Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th February 2012, 21:55   #46
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,019
Thanked: 526 Times
Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Extremely sad for the life lost. May the soul RIP. But this should not sent wrong message that wearing seat belts can cause deaths in such incidents. In these type of horrific incidents the occupants freeze for moments with fear. They may become incapable of doing simple acts like un buckling a seatbelt or opening a door. Also it is a fact that it may become difficult even for a third person to unbuckle the seatbelts under the fear of a blast or explosion.No way a fire incident can cause a seat belt buckle to malfunction.
poloman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2012, 22:07   #47
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 120
Thanked: 41 Times
Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
Extremely sad for the life lost. May the soul RIP. But this should not sent wrong message that wearing seat belts can cause deaths in such incidents. In these type of horrific incidents the occupants freeze for moments with fear. They may become incapable of doing simple acts like un buckling a seatbelt or opening a door. Also it is a fact that it may become difficult even for a third person to unbuckle the seatbelts under the fear of a blast or explosion.No way a fire incident can cause a seat belt buckle to malfunction.
Thanks for your concern.Though I agree with your observation, albeit partly, the observation that the third person may find it difficult to unbuckle the seat belt is wrong. Even in press report, it's mentioned that the person had to be evacuated only after cutting the belts & NOT unbuckling. Certainly, cutting belt is more time consuming than unbuckling them & hence the fear of explosion for third person is much more as the time passes by while fire is still raging.

P.S.: I haven't stopped using seat belts, even during short city drives, but already put a cutter in glove box to be on the safer side. Plan a small hammer as well.
nawalsingal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2012, 22:30   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vizag
Posts: 1,986
Thanked: 1,343 Times
Default Re: Accidents : Vehicles catching fire in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by nawalsingal View Post
So while having faith in VW is OK, always better to be cautious.
Well said. Don't know why some carowners think their brands are above break-downs / malfunctions? At the end of the day, any machine is a machine. A motley collection of thousands of parts. Anything can go wrong anytime. This kinda blind faith is not good. It is better to be prepared than be sorry.
pgsagar is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2012, 23:18   #49
Senior - BHPian
 
souravc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 1,088
Thanked: 427 Times
Default Re: Accidents : Vehicles catching fire in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by nawalsingal View Post
You better believe this. I also own a POLO & thought so, but the fellow, driving Vento happened to be a relative of mine & he died today due to burns. The doors/ belts got jammed & this has been confirmed by those who rescued the man by breaking the windshield & cutting the belts & not by opening the doors & belts. So while having faith in VW is OK, always better to be cautious.
That's horrendous, my condolences Nawal . Loss of life due to fault of a car is gut wrenching !
Its not about blind faith , one does not pay 11 lakhs to get killed - faith does not help. I am trying to find a logical answer instead of just hysteria.
I don't know whether the locks in a Polo and Vento are similar but if a Vento was to catch fire from the inside while the door is locked , the window anyways has to be broken to release the person unless (a) the cause of the fire is an impact which prompts the ECU to unlock the door (b) the person inside unlocks the door .. if the auto lock is enabled then opening any of the doors from the inside unlocks all the doors . Thus given the above , it does not prove that the car locks got jammed due to the fire . The reason that I am re-iterating this is because there has been so many pages of discussion on the Vento thread on why the door remains always unlocked from inside - this was one of our biggest grouse against the car!

As far as seat belts are concerned , those are mechanical parts where the plastic may melt due to heat else I can't find a good enough reason why it should jam up ! If it jams up in Vento , it can jam up in any car !

VW PR has muscle enough to hush up the entire matter. I guess its better that we try to figure out through informed discussion and collective wisdom - the global statements on brand loyalty, belief and faith though are zero value add to anyone's precious time

Last edited by souravc : 6th February 2012 at 23:20.
souravc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 00:33   #50
Senior - BHPian
 
souravc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 1,088
Thanked: 427 Times
Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by nawalsingal View Post
P.S. Please suggest the way forward to deal with VW? Shall be going for the funeral tomorrow & share more details of the incident.
To turn the screws on VW , I think for starters a FIR should be lodged with the local police . Its mentioned that the car is in the possession of VW , is it correct? Ideally it should be the police who should impound the car pending further investigation - given the most unfortunate demise, police should have got involved and any investigation by the company should have been under the police's supervision to prevent any hush up !
souravc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 01:25   #51
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,316
Thanked: 233 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman
Extremely sad for the life lost. May the soul RIP. But this should not sent wrong message that wearing seat belts can cause deaths in such incidents. In these type of horrific incidents the occupants freeze for moments with fear. They may become incapable of doing simple acts like un buckling a seatbelt or opening a door. Also it is a fact that it may become difficult even for a third person to unbuckle the seatbelts under the fear of a blast or explosion.No way a fire incident can cause a seat belt buckle to malfunction.
Of course it can, the pre tensioners can pull really hard on the person and get stuck in that position if some electronics are affected.

This happened to me once when i was in an alfa romeo in the uk. Although there was nothing wrong with the car, no fire no nothing but the seat belt started pulling on me fiercely. Thank god i was not driving. The person who was driving had his seat belt acting normally but mine was pulling fiercely on me and then after a minute or so the buckle on the pillar broke and we had a broken seat belt.

The problem in this case was just a faulty sensor.
Mustang.101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 08:55   #52
njh
BHPian
 
njh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Poona
Posts: 32
Thanked: Once
Default Re: Accidents : Vehicles catching fire in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc View Post
The doors of a Vento never lock from the inside, its always unlocked for the occupants of the car . The locked situation is only applicable for those who are trying to open the door from the outside . In case of an accident situation the ECU senses an impact and unlocks the door so that it can be opened from the outside and the occupants can be rescued.

While the car catching fire is of extreme concern to al of us ( hope VW comes out with the complete truth ) , I don't believe the fact the doors locked for the driver or the seat belts jammed !
I agree with you. There is no reason at all for the doors or seatbelts to be locked or jammed. The driver of this car must have been in such a state of panic that he couldnt get to the release button of the belt in time. As for the doors, I'm not at all convinced that they were locked after the accident occured, unless the driver by accident hit the lock button on the door, which happens to be very close to the lever.
It is terrible shame that such a tragedy had occured in a VW car.
I've owned 3 Passats before and I currently own the latest Passat and touch wood I've had no problem at all.
njh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 09:39   #53
Team-BHP Support
 
moralfibre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MH-12
Posts: 6,625
Thanked: 6,148 Times
Default Re: Accidents : Vehicles catching fire in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
Also the article said that the doors got automatically locked out which should not have been the case in case of emergency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
2. Doors automatically locked themselves

Quote:
Originally Posted by nawalsingal View Post
You better believe this. I also own a POLO & thought so, but the fellow, driving Vento happened to be a relative of mine & he died today due to burns. The doors/ belts got jammed & this has been confirmed by those who rescued the man by breaking the windshield & cutting the belts & not by opening the doors & belts. So while having faith in VW is OK, always better to be cautious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc View Post
I don't know whether the locks in a Polo and Vento are similar but if a Vento was to catch fire from the inside while the door is locked , ...
nawalsingal, please accept my heartfelt condolences.

Coming back to the topic of doors getting auto-locked and not having a manual override feature:

Please see the picture I posted in #193. The door of the Vento is "Open". I doubt the windscreen breaking + "seatbelt cut" rescue theory posted by many here via the media. If a car is engulfed in flames, it is going to be mighty difficult for any person to jump on the bonnet, break the windscreen. Climb into the cabin from the front (saving himself from the cuts through a shattered glass) and cut / undo the seatbelts to rescue a person. But, I could be wrong in the way the rescue operation was carried out. I wasn't present there but I'll ask the person who took the picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
This is something that was bound to happen with locks that do not have a manual override feature. In the event of a fire (as in this case), it is possible that a short circuit would have caused the ECU to sense an "accident situation" and make the doors lock (as the ECU does in the case of an accident). However, not being able to open the doors manually is a serious safety issue at times like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc View Post
The doors of a Vento never lock from the inside, its always unlocked for the occupants of the car . The locked situation is only applicable for those who are trying to open the door from the outside . In case of an accident situation the ECU senses an impact and unlocks the door so that it can be opened from the outside and the occupants can be rescued.
Veyronsupersport, I guess what you wrote is exactly opposite to what happens in reality. In an accident situation, the doors of all cars unlock automatically and even if the don't, read ajmat's post below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Even though the doors lock, if you tug at the door handle, the lock disengages
If you want to test the manual unlock override feature of your car:

- Lock all doors with one person seated inside.
- Disconnect the battery.
- Try to manually open the door from inside. Chances are that it will open.
- Try the same on doors that have child lock enabled. The outcome of this is something I am not sure of.

There is a complete thread for fire extinguishers here - (Fire Extinguisher in a car)Link.

Last edited by moralfibre : 7th February 2012 at 09:41.
moralfibre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 10:45   #54
Senior - BHPian
 
amtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai - The city of Sea Link!!!
Posts: 2,782
Thanked: 342 Times
Default Re: Accidents : Vehicles catching fire in India

Guys, it is virtually not possible for everyone to keep a hammer in the car.

1. For Safety reasons
2. You should be quick to find it in case of emergencies.

Best thing would be to remove the head restraint and use the innter adjuster rods (fixed with headrest) to break the glass.
amtak is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 12:03   #55
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,019
Thanked: 526 Times
Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
Of course it can, the pre tensioners can pull really hard on the person and get stuck in that position if some electronics are affected.

This happened to me once when i was in an alfa romeo in the uk. Although there was nothing wrong with the car, no fire no nothing but the seat belt started pulling on me fiercely. Thank god i was not driving. The person who was driving had his seat belt acting normally but mine was pulling fiercely on me and then after a minute or so the buckle on the pillar broke and we had a broken seat belt.

The problem in this case was just a faulty sensor.
Mustang, I was specifically referring to the seat belt buckle. Even if the pretensioner is fired, you would be tightly held only for a few seconds and gradually it will loosen up. In any case you should be able to unlock the seat buckle which is a simple mehcanical lock.
poloman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 12:14   #56
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,316
Thanked: 233 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman
Mustang, I was specifically referring to the seat belt buckle. Even if the pretensioner is fired, you would be tightly held only for a few seconds and gradually it will loosen up. In any case you should be able to unlock the seat buckle which is a simple mehcanical lock.
What if the plastic on the lock melted because of the heat and then it blocked the working of the mechanical lock.

And yea the thing that happened with me was not for a few seconds but continuously for a minute until the hinges on the pillar broke.
Mustang.101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 12:20   #57
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,019
Thanked: 526 Times
Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
What if the plastic on the lock melted because of the heat and then it blocked the working of the mechanical lock.

And yea the thing that happened with me was not for a few seconds but continuously for a minute until the hinges on the pillar broke.
If that much heat which can melt a high grade plastic part, makes way to the cabin, the occupants would have succumbed much earlier than this to happen.
poloman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 12:49   #58
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,316
Thanked: 233 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman
If that much heat which can melt a high grade plastic part, makes way to the cabin, the occupants would have succumbed much earlier than this to happen.
First of all the seat belt buckles in cars are not high grade plastic parts, in fact they are one of the low grade plastics. You could even cause melting with a cig lighter.

Secondly, what if the heat was localized, say that the carpet underneath the buckle or the lower part of the seat caught fire then it could melt the plastic or cause it to malfunction.
Mustang.101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 13:35   #59
BHPian
 
nanduchitnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 494
Thanked: 295 Times
Default Re: Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by nawalsingal View Post
Thanks for your concern.
This is so very sad and most unacceptable.

For Gods sake we talking about VW German technology car.

Mods at Team BHP will show you the way forward to deal with VW.

I hope they dont stonewall the way Skoda does.

R.I.P.

Now way man !
nanduchitnis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 13:45   #60
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 120
Thanked: 41 Times
Default Re: Accidents : Vehicles catching fire in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc View Post
That's horrendous, my condolences Nawal . Loss of life due to fault of a car is gut wrenching !


VW PR has muscle enough to hush up the entire matter. I guess its better that we try to figure out through informed discussion and collective wisdom - the global statements on brand loyalty, belief and faith though are zero value add to anyone's precious time
Thanks for your condolences mate. However, rest assured that VW won't be allowed to hush up the matter. We'll see that the incdent is brought to logical conclusion. We also have a wonderful community of Team BHP for deciding the best way forward. Just back from funeral & the scene there was indeed heart wrenching. The guy had two teenage sons, still studying & the entire family was inconsolable.

Hope VW takes the matter seriously, investigates thoroughly & takes necessary measures so that such mishaps can be prevented in future & no one looses his loved ones in such a ghastly manner..
nawalsingal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Skoda Laura catches fire, Disables owner. EDIT: Manufacturer response added - vineetkr Technical Stuff 86 24th October 2014 21:15
Honda Civic catches Fire on Dwarka Underpass. Owner Dies! n.devdath The Indian Car Scene 94 1st July 2013 19:00
Owner asks for Mercedes after parked Nano catches fire. EDIT : One more on page 5! lambuhere1 Street Experiences 87 28th February 2013 18:08
Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies Y@SH The Indian Car Scene 108 4th February 2013 18:37


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:22.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks