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Old 8th April 2012, 00:33   #436
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

One thing I noticed in the ACI review was the noise of the engine inside the cabin. That was slightly high. It could be due to the thin windhsiled (?) like in the case of new Swift! But am sure team-bhp reviews will put an answer to it.

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Originally Posted by nayaksudhir View Post
...I suggest that gurus (GTO & Bros) park the car under direct sunlight during lunch time (45 mins or more) and, after they have had a good lunch measure time-to-cool or time-to-comfort with a gauge (person) in the last seat...
If I am guessing right, the review is already completed & sitting safe in the assembly line! The only thing missing in it will be the pricing of the car. But the pointers are good, our mods might try and answer those in depth!

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 8th April 2012 at 00:35.
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Old 8th April 2012, 02:41   #437
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by nayaksudhir View Post
I think one important aspect not adequately covered in the autocar review is cooling efficacy of the AC. With the puny engine and huge internal space to cool, the AC performance is bound to get compromised. One thing I would really want to see adequately covered in Team BHP review is the performance of AC in sweltering Indian summer. If this is supported with some comparative numbers (compressor capacity, BTU, time to cool etc), nothing like it.

This would be the 'one factor', apart from price tag which would eventually script the story for Ertiga (IMHO).
While the efficacy of AC may be an important requirement, I dont this it will be a deal breaker for a large segment of buyers. In my opinion, a strong/weak AC has rarely been a deciding factor among the masses for the success/failure of any car. This is because the two most important figures that matter for many are (1) Price Tag and (2) Fuel Economy. Mess with any one of the two and the sales figures could easily plunge, notwithstanding the many fitments/features it can offer.

For example, the old Versa was meant to be common man's Innova and promised a lot, but Maruti messed up big time with an overpriced car and to make matters worse, the Versa had a poor FE (12 kmpl). The Versa was doomed, even though it had a relatively powerful AC, and the Bachchan father-son duo could do little to lift sales.

Thankfully, the ARAI FE of the Ertiga has already been announced and it is great for a car of its size. Now, it all depends on the price tag. Price it right and the Ertiga could have an err...tikka (spicy) sales figures and it can easily become the prominent err...tikka (mark on Maruti's forehead).

Last edited by misquitas : 8th April 2012 at 02:44.
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Old 8th April 2012, 02:48   #438
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

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Right now, the Eeco is price at about Rs 3.75 lakh. Adding Rs 80,000 for the 1.3 DDIS would still make it very attractive at about Rs 4.5L
It will surely not be a direct fit, 1.3 DDis has 190Nm of torque, Will Eeco's current avatar be able to handle this, i dont think so.

Eeco will need to have mechanical changes in order to take it, provided they are able to fit that engine in the EECO's bay.

4.5L will not be OTR,I guess if its fitted with DDis , EECO will be more than 5L OTR which will make it a hit only with Taxi owners.
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Old 8th April 2012, 11:25   #439
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

I would probably look at how the engine copes with all 7 passengers on-board. I think at least a 100-110 bhp engine should have been used for a people mover like this.

But for my personal use, i would most likely not use the third row much, - for long am looking for a small (non-SUV) car with comfortable rear seats (read sliding and reclining) and i believe this would fit my requirements. Now its interesting to just sit back and see how the competition copes up.
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Old 8th April 2012, 12:02   #440
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

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I would probably look at how the engine copes with all 7 passengers on-board. I think at least a 100-110 bhp engine should have been used for a people mover like this.

But for my personal use, i would most likely not use the third row much, - for long am looking for a small (non-SUV) car with comfortable rear seats (read sliding and reclining) and i believe this would fit my requirements. Now its interesting to just sit back and see how the competition copes up.
Dont worry too much about the actual horses. It has ample torque and thats what matters for the average family.

You are right - most buyers will need the 3rd row occasionally. Its true even with Innova - as each commute occasionally takes the whole 7/8 seats occupied.

I also think there will be atleast the same amount of petrol buyers as they are with Dzire today. These folk dont drive 100kms per day.. They are among the under 30-40kms daily, and it doesnt make sense to buy diesel. So essentially it opens a new marget for MUV petrols IMO.

Swift family has done wonders - atleast for MSIL. Now I am getting greedy and I hope they do build a true SUV also from the swift family
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Old 8th April 2012, 16:04   #441
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

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Dont worry too much about the actual horses. It has ample torque and thats what matters for the average family.
I doubt it, my palio MJD does feel out-of-breath with five on-board with luggage. Torque-wise i felt the Fabia diesel was much better at lugging. I even heard ppl commenting SX4 diesel is sluggish. But yeah, without diverging from the topic here - i wonder how the 1.4 petrol fares at lugging all the possible weight!

As mentioned earlier, i would like to see how the competition does here, will they go for hatch-y engines too or ... ?
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Old 8th April 2012, 16:49   #442
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

Doesn't the Yeti and Skoda Superb come globally with 1.4 ltr petrol engines ?? So I doubt that would be an issue in lugging the Ertiga. Might not be enough for overtaking w/AC & 7 passengers but for 3 passengers and AC it might be just enough.
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Old 8th April 2012, 17:47   #443
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Doesn't the Yeti and Skoda Superb come globally with 1.4 ltr petrol engines ?? So I doubt that would be an issue in lugging the Ertiga. Might not be enough for overtaking w/AC & 7 passengers but for 3 passengers and AC it might be just enough.
Now I'm not completely sure if they're actually powered by 1.4 mills, but VAG have meager, small-capacity engines, and they do pack quite a punch. The TSI and TSFI engines are remarkable, in terms of performance and efficiency.

We can no longer go by cubic-capacity.

In fact, we must never go by cubic-capacity. It's the power and torque that matters.
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Old 8th April 2012, 18:01   #444
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by paliontile View Post
I doubt it, my palio MJD does feel out-of-breath with five on-board with luggage. Torque-wise i felt the Fabia diesel was much better at lugging. I even heard ppl commenting SX4 diesel is sluggish. But yeah, without diverging from the topic here - i wonder how the 1.4 petrol fares at lugging all the possible weight!

As mentioned earlier, i would like to see how the competition does here, will they go for hatch-y engines too or ... ?
Yeah, but then again, ironically Fiat doesn't know how to extract the best out of the 1.3 Multijet. MSIL have done wonders tuning the same engine with amazing performance which Fiat failed to deliver in its Punto. There are many posts in the same forum that attest to this fact!

The ideal characteristic of a 3 pot engine is this: it delivers good response at the higher end of the RPM. Low-end torque always takes a beating and that's a compromise with 3 pot engines. Surprising how you came to that conclusion regarding Fabia's 3 pot diesel.

People buying the diesel Ertiga aren't the ones looking for 0-100 stats. They are more of the crowd wanting to move 6-7 people in comfort in the city and on the highway. That's why the first 4 gears are short in the Ertiga for city driving and the overdrive 5th is quite tall according to Autocar review.

This DDiS engine produces the same torque (200 Nm) as the Innova. The SX4 is no tarmac scorcher but it isn't a slouch either! Diesels by nature are torquey and the Ertiga should have no problem lugging 7 people and their luggage around.
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Old 8th April 2012, 18:54   #445
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

Good point. It was noted in both swift as well as the dzire reviews about the thin glasses for side windows, making more road noise creep into the cabin.

On the point of A/C - I'm fairly confident of maruti proving the car with an competent unit. Afterall they know the indian customer's pretty well and twin compressor's should really help here. Price tag is probably the only big question mark as far as me is concerned.

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
One thing I noticed in the ACI review was the noise of the engine inside the cabin. That was slightly high. It could be due to the thin windhsiled (?) like in the case of new Swift! But am sure team-bhp reviews will put an answer to it.
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Old 8th April 2012, 22:45   #446
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by swiftdiesel View Post
The ideal characteristic of a 3 pot engine is this: it delivers good response at the higher end of the RPM. Low-end torque always takes a beating and that's a compromise with 3 pot engines. Surprising how you came to that conclusion regarding Fabia's 3 pot diesel.
but please bear with me.
I did a simple test when my friend bought a fabia diesel last month. I took my foot off the accelerator and moved the diesel in the first gear by slowly removing my foot off the clutch. After it started comfortably cruising around i slotted the 2nd and again eased off the clutch. It picked up enough speed with both passengers on board. I tried putting it in the third now and again it didn't even sputter. Cudn't try more than that as it was being done in the cellar, and i found it difficult to negotiate all those pillars at speed above 40s. Later i tried repeating this in my MJD (alone) and found the torque was hardly sufficient to put it in the second and not more. I can easily identify with the difference between the two, but then my MJD is more than 2 yearsold with the Fabia was hardly 2 weeks old - is that the differentiating factor?
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Old 8th April 2012, 23:38   #447
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

I don't recollect the website but I had seen a picture of Ertiga with the folded last seat. The middle seat had to be pushed further to accommodate rear seat's head rests. In that position there was hardly any leg space for middle row occupants except for may be kids. Has anybody observed the same?

Also I think Maruti should seriously consider providing a 60:40 rear seat split for better space management.

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Originally Posted by swiftdiesel View Post
Yeah, but then again, ironically Fiat doesn't know how to extract the best out of the 1.3 Multijet. MSIL have done wonders tuning the same engine with amazing performance which Fiat failed to deliver in its Punto. There are many posts in the same forum that attest to this fact!
And then there are dedicated threads started 4/5 years back to predict the day Fiat will shut its shop in India. BTW do you really believe the company that created a world class diesel heart does not know how to tune it for performance? And have you seen power, Torque figures for 2012 Swift and GP?

Last edited by Rock 'n' rollz : 8th April 2012 at 23:42.
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Old 8th April 2012, 23:47   #448
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

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Originally Posted by Rock 'n' rollz View Post
And then there are dedicated threads started 4/5 years back to predict the day Fiat will shut its shop in India. BTW do you really believe the company that created a world class diesel heart does not know how to tune it for performance?
Yes! Because Fiat Powertrain and Fiat Automobile are two separate bodies. So, technically, when Fiat plonked the 1.3 for the Punto, the tuning was done by Fiat India and not by Fiat Powertrain Technologies. That's why the Swift's tuning is way better than the Punto. Now without attempting to hijack this thread, let me say it doesn't bother me if Fiat shuts shop or not because I'm no brand snob. I see car as personal utility, period.
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Old 9th April 2012, 00:09   #449
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

I managed a short ride about a km in Ertiga Oil Burner.
I felt Ertiga is no match for Innova .I wonder why will someone not spend few lakhs more instead of having part arrangements .Also with about 7 of us in the car two guards , two bystanders , 2 friends and myself the ride was far from what most of us can digest . And remembers the luggage has not been loaded yet . The gears are short and i could feel the suspension bottoming out on the humps.
I believe people genuinely looking for a spacious and comfortable family mover will still go for Innova .
Also i feel based on ownership reviews of team Bhp and self experiences owing a Toyota is cheaper in long run .(Here i believe the fuel economy may change scales)

Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 9th April 2012 at 00:12.
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Old 9th April 2012, 08:56   #450
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Default Re: Maruti Ertiga 7-Seater : Auto Expo 2012

I feel it would be very unfair to compare Ertiga with Innova. Ertiga is no innova beater and I think neither does it intend to be one. I mean we dont need rocket science to figure out Innova is clearly a segment above the Ertiga. Where Ertiga fits in is I suppose somewhere below Innova, more of an 'Improvised' Station Wagon. 'Improvised' because of the availability of an additional row of seats for added flexibility. I dont think Maruti intends to present this as a genuine seven-seater or even a full time people mover at that. To me its more like a practical version of Ritz. A vehicle that can seat 4/5 adults in reasonable comfort with good leg space for the second row and an awesome loading bay which can double up as an additional row of seats for kids or even adults over short distances.
And for that purpose I feel Ertiga perfectly fits in provided they price it well.

Enter the Innova/xylo territory and you will be demolished. Price it sensibly, and Maruti would have another winner on its hands and would also have successfully created a whole new segment of 'Lifestyle Utility Vehicles' as they themselves call Ertiga.
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