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Old 10th July 2012, 01:14   #121
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

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Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
The fabia and Polo 1.6 aren't really "hot". They are adequate. 1.2 engines are a bit underpowered. Its a pity we haven't seen a single hot hatch in india. A Fabia Diesel vRS with at least a 150 bhp should be do-able
In my opinion, the Only Truly real Hot Hatch launched in India was Chevy SRV. Damn that vehicle failed and another attempt by Honda to sell Jazz at Jazzy price failed. One was really ahead of its times (Launched in time when hatches were supposed to be sub 5L Category) and other went because of Lack of diesel and little higher pricing. Looking at today's Swift and i20 pricing now I know why honda priced that able car that way.

Not surprising that manufacturers should are shying away for launching true hot Hatches seeing two very good cars going that way.
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Old 10th July 2012, 01:27   #122
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...another attempt by Honda to sell Jazz at Jazzy price failed. One was really ahead of its times (Launched in time when hatches were supposed to be sub 5L Category) and other went because of Lack of diesel and little higher pricing.
Are you sure about Jazz being a hot hatch. It is a very lethargic car at low speeds to say the least. Even if they plonked City's engine, it would have become 'adequate' but definitely not Hot hatch.
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Old 10th July 2012, 03:51   #123
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

With the ever increasing petrol price I am sure these hot hatches will end up a market dud. But to concentrate on a niche market, spending crores of rupees in development may not be worth the manufacturer's while. They want to make engines for the masses as it is profitable.

^^ I would not call the SRV a hot hatch. It had a weird way of shifting gears and below par pick up. Its like you are giving it all you got but the car refuses to sprint, instead its lazy and takes its own sweet time to move along.

Cheers!
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Old 10th July 2012, 07:08   #124
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

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Are you sure about Jazz being a hot hatch. It is a very lethargic car at low speeds to say the least. Even if they plonked City's engine, it would have become 'adequate' but definitely not Hot hatch.
the Jazz with the 1.5litre engine is one of the best sporting hatchbacks in the west. We unfortunately are stuck with the 1.2 and with a squishy suspension tune.

with the proper suspension and engine, the car is a fire cracker.
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Old 10th July 2012, 08:14   #125
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

To me a perfect hot hatch would be the Ford Figo with the Ford Fiesta's 1.6 L engine!
The Figo already has a very sorted out suspension and steering setup. So the dynamics has already been taken care of, now the Fiesta's 1.6 L engine is well known for its rev happy nature. So this could be a potent combo.
But if breaking the small car definition by exceeding the 1.2L is Ford's concern, we can then suggest them the 1.5 L diesel from the new global Fiesta, which would still stay within small car definition and find more takers as well, as it is Diesel.
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Old 10th July 2012, 08:57   #126
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

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Lol. I fell off my hypothetical chair the first time I heard someone say a 150cc bike ( Pulsar , was around 13.5hp at the time) is too powerful ! I didn't want to be blamed for their deaths following a cardiac arrest, so I didn't mention the 150bhp+ superbikes !
Correction. First version pulsar 150 was only 11.8 bhp with 1.08kg of torque. It was bench marked against the cbz which itself was 12.x odd bhp. Hope you can laugh harder now
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Old 10th July 2012, 10:18   #127
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

I dont think there is a market for petrol hot hatches in india like in developed nations, but there is definitely market for powerful diesel hatchbacks like Polo, fabia 1.6 tdi, Punto 1.6 mjd, etc. if this engine option is offered at all the variants with decent safety features (at least abs) and not just the top end.

I dont think above mentioned cars should cost more than 9L considering their petrol 1.6 variants cost less than 7L which are designed for simillar kind of performance. I think auto companies try to milk additional 2-3L from customers who want powerful engines by forcing them to buy their so called sedans like ventos, rapids, etc.

Although our road, traffic conditions are not favourable for high speed driving, there are roads where we can enjoy our powerful cars especially in non peak traffic hours. Afterall, a lot of people enjoy their powerful sedans on our roads. So, this cant be a problem. What we expect from our hot hatch is great flat, in gear acceleration, good ride and handling and some bling; not just high top speed.

Last edited by 46TheDoctor : 10th July 2012 at 10:23.
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Old 10th July 2012, 11:27   #128
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

Thanks to our government for keeping us in the dark for years and dependent on what Maruti could serve up. My first "Hot" hatch had to be a maruti 800. We were never exposed to where the world was going and I blame the government and its policies for keeping us well entrenched as a THIRD world country. Even now the duties are so prohibitive and import of a lot of cars banned. For gods sake, nepal, bangladesh, sri lanka and pakistan have it better than us. As far as I can look , we will remain a third world country and we only have the prohibitive policies of this government to blame.
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Old 10th July 2012, 13:54   #129
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To me a perfect hot hatch would be the Ford Figo with the Ford Fiesta's 1.6 L engine!
Till now I was holding myself back but if going by your definition, my Fusion 1.6 Petrol qualifies as a hot hatch.
In my eyes, it always was.
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Old 10th July 2012, 17:24   #130
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

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Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
we can then suggest them the 1.5 L diesel from the new global Fiesta, which would still stay within small car definition and find more takers as well, as it is Diesel.
We already have two sibling hatches with a 1.5L diesel engine, the Micra and the Pulse. I really dont know if these cars can be called Hot hatches. Maybe the dCi engine is not as powerful as the one in the global fiesta.

Engines in India are tuned more for mileage than for performance. Only when the mindset of the Mango Indian buyer changes, will the hot hatches ever see the light of the day.
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Old 10th July 2012, 17:39   #131
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

I have had this thought quite a lot of times and after a little bit of real world thinking and analysis, I think the main reason manufacturers are hesitant is because of the lack of demand of these kind of powerful cars (lower FE for aam janta + higher cost and maintenance). After a quick market analysis by xyz user survey company, the numbers would be insufficient to make sense to the marketing department in car companies. This is what really happens.

Now that aside, if we really think about making a 150bhp turbo hatchback for around 7L, I think the problem would be the displacement of the engine. If i am not mistaken the smallest turbo petrol engine with respectable performance and reliability at this point is the 1.4tsi or 1.4 multiair. Plonking either of these in a small hatch would encounter 2 main issues, firstly at this time they are both imported engines (so import duties) and secondly and most importantly they would fail to get the 8% excise benefit of having a small engine (which i feel most hatchbacks are counting on to keep the cost down). So i feel a larger turbo engine is out of the question at this point.

However like GTO pointed out, you don't need bhp to have fun. I feel to make a realistic hot hatch for our market things like handling, exhaust and aggressive gearing can be quite handy. To make a car enjoyable and quick in our road and traffic conditions, i think faster in gear acceleration (peppy and better tuned gear ratios), ability to change direction efficiently (stiffer suspension, lowered maybe), sound (factory tuned FFE, performance filters, CAI etc) and of course looks (bigger rims, low profile tyres, optional body kits etc)

I think a combination of some or all of these would generate a substantial bump in performance and is mostly what people in India do in the name of modifying or tuning their cars. These things can be easily done by manufacturers and at the reasonable cost if done in large numbers. I feel if someone was to do this is realistically, this could be a nice way to start.
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Old 10th July 2012, 18:16   #132
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

We have a hot hatch now. Any takers?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...le-driven.html

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The Mini Cooper has been launched in India at a price of between 24.90 - 31.99 Lakhs (ex-Delhi).

The Mini Cooper S is powered by a 1.6L turbo-charged petrol rated at 184 BHP (@ 5,500 rpm) and 240 Nm torque (@ 1,600 - 5,000 rpm). The overboost function (activated by burying the accelerator into the floor) bumps up torque by another 20 Nm. If you ever needed proof that one doesn't need a 500 BHP car to have fun, this is it. The Cooper S tips the scales at 1,165 kilos; that is a full 65 kilos lighter than the Indian VW Beetle which has a mere 114 BHP of power on tap
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Old 10th July 2012, 18:55   #133
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

I'd buy the Cooper S if it was offered with a manual box. my understanding is that its only offered with an automatic.

With an auto, a hot hatch it is not, regardless of anything else.
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Old 10th July 2012, 20:30   #134
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Default Re: Do car makers in India lack courage? Where are the *true* Hot Hatches?

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Originally Posted by racer_ash View Post
We already have two sibling hatches with a 1.5L diesel engine, the Micra and the Pulse. I really dont know if these cars can be called Hot hatches. Maybe the dCi engine is not as powerful as the one in the global fiesta.
Two things Ash, one - as you have rightly pointed out, the dCi engine in the state of tune that they have been plonked into these hatches isn't promising. The same engine is available in more powerful variants as well, Renault India - are you listening?
Second thing, neither the Micra nor the Pulse have the steering or suspension setup to match the Figo's dynamic package.

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Till now I was holding myself back but if going by your definition, my Fusion 1.6 Petrol qualifies as a hot hatch.
In my eyes, it always was.
Actually yes! The Fusion was one of the hot hatches available in India, the only one at its time I suppose. Had it been a bit lower, that small bit closer too the road, then it would have really made a bigger difference with better road holding. Not that it is bad now, but better is always, well 'better' right? By the way, keep ruling the city with your hot hatch boss
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Old 10th July 2012, 20:48   #135
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By the way, keep ruling the city with your hot hatch boss
Thanks, I also have T-Jet to accompany my hot hatch (or X over).
So I have the best of both worlds. Touchwood.
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