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Old 27th January 2012, 22:25   #16
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

I completely agree with what you've said. The more and more you analyze your car buying decision, the more you paralyze it. We need to do our research, but when we get a little too much into it that's when the nit-picking starts and your in a state of royal confusion.

I think when we're researching, at some point we start focusing more on buying that 'perfect' car which for all practical reasons doesn't exist.

My case for example, without even a TD i'd booked the Swift ZDI, and since there was a crazy waiting time, i TD'd all the hatches and that's when the confusion started. Finally after 6 months of research, i bought a car which i'd ruled out in the beginning. The Polo 1.2 TDI. Now when i sit back and think, it makes me wonder why i did all that research which included multiple TD's of many cars and driving every car form the Figo to the Polo.
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Old 27th January 2012, 22:33   #17
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

Very true. Most of the car today are good. There is lot of subjectiveness and bias too. How many times it happened that somoene buys a car and says it was a wrong decision to buy that car? (unless it is a case of lemon). Typically, all ownership experiences goes something like "I now completed 1000 KM and just loving it". This is true with nearly all the cars in the market. So as it is said here there is nothing like bad car.

When my wife bought Estillo, I thought she has made a wrong decision. But after 3 years now, I couldn't find anything really wrong with this car.
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Old 27th January 2012, 22:50   #18
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

I think that the car reviews by owners are representative of what you can expect. For example (random examples)
- Bad service from majority of Skoda Dealers
- Car suddenly stopping - Figo. Thankfully now solved
- Constant niggles, but otherwise no major problems - Scorpio and Safari
- Enhanced service costs - Hyundai
- Excellent A.S.S. but a lot of rattles - MUL

The list can go on, but short of owning the cars this is next best thing in understanding what you are in for once you buy your preferred model.

In my case I want to replace my Esteem. I bought an Alto K10 last August, and it suits my purpose to a T, but when the whole family travels it is a bit cramped. So my choice is
. A larger hatch with comfortable seating for 4
. A sedan, preferably diesel so that I can take it for long rides, just for the fun of it.

Without this forum, I would be at the mercy of the opinions of my friends and acquaintances. But thanks to this forum I can go through the ownership experiences. Now Rapid Ambition suits my requirements perfectly, but I shudder at the thought of the Skoda A.S.S. Vento Highline has a lot of features of no interest to me, but the Trendline does not have height adjustable seats.

I agree that those who can afford can try out different options and discard the purchase if it does not suit them. But for most of us buying a car is an expensive affair and cannot be just shrugged off.
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Old 27th January 2012, 22:59   #19
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

Reminds me of few of my friends who were a bit too judgmental while looking for a match!!!! I am talking of arranged marriages here. Some of them are still looking.

The only way to avoid "Analysis Paralysis" is to understand that nothing lasts for ever, least of all a car!!! And that it is not the last decision one is going to make in his life.
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Old 27th January 2012, 23:42   #20
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

On top of selecting the car these days most of them are also confused between "Petrol" Vs "Diesel" calculation, they break their head and finally end up with a diesel car just because everyone is going for a diesel car and then if you see their usage in reality, it will be much lesser for a diesel car.

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Ofcourse I would not buy a Dzire.
Even I was of the same opinion few months back. But when I was in market looking for a entry level sedan I didn't find any beauties in this segment (Dzire/Manza/Verito/Etios) to prefer. Dzire fitted my requirements perfectly and I am happy with it, it has done close to 20K now.
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Old 28th January 2012, 01:09   #21
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

This is going to become "A must read thread" (if it hasn't already!)

My wife & I have been looking at a new hatch for the last 6 months and we have still not finalised - mostly because of Analysis Paralysis! We started out with the i20 (junked it due to the steering issues stories on T-Bhp and lifeless steering when I did the TD), then the Polo but decided that it was overpriced, the Figo (super VFM but felt that we are settling for a lesser not-so-premium car) and did not even look at the Liva and Punto.

Basically, we were (are!) trying to fit too many things into one car (we can't yet afford separate cars for different purposes) and doing too much analysis (excel sheets!) and not enough feeling; till the 1st post on this thread by VeyronSuperSprt really put things in perspective.

One of the outcomes of that first post is that we looked at the Punto (having NOT looked at it earlier due to A.S.S stories on T-Bhp) and we were very pleasantly surprised at what we found and now for us its a fight between the Figo (which wifey seems to have fallen for) and the Punto (which I seem to have faller for!) ...

Let's see what happens (will decide by next week hopefully!), but if it were not for the first post I think all said and done, we would have felt only 80% happy whichever car we chose! Now it seems like a more rounded decision ... 95% (Still need to have different cars for specific purposes!)

Thank you VeyronSuperSprt for starting this thread.
And for adding one more thing to argue about between wifey and me!
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Old 28th January 2012, 02:16   #22
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

I do beg to differ on this one, simply for a single reason - Every buyer is a different buyer and perspectives vary from person to person.

IMHO a buyer should go through pros and cons, reviews, first hand experiences and as detailed researches as possible. if he does not then he is not a smart consumer.

A new car breaks down for an owner, who do you think would regret his buying decision more?
a) a guy who purchased his vehicle with all the due diligence, did not rush into things
b) or the one who did not go through details just went through basics and bought a car but later found out stuff published here already claiming the same issues

Even auto companies today would agree to the fact that they are getting a more informed lot of buyers these days which in turn forces them to improve on their products and services.

Afterall if we were not going in to the minutest of details why would they focus on constant improvisation.

I used to be a carefree buyer but now when I see my friends doing a detailed analysis of TBHP and other sites before buying, mapping their needs and requirements to filter out certain selections then finally going to details about these products, looking at reviews, ownership reports, long term ownership reports, issues reported, service experiences etc. I feel I have been wrong in not doing the same thing.

I totally agree to the fact that one can end up with a wrong choice even after taking an informed decision but the probability of the decision being wrong goes low if you are doing your due diligence moreover atleast there remains a peace of mind because a voice inside tells you "dude you did your home work and gave it your best shot, did not work out hard luck"

I know I went a bit philosophical but hey every man's first love is his ride
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Old 28th January 2012, 04:01   #23
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

For most of us, buying a car is not just our decision because it is an expensive affair. There are many people involved in the decision. If it just were our decision, then the Analysis Paralysis would be reduced a bit. Since so many stake holders will be involved in the car buying decision in India, it just adds to the confusion.

Consider this example. My heart says i want to buy a one particular car. And it has many negatives. However, if it were just me, I would buy that vehicle. But many in the family bring out the negative points in the car and confuse you with your decision.

Hence just going by one's head or heart does not solve the problem.

Whatever may be the case, I agree with kaks15 that it has to be an informed decision. Just going blindly by heart will help you in short term, but in the longer term, it may be problematic as many unknown things about the car might creep up which one may not be ready for. Again for example, say one really has the heart set on a TATA safari and makes an impulse purchase without knowing fully about the vehicle. Once it starts giving the niggles, he will regret the decision as these things come as a shock to the buyer.

I do not think anyone on Team-BHP makes such uninformed purchases though and everyone here has basic knowledge about the cars they purchase. The ownership reviews and official reviews on team-bhp are exactly for this purpose. Arm other potential buyers of the vehicle with information.

Last edited by himavanth_m : 28th January 2012 at 04:03.
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Old 28th January 2012, 04:41   #24
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

This thread makes for interesting reading. Like most, it is important to buy what you want rather than what your neighbor wants because your needs are different.

A case in point is a friend who I just helped with selecting her car. She needed a car with a spacious seating and comfortable for her parents who are slightly obese and old. She also wanted the snob value of a sedan, but was also looking for something which she can use for quick dives to congested areas. She liked the looks of the Linea but then the long travel clutch made her forego that. Then she liked the verna but it wasn't spacious. The manza fit the bill almost to the 'T' Except for congested driving issues and daily run around. She was looking for the QDJ but her daily running was less than 30 kms. And, that was only because some diesel is cheaper.
I convinced her to buy the Manza Safire90 petrol, by showing her the ownership cost comparison. Also with the difference (almost 1.3-1.4 lakhs) she has booked a Nano top end version (+50K) for her daily errands. And overall she is very much within her budget of 9 lakhs!

This option can also be considered!
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Old 28th January 2012, 05:46   #25
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

For someone who's buying a Nano, a Bentley might be thought of as an automotive aberration. A Bentley buyer, on the other hand, could think of the Nano as something that takes up unnecessary space on our already cluttered roads. They would both be right (in their minds) as far as the opinion of their cars are concerned and not really accurate as regards the car owned by the other. Their opinions don't make either car a bad car or a good car, it's just that there's a mismatch between their respective requirements and what the car's offer.

On an another note, car manufacturers benchmark their products with the competition (something that everyone needs to do if they have to survive in any market / any product). As a result you will not find a huge difference between cars competing in the same segment. The differences will be on brand equity and updated models (newer models / engines will have better performance / fuel efficiency figures over older cars being sold in the same segment).

Benchmarking is done in any industry - if you were to buy a TV / refrigerator you will not find a difference worth mentioning between TV's or refrigerators in the same price band.

It's quite simple really - if there was a difference, the competitive forces in the market would eliminate the underling.

Exceptions here are mismanaged companies or companies that haven't got their act together and these products may suffer on product quality / service quality / availability of spares.

Ok, now let me run along and ask my bentley-owner-neighbour's opinion on the Nano that I have been planning to buy for the last 18 months 23 days 11 hours 37 minutes.

Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 28th January 2012 at 06:07.
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Old 28th January 2012, 09:50   #26
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

The first 80% of your selection work would take take 20% of the time.
Its that last 20% job, where you spend your time eternally!

So cut that part of the time by going with your heart. The first 80% of your selection would have been done by head anyway!
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Old 28th January 2012, 10:48   #27
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

I've always felt that on T-BHP, ABS and airbags have always been overrated as part of safety. Most members always recommend going for a cheaper car but of top end variant so as to avail airbags and ABS. They seem to ignore other factors like strength of body chasis and handling at high speed.

Let's look at an example. Hyundai Eon Sportz comes with driver side airbag (but no ABS) and is priced same as my Ford Figo LXi which doesn't offer airbags or ABS.

I'll leave you guys to decide which one you consider safer during an accident- An Eon with driver side airbag or a Figo without any airbag.

As for "handling at high speed", you can take a look at this post- http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post2636426

You will see in above link that Eon doesn't have safe handling. I feel this is more important as they help in avoiding accidents in first place.

Another example, a sad one, is Hyundai i10 here at http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post2641726

In the above link, the car toppled thrice following a tyre burst (most probably due to high center of gravity). Had it been another car, a Maruti 800 for example, which has low center of gravity. I don't know for sure but it's impossible for me to imagine an 800 turning turtle.

So, what I'm trying to say here is if one really values safety, please don't consider airbags and ABS as the complete package, also do analyse other factors like high speed handling, low center of gravity and chasis strength etc.
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Old 28th January 2012, 10:59   #28
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
I've always felt that on T-BHP, ABS and airbags have always been overrated as part of safety. Most members always recommend going for a cheaper car but of top end variant so as to avail airbags and ABS. They seem to ignore other factors like strength of body chasis and handling at high speed.

So, what I'm trying to say here is if one really values safety, please don't consider airbags and ABS as the complete package, also do analyse other factors like high speed handling, low center of gravity and chasis strength etc.


Just the fact that you have ABS and Airbags, creates a false sense of security. It further contributes to rash driving, as you feel that these two gizmos will bail you out in case of a mishap. Driving safe is a state of mind and no amount of gizmos or design will prevent an accident if you are bent on it. Ever seen a two wheeler winding through heavy traffic at high speed? Imagine what will happen if there is a slight error on any body's part.

It is a known fact that the majority of accidents are due to "human error", just a nice word for bad driving. As far as safety is concerned, seat belts are primary defense, followed by proper structural design of the body. Bad handling, especially at high speed can initiate an accident where a well balanced chassis would escape.
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Old 28th January 2012, 13:08   #29
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
I've always felt that on T-BHP, ABS and airbags have always been overrated as part of safety. Most members always recommend going for a cheaper car but of top end variant so as to avail airbags and ABS. They seem to ignore other factors like strength of body chasis and handling at high speed.

Let's look at an example. Hyundai Eon Sportz comes with driver side airbag (but no ABS) and is priced same as my Ford Figo LXi which doesn't offer airbags or ABS.

I'll leave you guys to decide which one you consider safer during an accident- An Eon with driver side airbag or a Figo without any airbag.

As for "handling at high speed", you can take a look at this post- http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post2636426

You will see in above link that Eon doesn't have safe handling. I feel this is more important as they help in avoiding accidents in first place.

Another example, a sad one, is Hyundai i10 here at http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post2641726

In the above link, the car toppled thrice following a tyre burst (most probably due to high center of gravity). Had it been another car, a Maruti 800 for example, which has low center of gravity. I don't know for sure but it's impossible for me to imagine an 800 turning turtle.

So, what I'm trying to say here is if one really values safety, please don't consider airbags and ABS as the complete package, also do analyse other factors like high speed handling, low center of gravity and chasis strength etc.
On Indian roads, where speeds have increased over the past few years but road manners havent changed safety features make a big impact. In many accidents only seatbelts will not help as your head might still bang into the steering wheel which is dangerous. ABS (Anti Lock Brakingsystem) typically comes with EBD (Electronic Brake Force distribution), though in most cases ABS will engage only if you manage to lock the brakes, EBD will almost always kick in to manage the brake force on the front and rear brakes. This almost certainly will help in panic braking situations, which most of us cannot react to sufficiently well (pumping the brake, dropping a couple of gears, etc). In these scenarios it will help to have ABS/EBD. Also, I have seen people braking ON the curve rather that INTO the curve, without EBD you probably have the risk of losing your rear in case you do this at speed, however with ABS/EBD, it surely will reduce the risk as it will control drift. A low CG or high CG car will not make a difference. Though a better handling car will give you better control, ABS/EBD add a level of safety for drivers who cannot really handle such situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post


Just the fact that you have ABS and Airbags, creates a false sense of security. It further contributes to rash driving, as you feel that these two gizmos will bail you out in case of a mishap. Driving safe is a state of mind and no amount of gizmos or design will prevent an accident if you are bent on it. Ever seen a two wheeler winding through heavy traffic at high speed? Imagine what will happen if there is a slight error on any body's part.

It is a known fact that the majority of accidents are due to "human error", just a nice word for bad driving. As far as safety is concerned, seat belts are primary defense, followed by proper structural design of the body. Bad handling, especially at high speed can initiate an accident where a well balanced chassis would escape.
Seat belts are primary defence, Airbags are secondary defence. They are counted as active defence. Passive defence is what you mention (structure, handling etc). But passive defence is just that (passive). In a collission, the car will absorb the impact however the seatbelt and airbag will stop you from colliding inside the car due to the inertia that your body caries.

Another point is that most top end cars only have Seat belt pretensioners and load limiters as standard. Lower cars or mid range cars have regular seat belts.

Anyways this is OT and we need to take our discussion to another thread (safety).
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Old 28th January 2012, 14:08   #30
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Default Re: Removing the Analysis Paralysis syndrome while buying a new car

The actual fact is we are just so much obsessed with numbers that we Indians just want to justify some decision for having taken it. Car is also a classic example for this.

Believe me, for being in Car industry I get query from a lot of people asking which is the best car. I put across so much numbers first asking what the the features they like the most etc etc. But I have noticed that all those who ask the question invariably end up choosing Maruti's or Hyundai's (not judging) but the only reason they ask the question is because they want to justify their decision. They only take the good part of what I said about Maruti and Hyundai.

Nowadays I dont bother when someone asks me what car to buy, I keep telling follow your heart, I know no matter how much data I supply they will end up buying Maruti and Hyundais.
Those who actually buy the tier II, like Toyota, Ford, Tata and Fiats are those who do research themselves. They dont seek advise on anything.
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