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Old 10th July 2012, 23:39   #136
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
the Jazz with the 1.5litre engine is one of the best sporting hatchbacks in the west. We unfortunately are stuck with the 1.2 and with a squishy suspension tune.

with the proper suspension and engine, the car is a fire cracker.
But the steering doesn't exactly weigh up at speeds. It's still light and best for city driving, I believe.

In short, the steering doesn't inspire the confidence required for it to be considered a hot hatch. It isn't quite as direct as you'd want it to be too. In comparison, the Punto's and Figo's steering-wheels are benchmarks IMO. Even the Polo/Fabia have a more positive steering feel than the Jazz's.

It can be a fun car with the City's engine, and even in its current state of tune, the 1.2 is no slouch once you get the RPM needle beyond the 3k mark and towards the business-end of the tacho. You'll be surprised the manner in which it picks up speed. Power delivery is linear.

But the suspension as you said is a little soft and steering needs work. The 'box is a bit notchy too and doesn't slot in positively. 2nd gear is a pain in the behind, in particular.

For the Jazz to be a truly fun car and a proper hot-hatch, it needs work.
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Old 11th July 2012, 17:12   #137
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

Even in Europe where we do find some of the hot versions of the hatches (like the Fiesta S1600, Swift Sport) , these have always sold in relatively much lower numbers than their bread-and-butter counterparts. Yet it does not deter the manufacturers from offerring them.

Wonder why the equation changes when they bring these cars to India.
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Old 11th July 2012, 17:24   #138
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

Pardon my ignorance, but do we have any minimum criterion for a hatch to be branded a Hot Hatch? Like minimum cc, minimum BHP, minimum top speed etc.

I googled and found that >150BHP can be called as a Hot hatch. There is also another category called the Warm Hatch with power ranging from 100 to 150BHP. Experts please shed some light.
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Old 11th July 2012, 17:49   #139
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

no criteria because its based primary on subjective factors about how exciting the car is. There are plenty of hatchbacks with huge horsepower that are boring because they don't fizz and pop despite all the power, and there are hatchbacks that are extremely humble in specification but cause their drivers to have massive adrenaline overdose because they are thrilling to drive.

two of the greatest hot hatchbacks of all time, the 205GTi and the 106 Rallye had only 106hp but are none the less amongst the greatest drivers cars every made.
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Old 11th July 2012, 19:27   #140
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
no criteria because its based primary on subjective factors about how exciting the car is. There are plenty of hatchbacks with huge horsepower that are boring because they don't fizz and pop despite all the power, and there are hatchbacks that are extremely humble in specification but cause their drivers to have massive adrenaline overdose because they are thrilling to drive.
Very true. Some of the most unassuming things can surprise you on the occasion.

I remember getting that gush of 'wow' in a little Suzuki Kizashi that I got to drive briefly, a couple of years ago. This (underrated and underpowered) car had the heart and feet of a mountain goat. She railed like a roller-coaster, simply refusing to give.

A friend used to own a 2003(/4) Nissan Sentra SE-R, which was an absolute blast. Nothing much to look at (but then which Nissan is), it drove like an angry go-cart on a mission. He gave it up after it started bleeding his pocket from its constant niggles, but that was some car.

Last edited by NinadJoshi : 11th July 2012 at 19:29.
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Old 11th July 2012, 19:30   #141
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

you should have driven the first generation 1991 Sentra SE-R. It had just 140hp but it was one of the most spectaculars drivers cars of its time. Believe me, the SE-Rs never reached those heights. so if you were impressed by the 2003, you should find a 1991 if you can.
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Old 14th July 2012, 16:07   #142
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

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Correction. First version pulsar 150 was only 11.8 bhp with 1.08kg of torque. It was bench marked against the cbz which itself was 12.x odd bhp. Hope you can laugh harder now
Yes, I know that , that's why I stated the output was 13.5PS at the time of incident , circa 2007-8 with the 3rd variant of DTSI series that was in production then.
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Old 16th July 2012, 00:04   #143
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Cars like Ford Focus RS,Golf GTI,Vauxhall Astra VXR are benchmarks! But in India a 150bhp 1.6L would be a start or a turbocharged 1.4L petrol on a Swift or Punto would be a good package! How was the Palio 1.6? Never drove it.
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Old 19th May 2015, 20:47   #144
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

A lot has changed since the discussion on this topic ended, but I had an itch to add my opinion on the current scenario.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
There is NO market.
I agree that the number of failures far outnumber the successes BUT I would disagree and say there IS a market. A hot hatch has to have a lot more things going for it to succeed than its sedate sibling. The number of VW GT twins on the TBhp are a testimony to this fact.

Quote:
Did the Getz CRDi?
I don't think even Getz sold that well, let alone the CRDI variant.

Quote:
Diesel Hot hatches are more realistic than a petrol. Reason : High power diesels still offer good fuel economy. BTW, the Polo R Cup car running a remapped version of the Vento 1.6L diesel @ 130 BHP does 0 - 100 in 8 seconds. And with slicks, it laps the circuit within 4 seconds of a Porsche Boxster. How much more performance you do want?
No two ways about it. Had VW launched GT twins along with the three pot Polo's, story might have been different.

Today, Maruti with its Swift and Hyundai with Grand i10 and Elite i20 have nothing to lose even if their diesel hot hatch versions bomb in the market, which going by VW's success of GT twins, won't. Swift/Dzire with a 90 PS version, Grand i10/Xcent with i20's 1.4 CRDi mill and Elite with Verna's 1.6 CRDi powerhouse isn't asking too much, according to me. Fuel efficiency too won't be a problem here. Marketing/Positioning might be, I am a noob in that department. Learned members of the forum can correct me here.
Add, if possible, all wheel discs, fatter tyres, sweeter alloys, body kits and electronics, and Heck! Maruti and Hyundai can introduce their own performance line like Merc's AMG and BMW's M!

So, from an enthusiast's perspective, if he goes bald from scratching his head too much, he should be forgiven!

Last edited by ampere : 19th May 2015 at 20:58. Reason: Fixed a minor typo.
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Old 20th May 2015, 11:10   #145
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

May be VW and others are not yet in the position to bring us true Hot Hatches.

But what about companies like Hyundai. It can easily bring the "VELOSTER".
It is perhaps the best looking Hyundai, Powerful enough and I am sure it will find takers.

Its good for its Brand Image also.

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Old 20th May 2015, 12:00   #146
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

I think hot hatches in a mileage centrist market like India can only be in the diesel segment which even with a 110 bhp and 28 kgm torque avatar of a 1.5 liter engine would give a 12 - 14 kmpl in the city.

A turbo charged petrol churning out these numbers with lesser torque obviously would touch single digit numbers from the mileage point of view and thus would never be mass number crunching sellers.
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Old 20th May 2015, 12:31   #147
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

I am sure the people who will buy these cars wont have their priorities set on maximum Fuel efficiency.

Instead they will focus more on Driving pleasure, Handling, Engine, The Sheer EXCITEMENT of owning and driving these cars.

We have enough fuel-efficient cars on our roads. If people truly want that they can go ahead with that and buy those. Nobody's stopping them.
But people like us would at-least like some " Enthusiastic "options .
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