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Old 30th June 2012, 09:38   #976
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Ford considers Brazil and Mexico very similar to India, but still the vehicles that go there or are made there seem so much better.
Are we actually less discerning as a purchasing public than those boys?
Good point. I think this applies to all international car makers selling cars in India. Why do they downgrade their cars when they sell those in India?

Take for instance the glove box light and distance to empty features missing in the Indian i-20. Or the downgraded New Fiesta in India. There are scores of such examples across manufacturers.

We, as an emerging car market, deserve better.
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Old 30th June 2012, 09:53   #977
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
We are in agreement here. Except that I think that they will price it slightly higher than the Vento, although it might not touch the Fiesta price levels. And you can be sure that the 1L petrol would be priced at least 50K-1L below the 1.5 diesel. Else, the petrol won't sell.

However, what I resent is the attempt to compare the Ecosport with hatchbacks and professing that any price above the hatchback levels is atrocious.
I dont know what is your issue in being so aggressive? Are you a ford employee?

Anyways Ecosport is what 4meters in length overall? Should it be compared to the A4 or what? This whole discussion is going OT.. I am out of it... I would be happy if Ford prices this competitively and it sells well.... cheers
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Old 30th June 2012, 13:31   #978
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Now i feel elated that i added one more car manufacturer to my kitty of employers. Earlier, i had been accused of working for Fiat and then for Honda. Keep it coming. Anyway, the advice from this "ford employee" is, keep your expectations low. This might be a car that you want to own. But may not be one you could afford. When is Merc launching the B class, btw?
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Old 30th June 2012, 13:37   #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense
Now i feel elated that i added one more car manufacturer to my kitty of employers. Earlier, i had been accused of working for Fiat and then for Honda. Keep it coming. Anyway, the advice from this "ford employee" is, keep your expectations low. This might be a car that you want to own. But may not be one you could afford. When is Merc launching the B class, btw?
The B class is likely to be very expensive. I am guessing at least 15 lacs per annum.

Why are people making accusations against you, i still can not understand. You have never been aggressive or whatever.

As far as the ecosport goes, i think it will be a little bit more expensive than the most expensive hatchback, so it will fill in nicely between the hatchbacks and the sedans. Basically within the 7-9 lacs ex showroom category hopefully.
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Old 30th June 2012, 22:01   #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian
Got some very good (detailed) interior pictures & exterior pictures in varied colours on this brazilian website.
Looks like Ecosport loses the boot space war. Not that it is small, but it seems to have some protrusions and the rear seat back is quite inclined. Quite like the interiors and kit provided. The tyre profile is noticeably lower than that of the Duster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense
But I would not "advice" Ford (or any company) about how they should price their cars.
Nor could you. You might be able to "advise" them. They might even listen to your "advice".
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Old 1st July 2012, 08:20   #981
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

I quite like what I see with the Eco-Sport and sincerely hope the kit and quality is very close to what Ford is offering in the Int'l market even if that means pricing it a bit higher than what the market is expecting. Seriously, I am frustrated with their cut-price offering the Figo where I am facing some or the other niggling issue ( engine oil seal replaced, power steering fluid pump replaced, brake fade, poor build etc).

All in all, I don't mind paying a higher price for a vehicle which is engineered and built well at the expense of kit rather than buying a tin can with cheap, unreliable electronic-show-offs just to entice the mass.
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Old 1st July 2012, 10:23   #982
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Without wanting to offend anyone partcipating in this thread, i think the discussion has outlived its usefulness until Ford launches the SUV or invites automags/-bhp for review. Right now, this is like the storme discussion early in the year. Please feel free to bash me for this, but pages are filling up with little value added.

Mods - my humble suggestion, lock the thread until Ford announces dates or more details emerge
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Old 1st July 2012, 15:20   #983
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by octane_100 View Post
I quite like what I see with the Eco-Sport and sincerely hope the kit and quality is very close to what Ford is offering in the Int'l market even if that means pricing it a bit higher than what the market is expecting. Seriously, I am frustrated with their cut-price offering the Figo where I am facing some or the other niggling issue ( engine oil seal replaced, power steering fluid pump replaced, brake fade, poor build etc).

All in all, I don't mind paying a higher price for a vehicle which is engineered and built well at the expense of kit rather than buying a tin can with cheap, unreliable electronic-show-offs just to entice the mass.
I would be inclined to agree with you, but ours is a price-sensitive market at the lower end of the spectrum especially, and given that the EcoSport is petrol only, that makes pricing it aggressively (read as low as possible) even more imperative. The car will be fuel-efficient by all accounts, and that coupled with being the first true Urban Compact SUV will really see the Eco-Sport work for Ford if they price it right. To do so, I fear they will compromise on quality in some places. Let's just hope it's not too apparent.
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Old 1st July 2012, 19:09   #984
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Now, that's more objective. Here is my PoV.

1) Ford CAN afford to price it a bit higher than usual, simply because, there is no competition. Rio is crap. Duster is unexciting. Scorpio and Safari are too Indian. Ertiga is a MUV. i20, Jazz etc are hatchbacks, not even crossovers.

2) Now, here is why Ford NEEDS to charge a premium. Because they have to recover the costs that went into R&D. It is not that they bolted 10 turbochargers into an existing engine and made this. They invested in R&D, and it has to be recovered.

3) And why they SHOULD charge a premium. Why should any company develop an engine (however low the R&D costs might be), that gives phenomenal fuel efficiency, and sell it at the same price as a less-efficient engine? They would ask the buyers for a share of the money saved. This is an incentive that make companies invest in R&D.

I do think that this engine is truly revolutionary. Else, there would have been at least a couple of other car makers selling similar engines.

ps: I am waiting for this car. And I will buy one even if it is a bit expensive. And I hope I could find a variant between the 10-12L range. But I would not "advice" Ford (or any company) about how they should price their cars.

Read the points proferred by you. However, the following things would go against the Ecosport, were it to be priced ata premium:

1) It is a petrol.
2) An ordinary joe would find the engine too small (despite the technology, power and torque figures)
3) the high technology would be interpreted as an expensive to maintain/over sensitive engine that is not suitable to oor fuel quality. Ford does not really have a reputation as be a low maintenance cost manufacturer.
4) It is small and does not have the road presence of a SUV.

Some of these reasons went against the Skoda Yeti even though it is a pretty competent vehicle. I would like to sum it up by repeating verbatim wht my wife had to say about the Yeti " it is slightly bigger then the Figo. Why should anybody pay 13-16 lakh for such a car??"

I really like this car, but I do not think that I will pay too high a premium for it.
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Old 1st July 2012, 20:09   #985
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by octane_100 View Post
Seriously, I am frustrated with their cut-price offering the Figo where I am facing some or the other niggling issue ( engine oil seal replaced, power steering fluid pump replaced, brake fade, poor build etc).

All in all, I don't mind paying a higher price for a vehicle which is engineered and built well at the expense of kit rather than buying a tin can with cheap, unreliable electronic-show-offs just to entice the mass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iliketurtles View Post
I would be inclined to agree with you, but ours is a price-sensitive market at the lower end of the spectrum especially, and given that the EcoSport is petrol only, that makes pricing it aggressively (read as low as possible) even more imperative. The car will be fuel-efficient by all accounts, and that coupled with being the first true Urban Compact SUV will really see the Eco-Sport work for Ford if they price it right. To do so, I fear they will compromise on quality in some places. Let's just hope it's not too apparent.
VFM! We all love that, don't we? And we don't care, even if the VFM tag is taken to such insane levels where the product starts bordering on mediocrity. Look at what Fiat did to the Punto and Linea. Why do we expect every manufacturer to provide VFM products? Why shouldn't somebody go against the tide and provide a well engineered product albeit at a premium? There are enough VFM cars out there. The Maruti and TATA stables is full of that. I think we still have a market for quality products, The i20 and City are examples of that.

For those who may not be able to afford the Ecosport, they would have the Duster to fall back to. BTW, is Maruti still planning to bring the Jimny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
I would like to sum it up by repeating verbatim wht my wife had to say about the Yeti " it is slightly bigger then the Figo. Why should anybody pay 13-16 lakh for such a car??"
That comment should find place in this thread (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/85633-quirky-logic-funny-comments-non-petrol-head-friends.html) and is out of place in a discussion like this.

Last edited by civic-sense : 1st July 2012 at 20:27.
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Old 1st July 2012, 20:16   #986
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
VFM! We all love that, don't we? And we don't care, even if the VFM tag is taken to such insane levels where the product borders on mediocrity. Look at what Fiat did to the Punto and Linea. Why should every manufacturer provide mediocre products? Why shouldn't somebody go against the tide and provide a well engineered product albeit at a premium? There are enough VFM cars out there. The Maruti and TATA stables is full of that. I think we still have a market for quality products, The i20 and City are examples of that.

For those who may not be able to afford the Ecosport, they would have the Duster to fall back to.
You are absolutely right in stating that a high quality product, even if priced at a premium, should be the first priority for a company since we have plenty cars that will cater to someone looking for something, anything on four wheels. But one simply cannot ignore market sentiments. Petrol cars owners and its manufacturing is simply taking a pounding in this current market environment, and when a majority of customers simply look at the price tag and then wonder "kitna deti hai", you cannot help but do as the Romans do. Ford has to play it smart. They will bleed badly if they go in all guns blazing with the Eco-Sport and overprice it while keeping the quality of the highest level. A niche audience, such as us, would appreciate and laud such an effort. But it won't get the cash registers ringing.

And yes, those that want a lesser car (IF the Eco-Sport is built to world-class standards) would turn to the Duster, but a majority of people would turn to the Duster not because it offers a cheaper alternative (which it very well might, mind you), but simply because it will offer a diesel alternative. That is the cold, harsh reality of the situation.
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Old 1st July 2012, 20:27   #987
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
VFM! We all love that, don't we? And we don't care, even if the VFM tag is taken to such insane levels where the product starts bordering on mediocrity. Look at what Fiat did to the Punto and Linea. Why do we expect every manufacturer to provide VFM products? Why shouldn't somebody go against the tide and provide a well engineered product albeit at a premium? There are enough VFM cars out there. The Maruti and TATA stables is full of that. I think we still have a market for quality products, The i20 and City are examples of that.

For those who may not be able to afford the Ecosport, they would have the Duster to fall back to. BTW, is Maruti still planning to bring the Jimny?

A lot of manufacturers have tried selling niche products at a premium and have failed. The FOrd Fusion, the Fabia (before it was relaunched), the polo 1.6, the Palio 1.6 etc.

Can Ford India afford another dud after the Fiesta bombed. The Fiesta has a lot going for it, but the stupid pricing along with poor packaging has virtually killed a very capable car. As a person who was looking forward to a fun to drive car, I was sorely disappointed.

A premium marque may get away with higher, premium pricing. In India, Ford is not perceived to be a premium brand.
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Old 1st July 2012, 20:28   #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iliketurtles
... a majority of people would turn to the Duster not because it offers a cheaper alternative (which it very well might, mind you), but simply because it will offer a diesel alternative. ...
Not sure if you are aware of this, because your post seems to suggest otherwise, but the Ecosport will also be offered with a diesel engine.
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Old 1st July 2012, 22:49   #989
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Lets take a long look back over the last 7 to 8 years and just view for a moment how we have all changed in terms of priorities, experiences, exposure, need states, want states, demand states etc.

The Indian car market is certainly maturing very quickly and I do believe that a sea change seems to have happened these last 3 years or so, in particular, with things like safety etc becoming a greater priority than ever before. The incidences of larger numbers of desk bound executives taking enthusiastically to the road on long weekends and holidays are certainly much higher than before. This is borne out by the sheer traffic on the highways on such weekends. No longer is the road trip the preserve of the 'elite' on account of excellent disposable incomes being available to many more people than before.

In a scenario like this, I do believe that while the innate Indian DNA hard coded with pricing and value are very much there, there are other things which are also beginning to play a greater role in the decision making process - notably safety and other essential features of convenience. The 'Kitna Deti Hai' will always remain with us, but the fact is that alongside will also come greater discernment based on greater knowledge and a constantly evolving need and want state..

Even niche cars like the Fabia, Yeti etc are slowly seeing a bit of traction, with a larger number of people who had earlier debunked and pooh-pooh-ed it, actually taking time to reconsider its advantages now.

Hence, I can visualize Ford pricing their vehicle well but not necessarily cheaply. And now that Dusters cards are out on the table, Ford may well pop up and trump them with essential safety etc across all variants but at a price. Duster in my opinion has made one mistake - that of not offering safety kit across at least two of its different trim variants in Diesel and Petrol. At least the top two in each avatar should have had these features, especially considering that it is probably the least expensive SUC in the world and yet, in its Inernatnal avatar, offers this kit. The impression that most thinking Indians will receive is that Renault has deliberately short changed us Indians because the are taking us for granted. And this is seriously bad show!

I would say that the Scorpio, Safari, Sumo Grande, Bolero, Tavera, Force, Rio etc had better buck up and get their acts together rather quickly if they want to remain relevant. The pace at which things are proceeding nowadays calls for greater adaptability and speed of adoption on the part of these traditional manufacturers here.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 1st July 2012 at 22:51.
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Old 2nd July 2012, 10:52   #990
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Default Re: Ford EcoSport Preview @ Auto Expo 2012. EDIT : Indian Spy Pics on Pg. 33

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Originally Posted by VeluM View Post
Not sure if you are aware of this, because your post seems to suggest otherwise, but the Ecosport will also be offered with a diesel engine.
Really? I could swear I read everywhere that it's just the 1.0 EcoBoost engine that will come here?

You learn something new everyday. Thanks!
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