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Old 14th May 2012, 00:02   #556
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

Am in Gothenburg, Sweden and saw the Dacia Duster today being displayed in a mall. They had both the 4wd & 2WD versions. Didn't take any pics except the board displaying the price.
A few things i noticed. Nothing new that hasn't been said here so lets just say am reconfirming.
1. It isn't tall by SUV standards.
2. Strictly a 5 seater. The middle row may be tight.
3. Decent luggage space - nothing more than what a sedan could provide.
4. Interiors were done in black and not a lot of fancy equipment in there. The windows were rolled up so couldn't see closely.
5. Fit & finish were great.

As and when its launched, if i'm out to buy a sedan, am definitely looking at this as a great option!

BTW - 1SEK = INR 8.
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Old 14th May 2012, 15:42   #557
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

3 Questions

1. Does it appears to be bigger than Sedan Ex: SX4
2. As you mentioned it doesnt look tall, does it look similar to Skoda Yeti?
3. What was the color of dashboard area?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilesh5417 View Post
Am in Gothenburg, Sweden and saw the Dacia Duster today being displayed in a mall. They had both the 4wd & 2WD versions. Didn't take any pics except the board displaying the price.
A few things i noticed. Nothing new that hasn't been said here so lets just say am reconfirming.
1. It isn't tall by SUV standards.
2. Strictly a 5 seater. The middle row may be tight.
3. Decent luggage space - nothing more than what a sedan could provide.
4. Interiors were done in black and not a lot of fancy equipment in there. The windows were rolled up so couldn't see closely.
5. Fit & finish were great.

As and when its launched, if i'm out to buy a sedan, am definitely looking at this as a great option!

BTW - 1SEK = INR 8.
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Old 14th May 2012, 17:17   #558
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

June 30th looks like a date worth waiting for.

From what I have heard, Renault is having some difficulty packaging components for the RHD variant. The Duster was never intended for RHD and the design would hence have to be modified extensively. Adding a 4x4 means another diff at the front which increases complexity.

Anyway, we did get to sample the LHD variant some time back in Italy. Here are my first impressions:

- Feels and drives very much car like - light controls, nice steering and very manageable body roll (yes, body roll does exist, but not at all alarming)
- In comparison to other smaller SUVs (Daihatsu Terios etc.,) the Duster felt the best.
- The cabin felt very much like a Logan - read built-to-a-price (I believe Renault India has modifed it extensively for India - good move definitely)
- We got to the sample the 85 HP version - felt a little underpowered (compared to something like a Scorpio), though the Duster weighs much less (than a Scorpio)


From my understanding, Renault is holding back the 4x4 for the following reasons:

1) Packaging complexity (discussed above)
2) To curtail demand - Renault is slowly ramping up the Duster RHD production
3) Indians have a liking for 4x4 (evident from last few posts ) - The demand for XUV AWD was so high that during the second round of bookings, M&M offered it only in FWD. Renault would want a smooth launch with no such huge backlogs.

Just like the Ertiga provided an alternative to sedan buyers without disturbing MUVs too much, the Duster would source some business from C/C+ segment sedans as an alternative vehicle. Given the SUV buying sentiment in India (UVs outselling sedans recently), I think Renault could not have timed it better.
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Old 14th May 2012, 18:33   #559
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

Quote:
Originally Posted by svkndv View Post
3 Questions

1. Does it appears to be bigger than Sedan Ex: SX4
2. As you mentioned it doesnt look tall, does it look similar to Skoda Yeti?
3. What was the color of dashboard area?
1. It does look bigger than the SX4. But the cabin space looked slightly more than the SX4 from outside. The seating looked tall in the front! I wish i could sit inside and get a real feel. If you look at it in flesh, you know this is small by SUV standards. But put it besides a sedan and you see the point.
2. I'm not sure. The yeti looks roomier given all that glass and boxy rear. It doesn't look tall cause maybe the wheel arches at the rear give it a squat look.
3. I think one model was clearly all black. It was the silver 4x2. The Brown 4x4 was standing raised on a platform. Couldn't see inside from the closed windows.

No point comparing it to Yeti for sure. SX4 and the other sedans need to watch their backs!
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Old 14th May 2012, 22:29   #560
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5_fan View Post
I was going through the euro NCAP site and found that the duster has only 3 stars out of 5 and the dacia duster (as its known in europe) was the least safe vehicle that euro NCAP tested in 2011. It got the poorest results.

I was considering it as a direct fierce opponent to the ecosport but now i don't think i shall consider it.

Here is the link:

Best in Class Cars 2011 | Euro NCAP - For safer cars crash test safety rating

I think the ecosport shall get a 5 star safety rating as its based on the fiesta which has also got 5 stars.
In India, such ratings dont matter. All manufacturers barring the German three skimp on equipment (read reinforcements) that give their vehicles 5 star ratings. I cannot tell you the source but the Hyundai i20 marketed in India with 5-star Euro NCAP rating is different structurally from the European i20. The Indian version cannot dream of getting 5-stars.

The prime reason for the above is the lack of standard tests in India. These reinforcements also help reduce costs. This is also the reason why Maruti doesnt market the new Swift as having 5-star Euro NCAP rating. The Indian version is different from the European structurally. I bet it is the same with the Indian fiesta and the case is the same with every manufacturer.
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Old 14th May 2012, 22:59   #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designersf

In India, such ratings dont matter. All manufacturers barring the German three skimp on equipment (read reinforcements) that give their vehicles 5 star ratings. I cannot tell you the source but the Hyundai i20 marketed in India with 5-star Euro NCAP rating is different structurally from the European i20. The Indian version cannot dream of getting 5-stars.

The prime reason for the above is the lack of standard tests in India. These reinforcements also help reduce costs. This is also the reason why Maruti doesnt market the new Swift as having 5-star Euro NCAP rating. The Indian version is different from the European structurally. I bet it is the same with the Indian fiesta and the case is the same with every manufacturer.
What manufacturers skimp on are some safety features like number of airbags, ESP etc. and yes it does reduce the star rating of indian cars, But structurally the cars are exactly the same. I have verified this with VW, Ford and also BMW engineers. Many of my school time buddies are design engineers in Asia Pacific region in these brands so i have asked them.

But if the duster has a 3 star rating in europe then in india its going to be even worse as they are going to skimp on the number of airbags etc (hopefully they dont). :(
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Old 15th May 2012, 16:04   #562
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

The only airbags that you see as an option internationally and which definitely will not make an appearance here are the lateral/thorax airbags. Front two airbags will be present in the top model.

^^ The more I read abt Renault India's plan regarding the specs; the more I seem to realize that the Duster may end up just looking a bit SUV-like; but will not feel or drive like one (Pros & Cons included)
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Old 15th May 2012, 20:09   #563
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5_fan View Post
What manufacturers skimp on are some safety features like number of airbags, ESP etc. and yes it does reduce the star rating of indian cars, But structurally the cars are exactly the same. I have verified this with VW, Ford and also BMW engineers. Many of my school time buddies are design engineers in Asia Pacific region in these brands so i have asked them.

But if the duster has a 3 star rating in europe then in india its going to be even worse as they are going to skimp on the number of airbags etc (hopefully they dont). :(
I am in the automobile industry and we tear down cars for analysis. I can very confidently say that my point is true - Indian cars are skimped of crucial reinforcements (compared to US and European) versions of the same car. I stand by it because I have seen it in flesh.
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Old 15th May 2012, 21:26   #564
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

Quote:
Originally Posted by designersf View Post
I am in the automobile industry and we tear down cars for analysis. I can very confidently say that my point is true - Indian cars are skimped of crucial reinforcements (compared to US and European) versions of the same car. I stand by it because I have seen it in flesh.
You probably know it more than us if you are working in the industry. If its true, i still won't be cribbing much if i get what i need.

Its and industry and we get what we pay for. We want everything but within a price point. And given that the Indian national highways aren't exactly a worthy competition to the US interstates or European freeways, do i need that level of reinforcement?

Everyone in US or Europe drives everyday through some or the other interstate for work. So the "road" in road worthiness is absolutely different from what we have here in India. Most of us drive our cars usually in clogged city roads venturing out on highways maybe once a year?

So the point is not simply to judge whether the manufacturers are treating us unfairly or that indian crash tests are not as stringent. It is also important to consider how stringent do we need to be - today and in future and gradually push the manufacturers for that level of safety equipment. I don't want to pay for some futuristic road scenario that isn't going to happen in India for the next 15yrs! But yeh, i demand the best safety that i really need.

Back to the point - if Renault makes ABS & Airbags mandatory even for the basic trims and makes the car structurally road worthy for Indian conditions, i'm happy. I will pay extra for any additional safety features i need. That's what localisation is all about right?
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Old 15th May 2012, 21:52   #565
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

Since safety is very much underated in India just want to share a breaking incident-

A good friend & business associate bought, a few months ago, the fully loaded SX4 - ZXi AT version - at my insistence that he go in for the full safety features.

I just heard today that a couple of days ago, while going to Bangalore, he had a crash with a tractor trolley @ high speeds. There was emergency braking from 100ish kmph & airbags deployed on impact & all passengers in the car were uninjured (one person in the rear seat had some shin bruises). The car was towed back to Pune with the driver accompaning it on the tow truck. Frend & his group continued their business trip to B'lore & returned yesterday.

He mentioned to his office staff that the Airbags & safe body of the car prevented a serious turn of events. Will meet him tomorrow to get the full updates.

Is it not high tiome tha Airbags & ABS with EBD be made compulsory? For a start atleast it can be made compulsory to offer it as an extra across all variants of a car. Larger cars, which will be driven at higher speeds on the highways ( I know - I know -a M800 used to be flogged @ 120 by a maniac like me. But madcaps like me are rare.) should have it as a compulsory addon.

Wake up Maruti & give Airbags with ABS as options on all ur variants. Then the others will follow.
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Old 15th May 2012, 21:59   #566
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilesh5417 View Post
And given that the Indian national highways aren't exactly a worthy competition to the US interstates or European freeways, do i need that level of reinforcement?
Actually we need more safety features because of the above - the cars' speed and power are much much more than what our roads can handle. No wonder we have the worst record in terms road fatalities

Sorry for the OT, couldn't help!!
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Old 15th May 2012, 22:04   #567
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

Features updated on Renault India site-
Renault - Overview

Stylish Chrome grille
Twin barrel headlamps
16'' Alloy Wheels, Front Fog Lamps
Keyless entry
ABS with Brake Assist & EBD
Dual front Airbags
Plush Leather Upholstery
4 Speaker Music System with USB, AUX-IN & Bluetooth Connectivity
Satellite Audio & phone control
Rear Defogger, rear wiper & washer
Electrically adjustable ORVMs
Rear parking sensors
A Boot capacity of 475 litres.
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Old 15th May 2012, 23:21   #568
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilesh5417 View Post
..

Its and industry and we get what we pay for. We want everything but within a price point.....
Since India's are often paying more than developed countries for cars this has to be misplaced. Everybody in the world wants a good deal, as do Indians and since cars prices are higher here I think it is natural to expect the same quality.

I don't see how it can be ok to pass off lower quality, its nothing but a rip off and devaluing Indian lives if manufacturers are doing as stated by designersf.

And the only reason has to be the lax adherence to standards and lack of awareness.

Last edited by raul : 15th May 2012 at 23:23.
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Old 15th May 2012, 23:36   #569
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Default re: Renault (including Duster Unveil) @ Auto Expo 2012 - EDIT: Now launched at 7.19 Lacs

Quote:
Originally Posted by mallumowgli View Post
Actually we need more safety features because of the above - the cars' speed and power are much much more than what our roads can handle. No wonder we have the worst record in terms road fatalities

Sorry for the OT, couldn't help!!
We can't have safety features make up for bad driving habits. I live in Pune and the roads are just fine. I'm happy getting 2 airbags & abs for my kind of driving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raul View Post

I don't see how it can be ok to pass off lower quality, its nothing but a rip off and devaluing Indian lives if manufacturers are doing as stated by designersf.
That is a pretty radical statement! I go back to my original thought. If i get what is good, practical and adequately safe for me, i'm happy. I don't want to pay for something because the Americans are paying for it! But if we are really paying more for the same car, apples-to-apples comparison, compared to US, i agree that we have a reason to complain.

I would be really happy if the law makes it mandatory to have ABS & Airbags!
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Old 16th May 2012, 06:30   #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sridhar-v
Since safety is very much underated in India just want to share a breaking incident-

A good friend & business associate bought, a few months ago, the fully loaded SX4 - ZXi AT version - at my insistence that he go in for the full safety features.

I just heard today that a couple of days ago, while going to Bangalore, he had a crash with a tractor trolley @ high speeds. There was emergency braking from 100ish kmph & airbags deployed on impact & all passengers in the car were uninjured (one person in the rear seat had some shin bruises). The car was towed back to Pune with the driver accompaning it on the tow truck. Frend & his group continued their business trip to B'lore & returned yesterday.

He mentioned to his office staff that the Airbags & safe body of the car prevented a serious turn of events. Will meet him tomorrow to get the full updates.

Is it not high tiome tha Airbags & ABS with EBD be made compulsory? For a start atleast it can be made compulsory to offer it as an extra across all variants of a car. Larger cars, which will be driven at higher speeds on the highways ( I know - I know -a M800 used to be flogged @ 120 by a maniac like me. But madcaps like me are rare.) should have it as a compulsory addon.

Wake up Maruti & give Airbags with ABS as options on all ur variants. Then the others will follow.
Your friend is a lucky person. Not all of those who have such head on impacts survive to tell the tale! Yes indeed, given the fact that our Indian roads are not safe and the Indian road users do not generally like following rules, added to the high speeds that these modern vehicles can achieve, the government and the law should certainly make it mandatory for safety kit to be standard in all variants of all vehicles.
Additionally they should enforce rules like seat belt wearing, helmets for 2 wheelers, lane discipline, removal of all unsafe vehicles especially the broken, jagged edged public transport buses and lorries etc, instead of fooling around with this sun film nonsense. When will our dunderheads actually learn to do anything properly?
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