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Old 29th June 2012, 13:41   #961
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Its nothing personal my friend. I am not even looking at this small suv segment, thanks I am happy with a full size suv and a hatch which I possess.

My take on the ecosport was, if Ford wants to sell its new car well, then it should price it right. This was because lot of forum members were saying since the ecoboost is new technology its right to price it at a premium. There might be a miniscule number of enthusiasts who understand are are ready to pay for better technology. unfortunately these people would not be enough numbers to make a success for ford. End of the day the ecosport has to compete with the I20, jazz, Bolero, Ertiga and the likes in the same market space. So having 5 seats a hatchback footprint and a big suv price may not click.
Now, that's more objective. Here is my PoV.

1) Ford CAN afford to price it a bit higher than usual, simply because, there is no competition. Rio is crap. Duster is unexciting. Scorpio and Safari are too Indian. Ertiga is a MUV. i20, Jazz etc are hatchbacks, not even crossovers.

2) Now, here is why Ford NEEDS to charge a premium. Because they have to recover the costs that went into R&D. It is not that they bolted 10 turbochargers into an existing engine and made this. They invested in R&D, and it has to be recovered.

3) And why they SHOULD charge a premium. Why should any company develop an engine (however low the R&D costs might be), that gives phenomenal fuel efficiency, and sell it at the same price as a less-efficient engine? They would ask the buyers for a share of the money saved. This is an incentive that make companies invest in R&D.

I do think that this engine is truly revolutionary. Else, there would have been at least a couple of other car makers selling similar engines.

ps: I am waiting for this car. And I will buy one even if it is a bit expensive. And I hope I could find a variant between the 10-12L range. But I would not "advice" Ford (or any company) about how they should price their cars.
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Old 29th June 2012, 14:00   #962
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

While what civic-sense has said makes sense, it does not always work in that way. These companies have to be innovative to remain in business. The vast majority of car buying Indians are very price conscious. So if I have to pay a little extra, I would not mind. But if I have to pay a hefty premium without much return on investment in terms of fuel efficiency (not favorable for a person with very low annual mileage) and good looks etc. I would think twice or thrice. See what bad pricing has done to their new Fiesta including the new Fiesta automatic which has some of the best features in that category. A really beautiful vehicle with great mileage will definitely absorb a portion of the premium pricing but not all if priced too high. I guess Ford will have to tread very cautiously here.
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Old 29th June 2012, 14:07   #963
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post

2) Now, here is why Ford NEEDS to charge a premium. Because they have to recover the costs that went into R&D. It is not that they bolted 10 turbochargers into an existing engine and made this. They invested in R&D, and it has to be recovered.

3) And why they SHOULD charge a premium. Why should any company develop an engine (however low the R&D costs might be), that gives phenomenal fuel efficiency, and sell it at the same price as a less-efficient engine? They would ask the buyers for a share of the money saved. This is an incentive that make companies invest in R&D.
If this is a revolutionary engine, which it may be, I suppose this would be used in many more ford cars in the future? Also Ford would then look at bringing various derivatives of this very same engine to power different models. R & D requires money, sure, but Ford cannot recover the cost by charging an unusual premium for one car alone. And any new engine that a manufacturer invests on will be on the basis that it can power a lot of cars in their line up. And that is how they would need to recover R & D costs.
That said, "premium" is very subjective, since this is a complete new segment we are talking about here. If the eco sport petrol is say 50-80k more than the top end i20 or Polo, then it doesnt sound so bad to me. H.ever, if the 1.0L ecosport is more than a petrol Rapid / Vento, then it's really a "premium" pricing strategy, which may not work considering you have a lot of diesel sedans in this 10-12 lakh category. Diesel eco sport at 10-12 lakhs, no issues, you will have enough c2 segment buyers looking at this as an alternative.
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Old 29th June 2012, 14:11   #964
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Hmmm. I really don't want to get into the does ecoBoost command a premium pricing debate but there is no ignoring the fact that the engine is remarkable and will be the future of petrol engines worldwide. I mean could you even imagine a 1L engine powering a mini-SUV 2 years ago? Even the old 1.1l engine in a Wagon-R was sluggish (at 100+ and on a slope).

Even if I don't buy the ecoBoost I will definetly TD the car just for the sake of satisfying my curiosity. Still diesel is my preference due to my usage requirements.

But since the diesel engine is not new, maybe the diesel variants will be priced reasonably. :-)
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Old 29th June 2012, 14:38   #965
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by motorworks View Post
That said, "premium" is very subjective, since this is a complete new segment we are talking about here. If the eco sport petrol is say 50-80k more than the top end i20 or Polo, then it doesnt sound so bad to me. H.ever, if the 1.0L ecosport is more than a petrol Rapid / Vento, then it's really a "premium" pricing strategy, which may not work considering you have a lot of diesel sedans in this 10-12 lakh category. Diesel eco sport at 10-12 lakhs, no issues, you will have enough c2 segment buyers looking at this as an alternative.
OK. Now that we have some agreement about the "revolutionary" nature of the engine, lets play the "price guessing game". Comparing metal to metal, the ecosport is heavier than the i20 and polo. Based on this site (http://www.automobile-catalog.com/ma..._iii/2012.html), the ecosport is 1.2 tonne in weight, which takes it to the Civic and Altis territory. No way it can be compared to the 1 tonne i20 and Polo. Even if that site is wrong, assuming a middle path, it should be at least 1.1 tonne. Now where are we? Yeah, right in the middle of the Vento/Rapid/Fiesta/City. Except that the ecosport does not have a box sticking onto its rear. So, is there any reason why they should not price it lower than it's own Fiesta? Yes, of course, you have the excise savings. So, 50-60K off. Anything else?

Last edited by civic-sense : 29th June 2012 at 14:40.
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Old 29th June 2012, 15:01   #966
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Ford having suffered losses recently because of Europe and Asia Pacific, not sure how they will price the vehicle.
I wonder how much bigger inside is this compared to old Ford Fusion.

Last edited by srishiva : 29th June 2012 at 15:03.
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Old 29th June 2012, 17:26   #967
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
OK. Now that we have some agreement about the "revolutionary" nature of the engine, lets play the "price guessing game". Comparing metal to metal, the ecosport is heavier than the i20 and polo. Based on this site (2012 Ford (Brazil) Ecosport phase III specs, performance, photo & data), the ecosport is 1.2 tonne in weight, which takes it to the Civic and Altis territory. No way it can be compared to the 1 tonne i20 and Polo. Even if that site is wrong, assuming a middle path, it should be at least 1.1 tonne. Now where are we? Yeah, right in the middle of the Vento/Rapid/Fiesta/City. Except that the ecosport does not have a box sticking onto its rear. So, is there any reason why they should not price it lower than it's own Fiesta? Yes, of course, you have the excise savings. So, 50-60K off. Anything else?
Nothing else really, I have stated that if the pricing of the ecosport is at par with the c2 sedans {vento / Rapid}, then it should not be an issue and would actually join the duster in creating a new segment. The duster and the ecosport are quite different, but at the moment these are the only two which SUV-like cars which will be pitted against the c2 sedans. My only point was that ford cannot and should not look at a premium pricing strategy on the merit of the 1.0L ecoboost engine alone since the 1.5 tdci is going to do bulk of the volumes, purely based on the fuel pricing mechanism in India. The 1.0L engine can at best be a "poster boy" of the ecosport and nothing more. The reason you see a lot of emphasis on this engine {other than it's so called revolutionary nature} is because it's a global product and other countries where it is set to launch may not have such a gross difference between petrol and diesel.
Yes, if there is some additional excise on the diesel cars in India, then this scenario could change.
I'm also inclined to believe that ford would not make another blunder in terms of pricing, having made the new fiesta a market dud.
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Old 29th June 2012, 20:06   #968
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorworks View Post
Nothing else really, I have stated that if the pricing of the ecosport is at par with the c2 sedans {vento / Rapid}, then it should not be an issue and would actually join the duster in creating a new segment. The duster and the ecosport are quite different, but at the moment these are the only two which SUV-like cars which will be pitted against the c2 sedans. My only point was that ford cannot and should not look at a premium pricing strategy on the merit of the 1.0L ecoboost engine alone since the 1.5 tdci is going to do bulk of the volumes, purely based on the fuel pricing mechanism in India. The 1.0L engine can at best be a "poster boy" of the ecosport and nothing more. The reason you see a lot of emphasis on this engine {other than it's so called revolutionary nature} is because it's a global product and other countries where it is set to launch may not have such a gross difference between petrol and diesel.
Yes, if there is some additional excise on the diesel cars in India, then this scenario could change.
I'm also inclined to believe that ford would not make another blunder in terms of pricing, having made the new fiesta a market dud.
We are in agreement here. Except that I think that they will price it slightly higher than the Vento, although it might not touch the Fiesta price levels. And you can be sure that the 1L petrol would be priced at least 50K-1L below the 1.5 diesel. Else, the petrol won't sell.

However, what I resent is the attempt to compare the Ecosport with hatchbacks and professing that any price above the hatchback levels is atrocious.

Last edited by civic-sense : 29th June 2012 at 20:07.
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Old 29th June 2012, 20:30   #969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense
Yes, of course, you have the excise savings. So, 50-60K off. Anything else?
Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense
And you can be sure that the 1L petrol would be priced at least 1L below the 1.5 diesel. Else, it won't sell.
Why the abrasive comments? You want to put your point across, and so does everyone else. And using your own logic from above, a 12% saving at 10L is over a lakh off. Ford NEEDS to price the Ecosport competitively because, and I quote you, "Else, it won't sell."

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense
However, what I resent is the attempt to compare the Ecosport with hatchbacks and professing that any price above the hatchback levels is atrocious.
Really don't see the need to get all resentful about it. Is Ford where you work? If not, then this is just a guessing game and we are all guessing too. I agree with the opinion that Ford should price the Ecosport at a slight premium over the i20 for it to truly shake up the market. All those who have seen it say that it is like a hatch on stilts; a Fusion with a butch face. The revolutionary engine will fall flat and Ford will never recover its development cost if the vehicle doesn't sell. In the end, it depends on Ford because even today they are quite happy with the number of new Fiestas sold per month.

Last edited by VeluM : 29th June 2012 at 20:35.
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Old 29th June 2012, 20:35   #970
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Got some very good (detailed) interior pictures & exterior pictures in varied colours on this brazilian website. There are about 100 pictures over there. Sharing below the best of the lot. (Thanks to the Gear Heads thread on Ecosport from where I got this link). Enjoy the Ecosport

Conhecemos o Novo Ford EcoSport: Mais de 100 fotos HD do visual e acabamento interno | CARPLACE - Portal do Automóvel

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Old 29th June 2012, 21:02   #971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian
Got some very good (detailed) interior pictures & exterior pictures in varied colours on this brazilian website. There are about 100 pictures over there. Sharing below the best of the lot. (Thanks to the Gear Heads thread on Ecosport from where I got this link). Enjoy the Ecosport

Conhecemos o Novo Ford EcoSport: Mais de 100 fotos HD do visual e acabamento interno | CARPLACE - Portal do Automóvel
Nice! Very buy-able indeed! Woo hoo! Would love to see this hit the road quick. It looks so much better finished than the Duster!
Thank you for sharing!
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Old 29th June 2012, 22:13   #972
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Got some very good (detailed) interior pictures & exterior pictures in varied colours on this brazilian website. There are about 100 pictures over there.

Conhecemos o Novo Ford EcoSport: Mais de 100 fotos HD do visual e acabamento interno | CARPLACE - Portal do Automóvel
Excellent high quality pictures covering almost all the angles of the car. Thanks for sharing!

By the way, the fit and finish, both interior and exterior look much better than the Duster. Cant wait to see this launched. Hope the the quality/features/safety equipment are all maintained as is in the Indian versions too.
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Old 29th June 2012, 23:08   #973
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Got some very good (detailed) interior pictures & exterior pictures in varied colours on this brazilian website. There are about 100 pictures over there. Sharing below the best of the lot. (Thanks to the Gear Heads thread on Ecosport from where I got this link). Enjoy the Ecosport
Lovely pics. Car looks real cool. However the engine seems to be a 2-litre one---not sure if it is diesel or petrol though.
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Old 29th June 2012, 23:59   #974
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Lovely pics. Car looks real cool. However the engine seems to be a 2-litre one---not sure if it is diesel or petrol though.
The pictures are from Brazil and the 2.0 Litre engine of Ecosport runs on Ethanol.
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Old 30th June 2012, 04:02   #975
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Ford considers Brazil and Mexico very similar to India, but still the vehicles that go there or are made there seem so much better.
Are we actually less discerning as a purchasing public than those boys?
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