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Old 18th January 2012, 16:27   #271
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Originally Posted by Vid6639

What do you mean by traction? Where does traction come into picture? If by traction you mean that with an aluminum engine the weight up front will be lesser than the weight with a cast iron block resulting in loss of traction while accelerating; then I don't buy this.

The block material is not the most important factor in the weight at the front.

You also mentioned that the Ecosport will probably be the heaviest in the segment.

The reason for not going for an aluminum block seems simple. The aluminum block although lightweight does not absorb vibrations as well as an iron block. Aluminum blocks are known to be buzzy at high rpm's.

The Ecoboost is a 3cylinder engine which will inherently be non symetric firing sequence. As a result of this 3 cylinder engines have more vibrations due to uneven firing. The cast iron block adds more damping as it's heavier and cast iron being a softer material absorbs some of the vibrations. Aluminum blocks are the way forward but I can understand why Ford chose not to use it as this may have resulted in poor NVH levels.

Also, we have to remember this is a small 1000cc engine putting out some serious BHP. Cast iron will probably do a better job as the engine will be working pretty much at it's limit.

Again my views are very general and just from basic understanding of these materials and internal combustion engines. There may be lots of other factors involved which I have no clue of. Pls. feel free to correct me if I am way off.
You are correct. I am just telling you what i have heard. Vibration issue was also there. But the main issue working in its favor was the robustness, durability and faster war up ability of cast iron.

But you were wrong on one occasion when you said cast iron is softer than aluminum. Aluminum is much much softer than cast iron.

There is a minimum weight upfront that is necessary so that the car does not get unsettled when turning really fast or due to braking while turning and the cast iron block helps us achieve that in the front.
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Old 18th January 2012, 16:35   #272
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
What do you mean by traction?...

...There may be lots of other factors involved which I have no clue of. Pls. feel free to correct me if I am way off.
You see, this is the answer I was looking for! Thank you for that Viddy!

3-pot motors are known to be a lot less refined than 4-pot mills. It's a fact. The A-Star, the 800, the Eon and the VAG cousins (Polo and Fabia) are all powered by small 3-pot lumps, and I've driven all of them. Lower RPMs and speeds in such cars are fine, but when give it the beans, you can feel the lack of refinement in them. Now I'm not sure what the engine-block is made of. In the K10, I'm sure it's aluminium. But what about the VAG cars?

While the K10 loses steam by the time you get it beyond 80-100, the Fabia & Polo feel very strained, especially when driven over steep-inclines in higher gears. Also, the characteristic rattle of a 3-potter completely puts me off. The EcoSport shouldn't suffer from the lack of power, because of the turbo. But will it rattle like the other cars with 3-pot mills?

Viddy has answered this somewhat. The cast0iron block will help absorb the vibrations better than an aluminium-block. But aren't the VAG cars' 3-cylinder engines also equipped with iron-blocks? Assuming the same, the cars still don't meet satisfactory NVH levels.

The EcoSport is 'supposed' to have 4x4, right? Ford will probably not introduce that in the Indian market. But the same engine will be doing duty in all EcoSports across the globe. So what does cast-iron blocks have to do with front-end traction, when the other EcoSports put the power down via all four wheels?
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Old 18th January 2012, 16:39   #273
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Originally Posted by suhaas307

The EcoSport is 'supposed' to have 4x4, right? Ford will probably not introduce that in the Indian market. But the same engine will be doing duty in all EcoSports across the globe. So what does cast-iron blocks have to do with front-end traction, when the other EcoSports put the power down via all four wheels?
This ecosport will be a FWD only. And to counter these vibrations at high rpms, we have used an unbalanced flywheel instead of the traditional counter balance shafts.

Last edited by Mustang.101 : 18th January 2012 at 16:46.
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Old 18th January 2012, 16:57   #274
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
But you were wrong on one occasion when you said cast iron is softer than aluminum. Aluminum is much much softer than cast iron.
Perhaps my choice of words was not great. When I said cast iron is soft I meant stronger but more absorbent.

I'll give a simple example related to cars. Normal steel wheels vs alloy wheels. Alloy wheels are lightweight and supposedly stronger but on a hard impact they crack. Whereas a steel wheel will not crack it will bend and get deformed but not crack. It will absorb the impact and not just fail due to stress.
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Old 18th January 2012, 17:01   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639

Perhaps my choice of words was not great. When I said cast iron is soft I meant stronger but more absorbent.

I'll give a simple example related to cars. Normal steel wheels vs alloy wheels. Alloy wheels are lightweight and supposedly stronger but on a hard impact they crack. Whereas a steel wheel will not crack it will bend and get deformed but not crack. It will absorb the impact and not just fail due to stress.
I will have to again correct you vids. Steel and cast iron are very different. Steel is an alloy, it is also ductile. Thus steel wheels bend on high impact like you said.

Cast iron(made in casts) is iron in its purest form. It is not an alloy. It is brittle and if wheels were made out of it, they would also crack or break under high impact in similar fashion to aluminum alloy wheels. But yes, not as frequently as cast iron is stronger than aluminum.

Ask the female members in your house, what might happen if they drop a cast iron pan on the floor.

Last edited by Mustang.101 : 18th January 2012 at 17:09.
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Old 18th January 2012, 17:04   #276
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Will the Ecoboost engine support such a high power density (120 bhp/litre) on Indian fuel?
The reason I ask is that all manufacturers detune their engines when they bring cars here, citing fuel quality as the primary reason.
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Old 18th January 2012, 17:07   #277
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Originally Posted by amitg79
Will the Ecoboost engine support such a high power density (120 bhp/litre) on Indian fuel?
The reason I ask is that all manufacturers detune their engines when they bring cars here, citing fuel quality as the primary reason.
You WILL get 120 PS of Power.
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Old 18th January 2012, 21:31   #278
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Hi,
The CI/ Al issue has cropped up before. If I may quote myself
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ml#post1742114 (Mahindra Thar revealed at Autoexpo 2010)
and
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post2573635 (Tata working on all-aluminium car engine)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post2573960 (Tata working on all-aluminium car engine)

For me, lots of questions about the EcoBoost engine. Choice of block material is not one of them.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 19th January 2012, 11:32   #279
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by shivasuma View Post
I dont think its possible to get 18-20 kmpl out of a petrol car in city conditions. I don't think there is even a diesel car currently that gives 18-20kmpl in the city. If the ecosport delivers 13 with AC, I would be happy with it.
I would like to correct you on the second part of the statement above. My humble 8 year old Indica diesel (which has run 105K + kms) has an overall kmpl figure of 18.46, the last 4 tankfulls have been hovering around 19-20kmpl. Of course one's driving style, traffic conditions, maintenance of the car plays a vital role in extracting such FE figures. My simple wish is that he 1.0L Ecoboost should be able to match up the FE figures of its 1.5TDCi counterpart, else it won't make any sense going for the Ecoboost (given that it is priced at par with the 1.5TDCi variant of the Ecosport)
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Old 19th January 2012, 16:24   #280
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

The cast iron engine block not only saves cost but also reduces engine warmup time by 50 percent. The engine features a split cooling system that allows the cylinder block to warm up before the cylinder head. The cast iron block however, seems only limited to the 1.0L Ecoboost engine. Other variants like 1.6L and 2.0L will be made of die cast aluminium alloy.

Check this out: Ford produces the smallest motor in its history - three cylinder 1.0-Liter EcoBoost
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Old 19th January 2012, 21:12   #281
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by MandarMax View Post
The cast iron block however, seems only limited to the 1.0L Ecoboost engine. Other variants like 1.6L and 2.0L will be made of die cast aluminium alloy.
Might have the EcoBoost label, but are not variants of the I3.

Check this out: Ford produces the smallest motor in its history - three cylinder 1.0-Liter EcoBoost
More information is available on Fords own site. Most of the other sites just quote/ paraphrase Fords publicity material. Expected because the engine has not yet hit the market.

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Old 21st January 2012, 18:36   #282
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Ford ecosport is going to be displayed at 2 mumbai malls.

1. Infinity mall in malad
2. Inorbit mall in vashi
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Old 21st January 2012, 18:54   #283
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Good to know that & thanks for sharing. However is it going to be just a display & not "feel" as the Fiesta earlier? They should at least give a chance to view the car from inside. I am very sceptical about the interiors & want to know what's in store for the Ecosport.

Last edited by AutoIndian : 21st January 2012 at 18:55.
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Old 21st January 2012, 19:07   #284
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Good to know that & thanks for sharing. However is it going to be just a display & not "feel" as the Fiesta earlier? They should at least give a chance to view the car from inside. I am very sceptical about the interiors & want to know what's in store for the Ecosport.
It will just be a display. The car will be locked and the windows will be darkened. You can just basically see the car exteriors up close.
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Old 21st January 2012, 19:07   #285
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Default re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
Ford ecosport is going to be displayed at 2 mumbai malls.

1. Infinity mall in malad
2. Inorbit mall in vashi
Thanks Mustang! Any idea on when that's going to be happening? Even tentatively?
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