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Old 18th February 2012, 21:08   #241
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
I think itís getting a bit too much negative about VW, and assuming that they will not come up with a root cause, or will try to cover up the facts. What if they are deep into getting the reasons behind this? After all this is an important market for them, and I hope they make the findings public.
Too optimistic about VW ? I agree to you that they might be doing some deep findings, but mainly the whole thing has gone wrong, totally wrong.

1. The RTO should have taken ARAI experts help and investigated the problem and never handed over the car to VW without closing the case.

2. VW taking car to the factory leaves a lot of scope for them to cover up.

3. VW has obviously played fishy. Most of the news paper dint mention the Car model, RTO statement says there was no mechanical failure - why dint they comment on electrical failures if any? Then VW making a statement that there was a accident before fire etc.
In case of Tata Nano the whole news channel and news paper went berserk about publishing it, but in case of VW none of them even showed the news.

This is as if police handing over Kasab to pakistan for investigation

It is pity that our country doesnt have strict laws and the Alien companies take us for granted.

Skoda stories and now VW- Damn it.
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Old 18th February 2012, 23:17   #242
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

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Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
1. The RTO should have taken ARAI experts help and investigated the problem and never handed over the car to VW without closing the case.
Amit its all got to do with the chalta hai attitude that we have in India. No Government agency takes up their work seriously because at the end of the day they know they be receiving their salary and no one question them what you did.
There are no strict laws or guidelines which could help the consumer in anyway. For instance many Indian soldiers and policemen sacrificed their life while fighting terrorist and capturing Ajmal Kasab. And what is GoI doing, spending crores on him to keep him safe and feed him for what.
Everyone is concerned about themselves only and nothing about country on a whole. Sorry for going a bit off topic mods.
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Old 19th February 2012, 00:25   #243
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

I am not at all comfortable with this idea of VW experts trying to find the cause. They will use this opportunity to cover up their tracks. There should be a third party investigation.

My condolence to the family. There is really nothing positive going to come out of this.

BTW I always thought that Diesel wont burn on its own. So Diesel cars will be a little more safe compared to the Petrol.

And as far as the little coverage this has got in media is concerned all I can say is, Shame on you media. You are as much a partner in crime as them.

Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small;
Though with patience he stands waiting, with exactness grinds he all;
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Old 19th February 2012, 16:39   #244
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

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I am not at all comfortable with this idea of VW experts trying to find the cause. They will use this opportunity to cover up their tracks. There should be a third party investigation.
Am curious if your comment is based on any precedent where VW tried to hush things up ? If the answer is yes - you certainly have a reason to be concerned. If not, well I really cannot understand why so many posts seem to suggest that VW will not provide a fair assessment of what went wrong.

Im certainly not here to defend VW or anyone else for that matter & will reserve my comments until the investigation is complete. Like everybody else on this forum, my thoughts are with the family of the departed soul.
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Old 19th February 2012, 19:26   #245
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

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Originally Posted by Enigmatic View Post
Other bhpians have rightly pointed out that TOI had blown the whole Tata Nano fire incident to such heights that it had literally became the talk of the nation , even though no lifes were lost and Tata had come out with a detailed investigation rather fast .

However in this preset scenario where a life has been lost , there was no mention about the Brand / Company . This is something that is not expected from a paper that people rely on for being true to atleast their knowledge.
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VW are among the major advertisers in TOI across all editions. They spent around 6 crores for their "talking-ad" in the TOI for just a day's advertisement. So now you know why the "paid news of India" would go all guns blazing at the tiny nano (as you rightly pointed out) even after Tata did all they can to get it fixed & not a whimper against VW.
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Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
1. The RTO should have taken ARAI experts help and investigated the problem and never handed over the car to VW without closing the case.

2. VW taking car to the factory leaves a lot of scope for them to cover up.

3. VW has obviously played fishy. Most of the news paper dint mention the Car model, RTO statement says there was no mechanical failure - why dint they comment on electrical failures if any? Then VW making a statement that there was a accident before fire etc.
In case of Tata Nano the whole news channel and news paper went berserk about publishing it, but in case of VW none of them even showed the news.
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If not, well I really cannot understand why so many posts seem to suggest that VW will not provide a fair assessment of what went wrong.
Agree with a lot of what has been said. Just adding some thoughts to it.

Media
We people are partly to blame. We pay pittance for newspapers. The system/society is not evolved enough to value paying for high quality newspapers. Most of the inflow of media companies comes from advertizes, obviously leading to a conflict of interest and open to influence. It is a simple matter of commercial viability.

If a media house comes with a newspaper at Rs.10-15 with good reporting, are we willing to pay for the news?

We need to evolve and be willing to pay for better reporting.

That, however, does not absolve the media of what it ought to be doing. Good reporting can also be a big competitive advantage. May take a while for the society to evolve enough for that - right now, it is about "Duggu" and not "Dhyan Chand" (btw, I too am a guilty of TOI!)


VW analyzing the matter


Of course they should. They ought to know the car better than anyone else and hence have the best chance in reaching the root of the matter. However, is it logical to give a potential culprit the mandate to give a judgement? They should have gotten the car after a comprehensive and competent report from an independent 3rd party agency.

The sad state of affairs that exists is that it seems to be easy to manipulate and influence things. Just look around at the audacity of scams and crime around us. There is a belief of being able to get away.

We probably need a much wider systemic change.

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Old 20th February 2012, 00:08   #246
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
We people are partly to blame. We pay pittance for newspapers. The system/society is not evolved enough to value paying for high quality newspapers.
I disagree here. A friend from newspaper industry once told me that ads and classified sections generate so much revenue that some leading dailies can afford to give away free newspapers daily to readers. They do not because that would give the game away. Do you know that they get subsidised paper-rolls and also some other incentives from Govt. Why and how else do you think you and I get to buy almost half a kg weekend editions at pocket change. Most dailies' ad rates have shot through ceiling, including classified section tariff. So, what we pay may look like a pittance but there is much more to it than meets the eye.
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Old 20th February 2012, 00:48   #247
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

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I disagree here.
Mate, maybe I was not able to convey things clearly enough. We both seem to be in agreement on the fundamental fact, that newspapers get a substantial part of their revenue from advertisers. That is what makes it easy for them to be manipulated by advertisers, who are paying the newspaper companies.

If someone wanted to run a newspaper without influence from advertisers, they would need to be able to financially survive (and well, make profits), they would have to charge a lot more than what we are now used to paying. (the Rs.10-15 figure was just a guesstimate).

Now the point is, are we willing to pay for it? Or would we rather live with the biased reporting we have now?

Taking this further:
The current situation also seems to suggest that, biased reporting could be hurting our safety. If companies knew that they can't get away from the media, it would mean a big erosion of their goodwill/reputation. Companies spend huge amounts to build those and it would probably become financially unviable for them to get away from poorer safety standards.

I am not saying that VW has had poor standards. We really don't seem to know enough as yet. Just that, if companies knew that there wasn't a simple enough way to get away, they would take more care .Good media as a watchdog ,is probably the most effective tool. This concept applies to various spheres of our life.

Even though important, I think what I am saying here may be getting away from the core of the thread. So I'll stop now.
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Old 20th February 2012, 01:06   #248
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

VW has been having lots of QC issues both in EU and US in the last two years. They had issued major recalls due to critical flaws that could cause fire. I wonder if those faulty parts are somehow finding their way to India!
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Old 20th February 2012, 09:32   #249
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

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Originally Posted by Zed View Post
Am curious if your comment is based on any precedent where VW tried to hush things up ? If the answer is yes - you certainly have a reason to be concerned. If not, well I really cannot understand why so many posts seem to suggest that VW will not provide a fair assessment of what went wrong.

Im certainly not here to defend VW or anyone else for that matter & will reserve my comments until the investigation is complete. Like everybody else on this forum, my thoughts are with the family of the departed soul.
I think these comments come from the fact that in the past almost every car company has tried to hush up flaws in their vehicles, be they Japanese, German or American. Almost invariably the recalls have been late and almost forced upon them.

However, I do feel that VW need to be involved in the post mortem of the fire as their engineers know the vehicle best.

My thoughts to the family of the departed. I hope they are coming to terms with their loss.
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Old 20th February 2012, 10:51   #250
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

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Originally Posted by foosa View Post
VW has been having lots of QC issues both in EU and US in the last two years. They had issued major recalls due to critical flaws that could cause fire. I wonder if those faulty parts are somehow finding their way to India!
I must say its taking quite an amount of time on the part of VW to come out with their findings. At this rate one might think that it would need a Sherlock Holmes to get to the bottom of this. All Vento owners would be praying hard that this inquiry by VW is truly impartial and not an attempt to cover up any obvious/undiscovered flaws in the product. Specially when this can be a matter of life and death.

Meanwhile I am thinking of getting a small fire extinguisher for the car for my own safety. I know I am bordering on the paranoid here but perhaps better safe than sorry till there is a categorical statement from VW and/or authorities on this incident.
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Old 20th February 2012, 14:00   #251
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

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I think these comments come from the fact that in the past almost every car company has tried to hush up flaws in their vehicles, be they Japanese, German or American.
Is there a specific incident that you are aware of which involved the brand we are now discussing, where there was an attempt to hush up flaws? Im not stating for sure that there arent - just that im ignorant, so do share with the forum if you have credible information to the contrary.

On the other hand instances of vehicle recalls have been quite frequent. Some of these were triggered by customer incidents, but others were initiated by OEMs on the basis of internal reviews \ audits zeroing in on potential failures related to process and\or design.
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Old 20th February 2012, 14:18   #252
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

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Originally Posted by Zed View Post
Is there a specific incident that you are aware of which involved the brand we are now discussing, where there was an attempt to hush up flaws? Im not stating for sure that there arent - just that im ignorant, so do share with the forum if you have credible information to the contrary.

On the other hand instances of vehicle recalls have been quite frequent. Some of these were triggered by customer incidents, but others were initiated by OEMs on the basis of internal reviews \ audits zeroing in on potential failures related to process and\or design.
No, I do not know of any specific incident regarding VW. I was just stating in general that people are apprehensive given how most, if not all, car companies have behaved in the past regarding various flaws and attempts to cover them up or quietly fix it without publicity.

Of late, with the power of social media, the attempts to cover it up have been less, but still.

I do not doubt that OEM's are also triggering reviews when they find flaws and I commend them for that.
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Old 20th February 2012, 17:52   #253
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

Hello,

Car is at the VW factory in Chakan.

We can now lock this thread. Thin chance of the "truth" coming out of the factory especially given VW's media relations and financial might.

How do the life insurance and motor insurance policies work here? They should have access to the vehicle? Is there an ombudsman?

Thank you
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Old 20th February 2012, 18:35   #254
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

Please understand that there is nothing wrong with manufacturer investigating the cause of the accident or fatal malfunction. This is required for prevention of such incidents in future.

In any such tragic accidents/malfunction, first level of investigation should be done by state authority (government or government appointed body). Once the investigation is over, vehicle custody can be handed over to manufacturer. In certain cases, when the investigation requires very specialised knowledge, manufacturer can be involved in initial investigation. For example, in Aircraft crash investigation, manufacturers are often involved in understanding the contents of Flight Data Recorder.

In this case, car was given to VW only after RTO has completed their investigation. It is a different question that whether RTO is competent enough to do this investigation. But we can't blame VW for government's perceived inability to do the investigation. So let's stop bashing VW for doing their own investigation.

Last edited by radek : 20th February 2012 at 18:47. Reason: corrected typo
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Old 20th February 2012, 20:22   #255
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Default Re: Volkswagen Vento catches fire. Owner dies from burn injuries

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So let's stop bashing VW for doing their own investigation.
Pretty much agree with what you say, Radek. However the bashing of VW may more be based on their (shall we call it) "media relations".
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