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Old 12th February 2012, 15:40   #31
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Arrow Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

I Think in our country a car stripped of all safety features proves to be a win win situation for all. For the car manufacturer the prices come down and for the buyer the buying cost is that much more affordable. The purpose of a car is just to ply you from one place to another and thats a full stop to the purpose.
why is it that we see educated car owners driving a fully loaded safe car with an infant in the front seat. i am sure the safety features on the car were unwanted during the purchase and it was more to do with the other hi-fi features.
Talk of seat belts, how many people consider it as uncomfort and latch on to it whenever they see a traffic cop around.
So it that the car manufacturers are to be blammed to shred the safety features while marketing the cars.
i think either of the parties are to be blammed. there needs to be more education and likewise stricter laws and their enforcement. the demand for safety needs to be stressed from the buyers first rather than sellers.

Last edited by mahen_narang : 12th February 2012 at 15:41. Reason: spelling mistakes
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Old 12th February 2012, 18:36   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajtheindian

Shankar,
There is a difference in enforcing the law "wear seat belt while driving" and mandating the manufacture to provide seat beats for all the passengers. I think the first step is to mandate the features in vehicles, so that it gives the minority, who obey the law, and want a safe drive can make use of these features with out paying more money to get the top end of the range.
Agreed. On account of the government having mandated the wearing of seat belts while driving, all manufacturers of all sorts of road going vehicles are now required to provide these simple things. The same way, if the government mandates the rest of the safety features to be available on all cars regardless of variant, it may well help those who wish to be safe while on the roads. Fact is that these safety features can no longer be considered as luxury items and we Indians would do well to believe that! Only this way, over the course of the next 5 - 7years will the overall safety aspect permeate our sub-conscious as a race. Maybe that is exaggerating but drastic situations call for drastic measures and we are good at listening to tough talk and a bit of 'danda' because otherwise we are generally quite un-amenable to discipline!
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Old 13th February 2012, 23:35   #33
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

Yes, like the Emission norms, the safety features should be made standard.

When I bought my Punto last year, I first started thinking of the base variant. However, started thinking about the safety features, I choose the Emotion and left the E pack as I really was not able to see the cost of 7L+ on road for car! But, ever since my purchase I regretted that I should have bought the E-pack which also had the Air bags along with the ABS.
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Old 14th February 2012, 00:17   #34
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

You will never be safe in any car, whatever price range, in this country, due to existing driving conditions. End of story.

There are number of threads to prove this point.

It is not the fault of the manufacturer. It is/was your fault, my fault, and all others who live here.
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Old 14th February 2012, 12:27   #35
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cents View Post
But I have a more basic question: is it necessary to expect the same safety factors in India as it is held in Europe? The average speed of vehicles in Europe must be above 80, the same in India, I guess, should be around 40! My point is not that we can compromise on safety on account of the average speed, or traffic manners, just that the type of safety factors we concentrate on need not be the same as it is elsewhere. For instance, the structure, thickness of sheet metal used and a dual rate brake assist is far more important to me than ABS.
It is not the average speed but the top speed that needs to be considered. Infact in Indian conditions the chances of accident are not only greater due to the environmental conditions (roads, traffic etc.) but also in case of an accident the chances of injury are greater due to there being almost no run off areas on highway sides and inproper barriers as well.

So infact compared to Europe we would be well advised to actually keep the Euro NCAP standards itself as our minimum acceptable standards.

In India many MBA institutes follow the CAT exam scores for an exam held by IIM Entrance. Similarly it is not really required that we have a seperate crash test program different from that of the Euro NCAP but we can take any of the 2-3 standards available and adopt them for India.

Yes manufacturers will protest to that as it will prevent them from skimping on the build to meet India price points.

In India it is rare for the full safety kit version to sell even half as well as the one that is bare bones (refering to the safety kit rather than the feature list). So finally from a business point of view unless the govt mandates a specific safety standard this aspect will not improve out here. But as mentioned above it is quite simple they just have to accept one or both of the top 2 widely followed crash test as acceptable out here and have the manufacurere mention that standard as per varients that they sell out here.
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Old 14th February 2012, 13:30   #36
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

I think most of the fault lies with the Govt. They need to spell out a minimum safety standard which will automatically make the manufacturers to meet them. Same for emission.

This will provide us with cars that are safe. Whether people will really make use of them is up to them (wearing seat belts for ex)
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Old 14th February 2012, 14:00   #37
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

Here is a different thought.

Why should the government and manufacturers care about safety?
How much do we care about it when we drive around daily? Two-wheelers, three-wheelers, four-wheelers, multi axel vehicles drive without a scant regard to anyone's and their own safety. Beyond a point, however "safe", crash-worthy a vehicle is, it wont be adequate to save lives.

By no means I am advocating cars with dubious safety certifications. I am just wondering about the "safe enough" point.

Last edited by dot : 14th February 2012 at 14:01.
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Old 14th February 2012, 14:17   #38
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
I think most of the fault lies with the Govt. They need to spell out a minimum safety standard which will automatically make the manufacturers to meet them. Same for emission.

This will provide us with cars that are safe. Whether people will really make use of them is up to them (wearing seat belts for ex)
A minimum safety standard that cuts across segment does sound like a good proposition - practicality aside.

Emissions - We already have a system in place in India so am not sure what you are referring to.

I completely disagree with the closing statement. There is no way we can improve the road safety if we adopt an open ended approach. What we need is better enforcement to ensure that there is compliance on the part of the end user - not just pertaining to safety but traffic rules and regulations.
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Old 14th February 2012, 15:31   #39
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

What good would minimum safety standard do if users don't change their mindset?

A simple case of point - Manufacturers are required to get their vehicles tested by ARAI before publishing FE. Yet how many of us can actually claim that we get the same FE on our cars as published by manufacturer? Isn't driving habits / traffic / road conditions a factor that determine our FE?

Using this same analogy even if the manufacturers made the minimum safety requirements available as part of car would it alter the way our driving habits change? How many truckers or cabs have been seeing wearing seat belts even if it is rigidly enforced? How many bikers are seen riding always with a helmet? Heck how many times have we not (knowingly or unknowingly) just drove off to run an errand without seat belts?

Many of us (if not all) have traveled to developed (or emerging) countries. How many times have we heard a car honking or even jumping lanes at the drop of a hat? How many times have you seen a car traveling in opposite direction in the same lane especially on national highways?

Bottomline is we need to change in order to expect manufacturers / govt. to change
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Old 14th February 2012, 15:51   #40
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arup.misra View Post
What good would minimum safety standard do if users don't change their mindset?
Completely agree with the viewpoint. In a country where a simple feature such as a left side rear view mirror is still an optional component, ABS and Air Bags are still a far cry from being made mandatory.

And it stems from the very fact that (a) getting a license is easy and (b) the ease of getting a license makes many believe that all that they do in the road is great, and all rules are just that, rules, and compliance is not necessary.

I agree with Arup that driver education and belief on common principles of decency (it is not just the driver's safety but everyone else on the road and in the car) are the key components to an effective safety strategy and common minimum guidelines for safety components.
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Old 14th February 2012, 15:59   #41
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

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Originally Posted by one-77 View Post
Sadly we're a nation that cares only about "kitna milta hai?" (Please excuse my Hindi)
Safety, emissions, power, and even styling are not priorities for most Indians, and manufacturers will always take advantage of this fact.
I disagree. Look at the Nano, great fuel efficency and low price, but did not sell well due to safety factors. I personally feel the Indian customer is interested in Value for Money. Of course, most Indians are not very well to do, and therefore budget is a constraint, but Indians are definitely brand conscious, and are looking for the right blend of comfort, efficency, maintainence costs, and performance.

Indian manufacturers are trying to cut costs and maximize profits, while ARAI and the government could'nt care less.

As others have pointed out, its not just the cars designed for India, even models sold elsewhere are not sold with the same safety features in India, for instance, not providing ORVM's on both sides, or one reverse bulb, or no ABS or Airbags (even as options), thinner tyres, cheaper plastics, thinner metal. Its the reason that the neighbouring countries are willing to buy reconditioned cars from the West or Japan, but won't touch Indian cars, even though the brand new Indian cars are cheaper than the secondhand Jap cars.
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Old 14th February 2012, 16:35   #42
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

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Originally Posted by v.anand View Post
Among the cars mentioned here is my opinion.

Ford Figo - Sold in Europe as previous generation Fiesta. The version with Airbag, ABS must be relatively safer and confirm to those norms.
Just made a visual comparison between Figo and the previous Gen Fiesta on which it is based. I may be completely wrong in my assumptions since it's only visual and not scientific.

1. The Figo's Front(Bonnet) is a good couple of inches Shorter. Could be the reason for the minimal space between Radiator and Bumper in Figo
2. The area circled near the ORVM has solid metal in Fiesta, wheras in Figo it's plastic which will definitely weaken the A-pillar.
3. The roof starts immediately after the windows in Figo, wheras Fiesta has about 1 inch of metal thereby strengthening the frame.
Since the wheelbase of both are same i've used the wheel axle as reference point for calibration
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Old 14th February 2012, 17:25   #43
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

^^@Daewood, you are comparing the Indian Fiesta with Figo.

I was mentioning the European Pre-gen Fiesta hatch. Other than the looks of face and back marginally, they share the same profile to the T. Bumpers are shortened in the Indian Figo to the extent of no protrution at all, otherwise no physical viewable structure change from the sideways.

The plastic you mentioned on the A and B pillars are merely claddings on top of metal. They are not structural members on which the roof rests. You take a look at VW Polo, it looks very much similar.
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Old 14th February 2012, 18:15   #44
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

Actually, it is a simple enough demand and supply rule. People in India want creature comforts and not safety features. Skoda which had all its variants of the Fabia come with 2 airbags in Generation 1 switched gears. In Generation 2, the base model only came with driver airbag and now in the Gen 2 refresh, the base model has no airbags at all but does have automatic windows at the back.

Given that Indian cars in metros crawl through the traffic, I guess there are people who think getting a car with airbags is an utter waste. Suzuki too now offers airbags on the A-star Zxi as an option only; earlier it was part of the package.

Unless there is a major overhaul of rules, the car manufacturers are going to sit tight. I personally feel, it is not the cars in India which need to improve in terms of safety but the drivers themselves. The driving test when I gave it in India back in 1998 was a joke. A blind man would have passed it in a canter.
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Old 14th February 2012, 20:39   #45
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Default Re: Crash Safety - Are Figo, Eon, Etios, Liva & Brio Safe Enough?

I believe that the cars mentioned in the opening post will be as safe/unsafe as other hatches available in India. Most cars sold in India (except CBUs and imports) will be different from the ones sold in other countries. They will mostly be lacking safety features.
There are two highly unlikely ways of stopping this:
1. Indian govt. should clearly state the essential features required in a car across all models and it should include safety features as well.
2. People should stop buying cars with different configurations (for safety features) for cars sold in India and other countries. We should also stay away from "Made for India" cars.
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