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Old 31st January 2012, 09:53   #1
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Default Speculation: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

Just saw this good news in ET today. Honda is planning to introduce diesel variant of Brio soon. Also they have plans to introduce diesel variants in City and Jazz seems. Way to go Honda !

Source -> Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio to increase market share - The Economic Times

Cheers...venks
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Old 31st January 2012, 10:46   #2
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Default Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

Vow! Thats an awesome news.
Thanks for sharing Venks.
AFAIK, earlier Honda was reluctant to explore diesel mill for Indian market as they understand that our diesel is on the higher side of adulteration compared to other markets.
But after seeing the success of TDI and MJT engines grabbing the major chunk of the market, they are finally forced to re think and match their engine to perform for such kind of varying fuel quality and climatic conditions.

This step would be major game changer for their market share. Good Luck Honda!
Eagerly awaiting further details on this press release and hope its not a speculation by E.T.
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Old 31st January 2012, 10:54   #3
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Default Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

Pricing will be so important .A Brio Diesel will be attractive only if its priced lower than the Swift diesels and somewhere closer to the Ritz VDi. Anything higher and I am sure it will go the Jazz way .
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Old 31st January 2012, 11:25   #4
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Default Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

All good, but which is that engine- 1.2 iDTEC?

AFAIK, Honda has a 2.2L diesel and the recently introduced 1.6L iDTEC producing 120 Bhp. Any smaller diesel engine has been introduced after that?

@ Honda: Do take this opportunity to do something about the ugly looking hatch. I find it the worst looking backside of all the cars present in India. Its a deal-breaker in an other competent package.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 31st January 2012 at 11:29.
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Old 31st January 2012, 11:40   #5
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Default Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

I don't think Indian diesel is more adulterated or not good enough for Honda engines, the problem is that the Japs are not leaders in diesel tech, Honda being a slow mover and Suzuki doesn't have a diesel engine.

If the German trio can have their cars run on ordinary diesel(most euro cars have a sticker that instructs you to fill only ordinary diesel), and we are talking about cars that cost 10-15x what a Jazz/Brio/City cost. The problem is not with fuel in India, even Hyundai offered a CRDI around 7 years ago and they are considered upstarts in comparison to the Japanese. Honda has to price the diesels correctly and if there is a surge in sales, I doubt their service infrastructure can keep up, Toyota owners are already complaining about the difficulty in getting a service appointment after the launch of the ETIOS twins.
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Old 31st January 2012, 11:48   #6
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Default Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

I really don't know how to react. Given the current scenario where govt. is mulling over extra duty(tax) for diesel vehicles, the petrol vehicles but be good enough. Pricing would be important, but tell me who would buy a 7 lakh(OTR) fully loaded BRIO???
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Old 31st January 2012, 12:02   #7
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Thumbs up Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

Honda India is new to diesels, Honda is not.

Honda has sold a 2.2 liter diesel engine in the Civic and CRV in Europe for many years, and it is quite successful. There's also the famous ' we hate diesels' campaign that Honda launched at the time of introducing the engine. It's an advertising classic.

That Honda 2.2L diesel engines has almost petrol-like high-revving characteristics. Yes, they do make a bit more noise than Honda petrols, but are quite compared to European diesels, and have a good reputation for reliability and refinement.

Just taking a bigger picture view from the individual bits of news...

1. Honda has publicly said are accelerating diesel engines for India.

2. Honda had refused to bring the european 2.2L diesel engine to India. But, an advanced and smaller, 1.6 Liter i-DTEC turbo diesel engine was unveiled two months ago (Tokyo Motor Show) that produces a peak power of 120 Bhp of 4,000 rpm and peak torque of a gargantuan 300 Nm at 2,000 rpm. WoW!

3. Compare the 1.6L iDtec figures to the D segment. Looks like the Honda car most likely to get this engine will be the Civic. Priced right, it will pull sales from Cruze and Corolla Altis D, as well as petrol competition in that segment. Yes, the competition is closer to 2.0L engines than 1.6L, but the numbers on this 1.6 seem to make it worthwhile. Could also be the way to keep Honda prices reasonable/ margins high.

4. Now, Honda sources seem to have have acknowledged that a 1.2 Liter version of this engine is being tested on the Brio! That makes it very likely that the 1.2L diesel will also go into the jazz as well. I hope it is not a chopped block 3 cyclinder version - that'll be very anti-Honda.

5. Remember that both the 1.6 and 1.2 are fresh investments from Honda, even though the 1.2 is likely to be a derivative rather than a completely fresh design. I think they'll avoid another engine size (an intermediate 1.4L between 1.2 and 1.6) to keep costs in check.

Here's the Question/ point to consider -
a.) will Honda make two versions of this 1.2L diesel engine. A lower-spec/power version for the brio-jazz, and a higher spec, full power version for the city.
The engine family clearly has torque to spare. That could mean a competitively priced City diesel. Unlikely to be an absolute scorcher, but could still be better than the Corolla Altis D that's doing very good numbers. (better = higher torque and lower gross weight leading to better performance).
OR-

b.) Honda could slot a version of the 1.6L engine into the City - it'll probably beat everything from the Verna, Vento to the now fairly expensive Cruze. Though this may cause Honda to again overprice the car. If it happens, I think a detuned version may be possible to keep it below the Civic. But, overall, I tend to believe this is unlikely.

What do you think?
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Old 31st January 2012, 12:27   #8
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Default Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

With the Govt contemplating hiking taxes on Diesel cars in the coming budget, Honda is going to have a 'late to the party' situation again! Unless they get the pricing correct, even bringing in Diesel variants will not help.
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Old 31st January 2012, 12:52   #9
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Default Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

Honda is too slow to bring in the diesel engines, by the time they do, India would have it's diesel vehicle surcharge in place and diesel fuel tax added on make the 'private' diesel car unviable.
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Old 31st January 2012, 13:08   #10
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Default Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinair View Post
With the Govt contemplating hiking taxes on Diesel cars in the coming budget, Honda is going to have a 'late to the party' situation again! Unless they get the pricing correct, even bringing in Diesel variants will not help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
Honda is too slow to bring in the diesel engines, by the time they do, India would have it's diesel vehicle surcharge in place and diesel fuel tax added on make the 'private' diesel car unviable.
While the governement is mulling hiking taxes on Diesel cars, I think it will face stiff opposition from the auto industry which is already reeling under high interest rates, a weakening ruppee and strikes/ parts shortage. Diesel cars are probably the only silver lining for most car companuies and they will surely do all they can to ensure that either the said tax is not a large value or that the implementation of the tax is delayed.
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Old 31st January 2012, 13:35   #11
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod332002 View Post
While the governement is mulling hiking taxes on Diesel cars, I think it will face stiff opposition from the auto industry which is already reeling under high interest rates, a weakening ruppee and strikes/ parts shortage. Diesel cars are probably the only silver lining for most car companuies and they will surely do all they can to ensure that either the said tax is not a large value or that the implementation of the tax is delayed.

I think taxed diesel cars will be better than completely deregulating the diesel prices as per auto industries.
Why would people buy diesel cars then if the running cost difference will be come negligible ?
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Old 31st January 2012, 13:37   #12
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Default Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

Quote:
There's also the famous ' we hate diesels' campaign that Honda launched at the time of introducing the engine. It's an advertising classic.
Here's the link

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Old 31st January 2012, 13:47   #13
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Default Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

I hope they bring the i-DTEC with AT.

A Diesel Auto hatch makes immense sense in our cities. And I wonder why everyone is waiting for someone to open the flood gates. Honda, please be that someone.
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Old 31st January 2012, 14:03   #14
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Default Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

I guess Honda is late for the Diesel party.
As someone said, by the time they actually have something in the showroom, diesel car tax regime would have started. This would have to be dealt carefully by Honda in price sensitive market.

@ deetjohn - bang on. Honda should start this. Jazz with Diesel + AT + sub-8.5 L --- killer combo isnt it?
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Old 31st January 2012, 14:09   #15
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Default Re: Honda Motor plans diesel variant of Brio

I am rather curious to know about the engine, since theu have nothing for this segment in their internal engine lineup. The 3-cylinder Bosch CRDi doing duty in the Beat perhaps?
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