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Old 23rd February 2012, 13:39   #436
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by throttleking View Post
tsk i dont think Safari is a Premium car, in 8.5 lacs on road you get premium hatchbacks. Safari costs you that much for the size and not for the quality. And hence such issues.
what about the Aria. It was launched at 15 Lakhs. And you should see the ownership experiences of people who bought this.
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Old 23rd February 2012, 13:45   #437
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
what about the Aria. It was launched at 15 Lakhs. And you should see the ownership experiences of people who bought this.
Aria I agree, quality is not top notch, and the price is too much. It is obvious to me that Aria is not making numbers. Aria is clear example of how it was positioned as premium car, but does not live upto bare minimum expectation in terms of quality.

But Safari is a different case. After owning it i realized that how much you get in 8.5L. Live with few niggles and this is really value for money vehicle by Tata.
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Old 23rd February 2012, 13:53   #438
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by throttleking View Post
But Safari is a different case. After owning it i realized that how much you get in 8.5L. Live with few niggles and this is really value for money vehicle by Tata.
Agree with you and after owning Safari for last 1.25 years not having problem. Some small problems sometime we need to neglect otherwise we will make our life miserable. Let's not go gaga over internet writing all such of things regarding small issues. That is the easiest thing one can do and earn miles from fellows.

People think even they drive hard their cars to all sort of roads and it should not crop up problems.
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Old 23rd February 2012, 15:45   #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
what about the Aria. It was launched at 15 Lakhs. And you should see the ownership experiences of people who bought this.
There are people on our forum who have bought cars from Mercedes and like, and they still have issues with their cars.

I think every car must be evaluated with an open mind (no brand prejudices) - whether the car is good for the money paid and whether the *** provides satisfactory service.

There are owners who are far more satisfied with their Indicas or 800s than someone who bought an expensive car.

Its all about what we expect from a car and whether the car delivers to our expectation.

Buying a car, for me, is like falling in love.. The girl may have a lot of shortcomings, but if I love her, I wont notice
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Old 23rd February 2012, 15:57   #440
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

Hi, with the Storm cometh, it seems like discounts may rain on the existing Safari 2.2. I have heard EX 4x2 being available for 9.5 on road Gurgaon. Is it true? Any news on this front?

All said and done I am itching to get my hands on a Safari and I think March will be apt to get maximum value for money. Please guide.

Thanks
Anand

BTW: 4x4 is now only available in VX?
Models 4 X 2 4 X 4
Safari DICOR 2.2 LX BS 3 Rs. 794,330 N.A.
Safari DICOR 2.2 LX BS 4 Rs. 806,392 N.A.
Safari DICOR 2.2 EX BS 3 Rs. 959,564 N.A.
Safari DICOR 2.2 EX BS 4 Rs. 972,065 N.A.
Safari DICOR 2.2 GX BS 3 Rs. 1,040,172 N.A.
Safari DICOR 2.2 GX BS 4 Rs. 1,081,665 N.A.
Safari DICOR 2.2 VX BS 3 Rs. 1,141,087 N.A.
Safari DICOR 2.2 VX BS 4 Rs. 1,192,597 Rs. 1,284,688

Last edited by adtalwar : 23rd February 2012 at 16:07. Reason: Additional query
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Old 23rd February 2012, 15:59   #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by throttleking View Post
Aria I agree, quality is not top notch, and the price is too much. It is obvious to me that Aria is not making numbers. Aria is clear example of how it was positioned as premium car, but does not live upto bare minimum expectation in terms of quality.

But Safari is a different case. After owning it i realized that how much you get in 8.5L. Live with few niggles and this is really value for money vehicle by Tata.
8.5L is a lot of money. And 4x4 version costs upward of 10L

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Agree with you and after owning Safari for last 1.25 years not having problem. Some small problems sometime we need to neglect otherwise we will make our life miserable. Let's not go gaga over internet writing all such of things regarding small issues. That is the easiest thing one can do and earn miles from fellows.

People think even they drive hard their cars to all sort of roads and it should not crop up problems.
Its a SUV, and also comes with a 4x4 option. If it cannot be driven on bad roads, then whats the point.

Just because there does not exist any sub 12L 4x4 in India which is reliable, does not mean such a reliable 4x4 cannot be made.

Secondly, we are talking about tata going premium, and the original question was "People have prejudice thats why they do not buy Tata premium offerings like Aria".
My answer still remains the same. Tata showed what sort of quality it gives in a 15L car. Why would people trust Tata.
Trust comes later.

First Tata has to make a reliable 12-15L vehicle. Only then it can claim trust. Since only benefit as a customer I can get from a vehicle is hassle free ownership, that yardstick is the only one by which I will judge TATA. I won't care how many companies it buys, and how many rallies it wins. I will look at my ownership experience, and use that to pass judgement. And that remains same for all cars I have owned, whether Tata or not Tata.

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Originally Posted by autocrat View Post
There are people on our forum who have bought cars from Mercedes and like, and they still have issues with their cars.
Look at any TBHP review about European cars(esp premium). Look at my BMW Xdrive experience report. This point about electronics reliability has been often stated. So I believe in calling a spade a spade. Whether its Tata or any other manufacturer. If a manufacturer errrs again and again, its offerings will be called unreliable.

So lets see Tatas competition
1. 10L SUV market
Only Safari and Scorpio here in the "premium segment". Scorpios are also niggely, but some believe they are more reliable. I think better Tata customer care service(which infact is amongst the best) offsets that to quite an extent. However, some things like(an entire batch of vehicles having timing belt issues and then needing a retro) are not minor
2. 15L bracket
Aria, Endy,GV.

Here Tata falls short by quite a margin.

So now they want to pit the Merlin against the XUV. It will work only if they manage to make a vehicle less niggly than XUV

Last edited by tsk1979 : 23rd February 2012 at 16:03.
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Old 23rd February 2012, 16:25   #442
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
8.5L is a lot of money. And 4x4 version costs upward of 10L

Secondly, we are talking about tata going premium, and the original question was "People have prejudice thats why they do not buy Tata premium offerings like Aria".
My answer still remains the same. Tata showed what sort of quality it gives in a 15L car. Why would people trust Tata.
Trust comes later.

So lets see Tatas competition
1. 10L SUV market
Only Safari and Scorpio here in the "premium segment". Scorpios are also niggely, but some believe they are more reliable. I think better Tata customer care service(which infact is amongst the best) offsets that to quite an extent. However, some things like(an entire batch of vehicles having timing belt issues and then needing a retro) are not minor
2. 15L bracket
Aria, Endy,GV.

Here Tata falls short by quite a margin.

So now they want to pit the Merlin against the XUV. It will work only if they manage to make a vehicle less niggly than XUV
TSK a slightly different take by me.

The problem when I for for that matter or even you give a view is that we do own these vehicle ourselves and are hence biased in some way. But then we are also experienced in using these vehicles.

I have myself lived the Safari TCIC for 10 years 175,000 kms and yes the niggles were there but not the engine related issues like in the 2.2 dicore when it was new. You have really taken the Safari through a very very hard test and while we know that the safari suspension and other components faltered at times for the "more than average" rigour that you put it throught we really don't know how the Scorpio or even say an Endy or a Fortuner would have fared. The others too may have other issues in the same situations in your hands. Also we do need to keep in mind that while a Fortuner Mirror costs about 30K we are talking about 2.5-5K prices for the Safari/Aria and in case of minor accidents on the road the repair costs would be somuch lower for a similarly specked car.

I have had a really nice time overall with the Aria till date and nope it was not 15L but infact 18.5L for me for the pride 4X4 version in Mumbai and I really selected it over the fortuner and the Endy for the overall value it offers. Yes the offer can be better and the XUV exhibits that but then the quality differential too is evident and I would probably have choosen the Aria all over again even post XUV release (though at the revised discounted values at which they have been available. )

Yes most of the other Aria owners on the forum sadly have had major issues but then as you did mention the service centers do make an effort to go the extra mile. Somehow even now in the price segment in which the Aria plays for a 4X4AWD crossover it is the most comfy compared to the Fortuner and the Endy on the inside and I do miss the AT but the AT fortuner does not come in AWD so that would not have helped and the Endy is just to bouncy on the middle row and even in front it has more of a car like seating posture compared to the errect one of the Aria. Yep the Fortuner and Endy both are superb vehicles for those whos needs it meets and the Aria is not yet there in providing an absolute trouble free experience as say the Fortuner but then is getting there and there are something that it offers than the others options just don't.

TATA too could definately have gone more aggressive on the price front right at the start and also have ensure that overall reliability (that more than quality seems to be the issue with the Aria) was even better. We hope they have learnt this lessons and now with most aggregates of the current Safari and newer Aria which are combined to form the new Safari Storm having been thorougly tested and improved things should be better from the word go in the new safari as well. Of course they are expected to get the price right but possibly for what we want the Safari to do and for the segment in which it plays the quality levels should be upto the mark.

Also somehow for me the XUV actually is a much more VFM / Affordable Captiva segment mono chassis vehicle like the Safari was called the affordable Pajero earlier. The Aria is really in no mans land and it though a ladder chassis vehicle is not a SUV looker or performer like the Fortuner / Endy nor a MUV like the Innova nor a VFM SUV like the Safari / Scorpio.

The Safari Storm Ladder Frame competing with the XUV Mono Chassis is similarly not really correct. But yes they are both options in the same price band with similar seating capacity. Actually both are 5 adults plus 1 or 2 child seaters.

Last edited by ACM : 23rd February 2012 at 16:31.
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Old 23rd February 2012, 16:50   #443
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

Hi guys, I am planning to scan Tata dealers in Delhi/Ggn for discounts on Safari this weekend. Could you please let me know if you are aware of any dealers giving good offers..

9.5 lacs on road Ggn for Ex 4x2 is doing the rounds.

Regards
Anand
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Old 23rd February 2012, 17:15   #444
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
You have really taken the Safari through a very very hard test and while we know that the safari suspension and other components faltered at times for the "more than average" rigour that you put it throught we really don't know how the Scorpio or even say an Endy or a Fortuner would have fared. .
suspension is just one component. What about engine issues, electrical issues, brake issues. They do not result from bad roads.
Most users who face issues face in the first 10,000kms. Part replacements follow, and then the vehicle stabilizes. For example at 77k, problems like AC/engine/electricals have mostly been rectified. I do not think most endys or fortuners have such issues out of the showroom.
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Old 23rd February 2012, 20:15   #445
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
suspension is just one component. What about engine issues, electrical issues, brake issues. They do not result from bad roads.
Most users who face issues face in the first 10,000kms. Part replacements follow, and then the vehicle stabilizes. For example at 77k, problems like AC/engine/electricals have mostly been rectified. I do not think most endys or fortuners have such issues out of the showroom.

I think, we should not compare vehicle costing 9L with vehicle costing 15-20L.
There is no denying that TATA need to improve though.

As per the very essence of Marketing concept, price of the product has to be equivalent to the value it provides to the customer (or equivalent to the customer's value perception). Considering this, IMO Safari provides immense value and still has the special brand aura.

If TATA can iron out even 90% of the niggles with Storme and keep the value proposition within close range, I think they will hit the bulls eye.

Off topic, I heard TATA would be showcasing the Storme at Geneva Motor show next month. It would be interesting to see if they have updated anything (specially interiors) based on the feedback they have received after showcasing the vehicle at Auto Expo 2012.
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Old 23rd February 2012, 21:58   #446
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
You have really taken the Safari through a very very hard test and while we know that the safari suspension and other components faltered at times for the "more than average" rigour that you put it throught we really don't know how the Scorpio or even say an Endy or a Fortuner would have fared.
I can't speak for the Fortuner yet, but I can tell you that in two years and 53000 Kms, I have owned my Scorpio 4x4, I have put it through paces which most SUV owners. will not do. A lot of my off-roading has been in 4 Low. You can see this from the bruises on the side steps and front and rear bumpers. I am not happy with the Scorpio primarily due to ergenomic issues and ride, However, I have not had to spend anything major on suspension/steering etc.
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Old 24th February 2012, 09:58   #447
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by adtalwar View Post
Hi guys, I am planning to scan Tata dealers in Delhi/Ggn for discounts on Safari this weekend. Could you please let me know if you are aware of any dealers giving good offers..

9.5 lacs on road Ggn for Ex 4x2 is doing the rounds.

Regards
Anand
I am waiting to see the same as well. It all depends how close the Storme is for a release. Kindly do share any information you get on the current safari.

I am also hoping that TATA does a XUV type introductory prize for Storme which if close to the current safari costs will be quite tempting since the ARIA chassis and new interiors seem to be quite good (Though the exterior look is not all that appealing)

Mr. Cyris Mistry: Hope you are you listening? This afterall is your first major launch in your new role
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Old 24th February 2012, 14:51   #448
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

Uraj, I will share information on this forum.

Mods:
I think we can get better offers if there are more members interested in the current Safari. Not sure of the do's and dont's while approaching a dealer for discounts and if I can quote the forum for collective benefit. Could you please provide your inputs.
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Old 24th February 2012, 15:58   #449
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by Nowden1 View Post
If TATA can iron out even 90% of the niggles with Storme and keep the value proposition within close range, I think they will hit the bulls eye.
Ironing out niggles doesnt happen overnight my friend. It has to come in the bloodsdstream. A Company cannot / will no build say indica of sub-standard quality but build an Aria comparable to Japanese quality. It is impossible. Only if learning over the years are incorporated in facelifts, upgrades, new models, the build quality would increase.

Even if Toyota builds a bi-cycle or an auto-rickshaw, it would have the same build quality of an LC200.
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Old 24th February 2012, 17:06   #450
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
Ironing out niggles doesnt happen overnight my friend. It has to come in the bloodsdstream. A Company cannot / will no build say indica of sub-standard quality but build an Aria comparable to Japanese quality. It is impossible. Only if learning over the years are incorporated in facelifts, upgrades, new models, the build quality would increase.

Even if Toyota builds a bi-cycle or an auto-rickshaw, it would have the same build quality of an LC200.
It seems you did not understand what I meant.

I had said that TATA should iron out niggles. Now, will they or won't they, only time will tell. The way they improved Vista and Manza over indica and indigo respectively, I am hopeful.

A relatively niggle free Safari Storme at around same price, is definitely a good value deal, at least for me. Basic funda is - you can not have benefits of both the worlds - perfectly reliable vehicle & very attractive price. However if they break value perception & price rule as mentioned by me in my earlier post, it will be off my "wish-list"

Yes, Toyota can definitely build a bi-cycle / auto-rickshaw with the same build quality of an LC200, but it will be priced twice the price of the bi-cycle / rickshaw built by Atlas / Bajaj. When Toyota tried to build a vehicle to price (Etios), hasn't the vehicle suffered on quality / reliability? Point is - manufacturers have to find the perfect median of price that buyers' willing to pay and the product quality and create their product accordingly.
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