp@6300 rpm, 17.69kgm@4300rpm, 10.5:1
Linea T-jet : 1368 cc, 113 bhp@5000 rpm, 207 Nm@2200 rpm, 9.8:1
I want add two points with above comparison.

first I think indivic can shed some light on FE by adding FE figures of above three cars in the comparison so we can have idea of FE of turbocharged petrol engines.

Second I am really happy to see the torque figure of T-jet engine producing high torque comparable to diesel engines and that too at lower RPM's again comparable to diesel engines...

So I guess we get benefits of both worlds with Turbopetrol......high torque starting from lower RPM's of diesel engines and lower weights and maintenance of petrol engines.

The only concern will be if this engine costs as high as diesel engine and in that case it will be better option to go for diesel engine to get advantage of difference in fuel costs!

so till the launch...happy waiting!
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