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Old 4th February 2012, 20:27   #1
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Default Suggestions to the Indian Govt - On alternative fuel vehicles

Bhpians,

Do help with the above, basically have to create an official document which will directly be sent to the PMO and new pannel that is responsible for promotion of alternative fuel cars, commercial vehicles and two wheelers and any other form of transport,

While I personally have taken care of what I could I assumed no better place than this to get a wider suggestions, you may write about advantages, dis advantages, would love detailed suggestions on carbon foot prints of vehicles of same kind running on fuel vs the same in hybrid or electric format?

What can be done to promote infrastructure for such a progress?

What kind of promotions should the govt. Run to lure buyers into them and also manufacturers make them for India?

Also what kind of tax breaks etc. Would you like if you choose such an alternative energy vehicles? Compared to what other countries are doing? Where they are better or where there is room for more improvement?


Please do put facts and as much as possible for anyone who agrees with someones post, could you just click on the thanks button? Sorry if that sounds rude, I have no intentions I only want this thread to be as precise with ideas as possible.

Will do all I can to incorporate all points mentioned here, and in due course of 18 months you will see concrete results for all points that make business sense.

Regards,

P.S : thanks to all who do write,
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Old 4th February 2012, 20:48   #2
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I think a good starting point would be to have vehicles like the prius and civic hybrid available at a much lower price. This i think would address the short term problem of reducing consumption while setting up hydrogen pumps for cars like the fcx clarity in the long term.

A lot of our driving involves bumper to bumper traffic and something like a prius or civic hybrid can be very effective. The problem that the civic hybrid faced and the prius faces is the steep price.

We need to make this technology available for mainstream cars like the Alto and the Swift. While the all electric Reva is good to have but its extremely impractical. I agree with Clarkson and May that the electric car is not the future. The FCX Clarity on the other hand is.

Our country is still developing and hence we have the flexibility of building new towns the way we want without worrying about legacy systems. This is why i think we can build hydrogen pumps much faster than lets say the US.

I dont think we need to give tax breaks to people at all. Just make the import of this technology cheap for now with a 2 year deadline to set up manufacturing this tech locally. I dont see why people wont buy a hydrogen powered swift for roughly the same price as a diesel swift.

For now though hybrids should be made cheap. A civic/city hybrid for the same price as the petrol will be awesome. I do about 40kms a day in bumper to bumper traffic with speeds almost never exceeding 50-60kmph. I believe thats the sweet spot for hybrids. However there is no way i'm paying 26L for a prius.


PS: i should have picked up the civic hybrid when they were clearing stocks at 13L
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Old 4th February 2012, 21:11   #3
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How did the govt promote IT in India. Provide infrastructure to manufacturers to do R&D here, provide tax holidays for manufacturers for building the cars here from ground up, do not overload green cars with lots of taxes to ensure they are cheaper to buy and own in order to promote acceptability.

What does govt gets in return, greener tech cars on Indian roads, less dependence on imported crude oil leading to less forex spend.

The final puzzle to solve is which green tech to adapt, this is going to be more painful process as electric or hybrids are only stop gap arrangements the ultimate goal is hydrogen fuel cell which emits water from exaust making is cleanest in my opinion.

The other thing one needs to remember is we cant be too far and removed from the rest of the world as using same tech all over the world will lead to effeciency in manufacturing leading to cheaper production.

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Old 4th February 2012, 23:46   #4
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Default re: Suggestions to the Indian Govt - On alternative fuel vehicles

Well this is a little offbeat suggestion, but I feel the Govt. needs to start promoting and subsidizing other means of transportation like Air Travel and Waterways. The infrastructure spending required to develop these means are lesser than in building road networks. If we promote these means of travel for goods and people, our dependence on our road network reduces. This could help us optimise our roads for travel.
For example: Mumbai is a city that is covered by Sea on all 3 sides, and yet water transport is very under utilised. The Govt could look at setting up harbours/ docks along the coast. This isn't a very expensive process as compared to building roads and bridges. By making it easier for people to commute by sea, there would be lesser cars on the road, decreased traffic congestion and lesser consumption of fuel to run the same distances.
Similarly road transport which is used to carry around frieght around the country can be substituted by barges/ small ships. This could optimise the use of our highways, reduce the wear and tear on them.
Air Travel for cargo should also be subsidized instead of heavily taxed.
----
I'm not a very big fan of Hybrids because the total carbon emissions of the car are still high, if you consider the manufacturing of the cells, transport, life etc.

We need to give tax breaks to cars according to their emission levels and their fuel effeciences. A smaller engine needed always be a cleaner engine.

For manufacturers setting up plants in India, we could offer tax breaks if they meet certain green norms when it comes to their plants efficiency and pollution control norms. Lets try and make it economically viable to have clean production plants. Spend money to have a clean and green plant and benefit by the way of tax cuts.
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Old 6th February 2012, 15:21   #5
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Default re: Suggestions to the Indian Govt - On alternative fuel vehicles

Sad to see such a wonderful tread lying dormant for so long. No posts over the weekend.

Anyway, i do keep reading this thing and hence, will try to pour interesting developments in this thread.

Few years ago there was this news about water (plain or sea water) to be used to power automobiles, six months later the euphoria died as it takes more energy to electrolyze water to create energy then the energy produced. Hence the application of it in automobiles was almost ruled out.

Hydrogen fuel-cell cars which were forgotten when focus shifted on biofuels and batteries, is again looking interesting. All in all the industry now believes that Hydrogen fuel cells is the fuel of the future. This is the tech we should back and invest in doing research to make it a reality in next 10 years.

On 9 September in Stuttgart, Germany, nine major car manufacturers Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Renault, Nissan and Toyota signed a joint statement suggesting that fuel-cell vehicles could hit dealerships by 2015.

Source - Hydrogen vehicles: Fuel of the future? : Nature News
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Old 6th February 2012, 16:06   #6
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Default re: Suggestions to the Indian Govt - On alternative fuel vehicles

Contrary to some suggestions here, i do not see the need to subsidize the import of hybrids. IMO, they hardly increase mileage by a couple of km max and charge a huge primium(even without taxes!). i'd say, heavy investment are required to increase the number of metros making it similar to say london. This would drastically reduce on road traffic. Keep in mind, the quality of services have to be good so as to convince people to leave their cars at home and take the metro. electric cars may not be the ultimate goal but fuel cell cars are still not even close to being practical. So locally made electric cars have to be supported by thd government.

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Old 6th February 2012, 16:39   #7
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Default Re: Suggestions to the Indian Govt - On alternative fuel vehicles

Hi,

I'd also recommend reading the following threads:

All about BioFuels (Biofuels : Explained & explored. Must read for Biodiesel admirers) (Highly recommended)

Alternative Fuels : Any major tech? (Alternate Fuels - Any Major Technologies?)
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Old 6th February 2012, 17:37   #8
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Default Re: Suggestions to the Indian Govt - On alternative fuel vehicles

Thanks a lot everyone for your suggestions and feedback, like I said most already exist but any extra points from here will only add to the good of the future in terms of alternative tech. In cars for India and beyond,

Also please do look at it from the point of govt, and what should they do to introduce or make others introduce better and more fuel effecient and greener cars, pls avoid looking at this from the point of wishing or hoping cars get cheaper, yes that's a nice wish and point but no point in discussing those because if this policy gets across you will have alll you desire at the price you desire,

Also while I agree public transport etc. Is good but without me being rude I don't need any suggestions on those as they are just not within the realm of this document, we have enough departments who take care of it and they will, but in this please only stick to personal transport and how and what needs to be done and can be done,

Also, while I can't assure you I will try get individual credits for those who add any out of the box but yet do'able suggestion,

Lastly,

Do keep writing,
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Old 6th February 2012, 17:48   #9
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Default Re: Suggestions to the Indian Govt - On alternative fuel vehicles

Thailand has a nation wide network of CNG. due to them subsidizing CNG, the cost is very low, therefore even national trucking lines, as well as most commercial, and many private vehicles(including SUVs) have shifted to CNG. They have curbed their import bill, and also reduced the pollution to a large extent.
Since India has large gas reserves, a consolidated effort to have CNG pump network on a large scale nationwide will help promoting CNG. CNG cars cost as much as petrol cars, and therefore initial cost will be low.
With a national network, commercial trucks can shift to CNG, so diesel subsidy can be reduced without having a significant impact on inflation.
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Old 20th February 2012, 15:55   #10
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Default Re: Suggestions to the Indian Govt - On alternative fuel vehicles

I understand this thread has little interest, but incase you read Economictimes today,

Economictimes.com Link

Regards,
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Old 20th February 2012, 16:13   #11
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Default Re: Suggestions to the Indian Govt - On alternative fuel vehicles

Recently read this

FORD SETS LAND SPEED RECORD WITH FORD FUSION HYDROGEN 999 FUEL CELL RACECAR - (Motorsports Journal: FORD SETS LAND SPEED RECORD WITH FORD FUSION HYDROGEN 999 FUEL CELL RACECAR)

This and some more makes me feel Hydrogen fuel cell cars can be a reality sometime in near/distant future. Another article which believes electric cars are the future - (The Last Car You Would Ever Buy--Literally - Technology Review).

There is an equal push for electric cars from some manufacturers (somehow i do not like it as its still going to pollute the environment, unless we figure out something which is much-much cleaner) - http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-electric-cars

Last edited by mayankjha1806 : 20th February 2012 at 16:16.
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Old 20th February 2012, 17:30   #12
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Default Re: Suggestions to the Indian Govt - On alternative fuel vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by S350L-E240 View Post
Bhpians,

Do help with the above, basically have to create an official document which


Will do all I can to incorporate all points mentioned here, and in due course of 18 months you will see concrete results for all points that make business sense.

Regards,

P.S : thanks to all who do write,

As of now the alternatives are well known i.e. EV, PHEV, CNG, LNG. The tech is almost developed for all the alternates. I am not listing Fuel cell as the hydrogen infrastructure is something I do not believe can be done in a cost effective manner.

The issues that constrain implementation are essentially infrastructure related, as I am sure you are well aware. That involves providing fiscal incentives, which I am sure you are also aware of.

I, for one would be very interested in knowing the thrust of the report you are submitting in terms of:

[1] the alternatives that in your considered opinion are the most cost effective to implement in terms of investment outlays as well as beneficial environmental impact, and

[2] the incentives that you feel are warranted to make such alternatives a viable option.

As and when you feel appropriate, please do share your thoughts. It shall be most enlightening to hear what inputs the decision makers in the government are receiving from those, whose counsel they are seeking.

Regards
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Old 25th February 2012, 20:51   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S350L-E240
Thanks a lot everyone for your suggestions and feedback, like I said most already exist but any extra points from here will only add to the good of the future in terms of alternative tech. In cars for India and beyond,

Also please do look at it from the point of govt, and what should they do to introduce or make others introduce better and more fuel effecient and greener cars, pls avoid looking at this from the point of wishing or hoping cars get cheaper, yes that's a nice wish and point but no point in discussing those because if this policy gets across you will have alll you desire at the price you desire,

Also while I agree public transport etc. Is good but without me being rude I don't need any suggestions on those as they are just not within the realm of this document, we have enough departments who take care of it and they will, but in this please only stick to personal transport and how and what needs to be done and can be done,

Also, while I can't assure you I will try get individual credits for those who add any out of the box but yet do'able suggestion,

Lastly,

Do keep writing,
One of the most important things to do to make transportation greener does not involve the vehicles at all. It is the infrastructure available and the way it is used. I wonder if traffic discipline is part of this doc. Smooth flow of traffic will go a long way in reducing fuel consumption. It doesn't involve an investment of a few thousand crores either.

The most advanced vehicles and the best infrastructure means nothing if the users don't use it properly.

My two cents.
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Old 25th February 2012, 21:37   #14
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Default Re: Suggestions to the Indian Govt - On alternative fuel vehicles

1. Introduce Petrol+ethanol mix like in Brazil.
2. Improving infrastructure and building more flyovers in cities to avoid traffic congestion.
3. Promote car pooling officially, Provide incentives.
4. Most importantly, Better roads across the country.
5. Rapid Trasnsit Systems in metros for public transport.
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Old 25th February 2012, 21:49   #15
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I could not read the while thread because I was too excited to put forth my views, so please oblige.

Although I'm against putting money in alternate fuel vehicles, mainly hybrids, I still have few points that might help.

1. R&D - For CNG, LPG, Hydrogen fuel cells. No hybrids, no electrics, no solar power.

2. Promotion of CNG in cities other than Delhi(its the only city I know which has CNG everywhere).

3. Lesser taxes for eco friendly cars.

4. Development of a proper world class transport system (it can be echo friendly too). And if this is done, government can happily impose major taxes on cars and fuel so that less people buy cars(Yes, just like singapore) Although the auto industry in india will crash then. :-P

5. Certainly awareness about the importance is eco friendly cars will be very helpful.
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