Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th November 2012, 15:38   #61
Distinguished - BHPian
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 4,524
Thanked: 3,292 Times
Default Re: Jeeps entry to reduce Tata-Fiat ties only to engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
This would lead to one thing, either they might sell out the factory and exit india.
I donít think they will have plans to exit India operations. Once our market grows, we will see lot of low volume manufacturers survive without much of problem. And in Fiatís case the engine manufacturing, supply and export will ensure a steady revenue for them to survive and more.

But yes, a lot depends on how the brand Fiat perform globally. Every year we are seeing quite a few brands withdrawn/closed globally.
vb-san is offline  
Old 30th November 2012, 15:42   #62
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: EU - Nordic
Posts: 1,532
Thanked: 909 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

Indigo+Manza number is about 8-9K monthly. Even if we assume Manza sells 6K units out of that, I don't think it's a big number to lose IF Fiat wants to make India an export hub. They would also be hoping to recover those numbers by increasing their own domestic sales (and introducing new models).

I find it a positive that Fiat does not want to depend on Tata to run it's plant. Something like a statement of intent.
StarrySky is offline  
Old 30th November 2012, 15:55   #63
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,563
Thanked: 1,768 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
Now the point boils down to one thing. "Why Ending Manza production in fiat plant? Lending the factory to make manza's will fetch FIAT some money. So why ending it? Anyways, FIAT is not making any money by selling Its cars."
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
But until more models come in, the plant can simply run a couple of hours shift to cater to the current demand of Punto and Linea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
I donít think they will have plans to exit India operations.
I had heard from sources and reported in the Fiat dealership thread (not letting them out) that Fiat is coming up with a few more models (not revealed to me, but one of them is a sub Punto car) in 2013. Perhaps they would need the factory capacity for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
Indigo+Manza number is about 8-9K monthly. Even if we assume Manza sells 6K units out of that, I don't think it's a big number to lose IF Fiat wants to make India an export hub.
6K Manzas a month, does it sell that much?
selfdrive is offline  
Old 30th November 2012, 16:27   #64
Distinguished - BHPian
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 4,524
Thanked: 3,292 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
I had heard from sources and reported in the Fiat dealership thread (not letting them out) that Fiat is coming up with a few more models (not revealed to me, but one of them is a sub Punto car) in 2013. Perhaps they would need the factory capacity for this.
That probably should be the Panda, quite a sensible car in the range of Brio, i10 etc.

It will be interesting to see if they will setup separate sales and service team for the Jeep brand, especially since its in a niche segment.
vb-san is offline  
Old 30th November 2012, 16:43   #65
Distinguished - BHPian
 
nkrishnap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,368
Thanked: 3,800 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

The FIAT plant currently has an annual capacity of 200,000 units, that roughly 16,667 units a month.

Now if Manza was utlizing around 6K units, which will roughly translate into 36% of plant capacity. Add to it around 12600 units of Punto and Linea which will add up another 6% and take the utilization to around 42%

Are Vistas manufactured in this plant? If yes add another 4K units = 48000 per annum. So another 24%

The total utilization would be 42+24 = 66% which is still grossly under utilized. The plant still has a lot of capacity left to accommodate the small car + Jeep products (if bought through CKD route).

With just the statement of intent, FIAT cannot generate money from the Plant operations.

PS: If they have that many models + export plans to utilize the plant completely, its better for FIAT. Also does this signal better plastic and component quality?
nkrishnap is online now  
Old 30th November 2012, 17:05   #66
BHPian
 
avira_tk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 622
Thanked: 566 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

Jeep is a brand that suffers from quality issues that plague most American manufacturers, the joke about the Cherokee is that the fuel in the tank is worth more than the vehicle itself.

I hope some real improvement happens before they launch in India and earn a reputation like Fiat - and go nowhere.
avira_tk is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 30th November 2012, 18:00   #67
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 531
Thanked: 350 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
The FIAT plant currently has an annual capacity of 200,000 units, that roughly 16,667 units a month.

Now if Manza was utlizing around 6K units, which will roughly translate into 36% of plant capacity. Add to it around 12600 units of Punto and Linea which will add up another 6% and take the utilization to around 42%

Are Vistas manufactured in this plant? If yes add another 4K units = 48000 per annum. So another 24%

The total utilization would be 42+24 = 66% which is still grossly under utilized. The plant still has a lot of capacity left to accommodate the small car + Jeep products (if bought through CKD route).

With just the statement of intent, FIAT cannot generate money from the Plant operations.

PS: If they have that many models + export plans to utilize the plant completely, its better for FIAT. Also does this signal better plastic and component quality?
Oops.. you missed that, The plant capacity is 3L+ Engines and 2Lakh cars.
So 1Lakh engines for maruti. This was recently revised to supply 2lakh units. So this would change your equation of Plant utilization levels.

Regarding Manza, Manza is exported to some other countries too. And these export ones are made in either Tata/Fiat plant. The manza's domestic quality and export quality are different. so they are made seperately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
I donít think they will have plans to exit India operations. Once our market grows, we will see lot of low volume manufacturers survive without much of problem. And in Fiatís case the engine manufacturing, supply and export will ensure a steady revenue for them to survive and more.
This is quite possible. They hardly sell 300 - 500 cars in a month. Even if they want to grab a decent position in our Team BHP sales charts, they need to add a hundred of sales and service centres. 100 sales and service centres... man the real estate cost is high and i dont think that FIAT will be capable of doing it. Yeah.. they have got a 2000 cr loan approved but they have to pay 400 Cr to indian government now.
gemi_kk is offline  
Old 30th November 2012, 22:23   #68
Senior - BHPian
 
rameshnanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,217
Thanked: 786 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
This is quite possible. They hardly sell 300 - 500 cars in a month. Even if they want to grab a decent position in our Team BHP sales charts, they need to add a hundred of sales and service centres. 100 sales and service centres... man the real estate cost is high and i dont think that FIAT will be capable of doing it. Yeah.. they have got a 2000 cr loan approved but they have to pay 400 Cr to indian government now.
The talk of Fiat selling the factory and exiting India at this point of time sounds absolutely illogical and rubbish to me at a time when they are setting up independent dealership.

Do remember that Fiat's plan is to setup 80+ dealership by Mar'13. And more dealers by end of 2013 if the statement from Mr. Atanasio is to be believed.

The 400 crore which you are referring is still being contented and is not owed by current Fiat India.
rameshnanda is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 30th November 2012, 23:19   #69
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kottayam
Posts: 1,081
Thanked: 153 Times
Default Re: Jeeps entry to reduce Tata-Fiat ties only to engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
This would be one good act from FIAT side.
Now the point boils down to one thing. "Why Ending Manza production in fiat plant? Lending the factory to make manza's will fetch FIAT some money. So why ending it? Anyways, FIAT is not making any money by selling Its cars."
Looks more like "Economic Times" kind of report..
The plant is jointly owned by Tata Motors and Fiat (50:50 JV). Tata Motors is currently loosing money in this JV. So it is possible that TM will exit the JV, which menas FIAT has to bring in more money to buy out its partner. This will benefit Tata Motors as a company, as it will be able to recover some money(also stop losing money) and re-invest in R&D. Also foreign media reported talks of Tata Motors trying to partner with another mulinational OEM for Engine technology, it could be mainly for Jaguar(Contact with Ford will end in the near future), but can be used in Tata cars also if need arise. Also note that Fiat could still supply engines to Tata, even if Tata exist the JV, and this will be cheaper for TM than continue investing in Fiat plant. (Ford still supplies engines to Jaguar). As the JV did not took off as expected, If FIAT buys out Tata in JV, it will be a win-win for Tata Motors. But it will all depends Fiat's willingness to invest in India. Do they have the money to invest (also management focus) while Europe is not doing well and North America, still issues in buying out Chrysler.
We do not know the long term strategy of Tata Motors ( Tata and Jaguar together) and Fiat, so this report is more of speculation than real facts.

Last edited by teamveevee : 30th November 2012 at 23:22.
teamveevee is offline  
Old 30th November 2012, 23:23   #70
Distinguished - BHPian
 
nkrishnap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,368
Thanked: 3,800 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
Oops.. you missed that, The plant capacity is 3L+ Engines and 2Lakh cars.
So 1Lakh engines for maruti. This was recently revised to supply 2lakh units. So this would change your equation of Plant utilization levels.

Regarding Manza, Manza is exported to some other countries too. And these export ones are made in either Tata/Fiat plant. The manza's domestic quality and export quality are different. so they are made seperately.
I nowhere mentioned about the utilization of the engine plant. I was talking about the unit that makes the cars and not just the engines.

I am not too sure, they have different assembly lines for the domestic and export Manza. If so my reaction is
nkrishnap is online now  
Old 1st December 2012, 00:21   #71
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 531
Thanked: 350 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
The talk of Fiat selling the factory and exiting India at this point of time sounds absolutely illogical and rubbish to me at a time when they are setting up independent dealership.

Do remember that Fiat's plan is to setup 80+ dealership by Mar'13. And more dealers by end of 2013 if the statement from Mr. Atanasio is to be believed.

The 400 crore which you are referring is still being contented and is not owed by current Fiat India.
Yeah.. i do remember. There are other companies, which were about to start a factory in india like Peugeot, however because of economic situations in europe, they have cancelled their plans in india. Isn't it?

I think FIAT needs to pay those 400 Cr. i think they have already filed a petition related to this, however the payment should be made. They may get a refund once this is settled.

Yeah, i felt like they might leave india. In a price sensitive and a challenging market predominantly dominated by Japs and koreans, It would be a DOA Challenge for FIAT, if they take it aggressively from Here. The Other European brands are VW, Skoda which hardly have a market share. Even they are struggling despite of having service network. FIAT has no service network at all
Effectively if they want to make a significant up move in the market. it is a real tough job. Plant Cost + real estate cost + dealers freebies + rising employee cost + effective spares distribution + operate at low profit level + make a car like a TANK which should give better FE than a Jap car, at a price cheaper than other JAP car to attract customer. OMG... Rolling on the floor laughing. and it ain't a joke in today's scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
Looks more like "Economic Times" kind of report..
The plant is jointly owned by Tata Motors and Fiat (50:50 JV). Tata Motors is currently loosing money in this JV. So it is possible that TM will exit the JV, which menas FIAT has to bring in more money to buy out its partner. This will benefit Tata Motors as a company, as it will be able to recover some money(also stop losing money) and re-invest in R&D.
We do not know the long term strategy of Tata Motors ( Tata and Jaguar together) and Fiat, so this report is more of speculation than real facts.
You are correct. It would be a Win Win for Tata Motors for sure.
Thanks, i never knew that the Ranjangaon plant is a 50-50 JV with Tata. I was in the assumption that it is owned by FIAT. If FIAT wants to exit this JV, then it is a real costly affair for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
I nowhere mentioned about the utilization of the engine plant. I was talking about the unit that makes the cars and not just the engines.

I am not too sure, they have different assembly lines for the domestic and export Manza. If so my reaction is
oops.. "The total utilization would be 42+24 = 66% which is still grossly under utilized. The plant still has a lot of capacity left to accommodate the small car + Jeep products (if bought through CKD route).
"
These lines misguided me. So tried adding some value.
gemi_kk is offline  
Old 6th December 2012, 07:54   #72
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 8,880
Thanked: 13,128 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

Chrysler, Jeep set for India entry, speculated entry at 30- 40 lakhs, if locally assembled.

Quote:
Grand Cherokee, which even for Jeep is a landmark car. Built on the same platform as the Mercedes-Benz M-class (due to Daimlerís erstwhile ownership of Chrysler), the new Cherokee boasts the stiffest chassis in its class. Some Jeep traditions are carried over; you get that famous toothy, seven-slat grille up front, a low-ratio transfer case and a Selec-Terrain dial (much like Range Roverís ĎTerrain Responseí system). Under the hood is a common-rail diesel motor that has been designed and engineered by Fiat, but built by diesel specialists VM Motori. Displacing 2987cc, this V6 is reputed to be silky-smooth and has bags and bags of torque.

http://www.autocarindia.com/News/325...dia-entry.aspx
volkman10 is offline  
Old 6th December 2012, 08:26   #73
BHPian
 
bobbafett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 107
Thanked: 166 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

Unfortunately, Jeep as a brand does not have a great reputation for reliability and technological advancement in its home market. But then as we all know, stranger things have happened. A similar downmarket brand like Skoda has managed to become upmarket luxury car maker in India (with the attitude to boot!). Having said that, The Jeep wrangler is a very exciting prospect, and will certainly appeal to those buyers who want to have a serious off road vehicle with the requisite comfort and safety features and good quality (something the Thar does not have) - but of course only few will be able to afford its CKD/CBU price!
bobbafett is offline  
Old 6th December 2012, 11:14   #74
Distinguished - BHPian
 
nkrishnap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,368
Thanked: 3,800 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

The wrangler though might do what a Thar is supposed to do, we should not be comparing it simply because of the different price points these two come at.

One could buy probably around 3-4 Thars depending on the price of the Wrangler.

I dont think any launching happening today. There might be announcements about future launches and the probably a few dealerships and related announcements.
nkrishnap is online now  
Old 6th December 2012, 12:04   #75
BHPian
 
Autocop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Thane/Nagpur
Posts: 322
Thanked: 89 Times
Default Re: Fiat to bring JEEP Grand Cherokee

Launching Jeep at that price is sheer rubbish under current market circumstances. I don't think Jeep/Fiat/Chrysler brands command enough global/local reputation that our market would allow them to launch Jeep as CKD at 30-40 lakh, and then, allow them to localize later and sell at reduced price. It's a wild dream. Seriously hope it doesn't exist in Fiat-Chrysler management's initial plans.

Fiat-Chrysler needs to focus on brining affordable products in tandem (similar to what Nissan-Ranault or VW-Skoda are doing) under each of the brands that distinguish themselves from competition. IMO, they should look at establishing both as seperate brands with their own independant sales/service network, rather than having both Fiat-Chrysler products available under same dealership.
Autocop is offline   (1) Thanks
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2014 Jeep Cherokee Unveiled (Jeep Liberty replacement) chevelle The International Automotive Scene 30 24th February 2014 20:10
Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo X raveen_2023 Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 26 12th August 2013 03:01
Jeep Grand Cherokee Import OpticalRace SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 1 25th October 2010 11:46
Pics : Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited v12 Super-Cars & Imports in India 12 18th April 2010 02:20


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 18:29.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks