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Old 6th March 2012, 17:43   #16
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Do not write off Saab. Technology which Saab has is quite exclusive. .
Saab went down because they refused to compromise on their obsession for quality. Maybe some of that will rub on TATA!
You are spot on with your observation about the depth of Saab's engineering prowess.

WRT Tata's abysmal QC record, I wonder if they will ever learn! JLR does not seem to have done them any good either. Aria by itself is a nice product even if overpriced in the eyes of most folks. However even for the anemic numbers they are selling, reading about their QC from the threads on the forum gives a sense of deja vu.

As the saying goes- the more things change the more they remain the same. Maybe the saying was coined for TML QC?
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Old 6th March 2012, 17:57   #17
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

Tata Motors denies Saab bid.

"Last night Indian newspaper The Indian Express reported that Tata Motors of Indian had placed a $350 million bid on Saab. Now Tata denies the bid.
"No, we have not done that," said Chairman of the board of Tata Ratan Tata to the Wall Street Journal.

Chairman Ratan Tata is currently at the Geneva Auto show where Wall Street Journal asked him about the alleged Tata bid.
But I know of another Indian company which has placed a bid: Mahindra," Ratan Tata continued"





Life with Saab - Essential Saab news: Tata Motors denies Saab bid[
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Old 6th March 2012, 18:03   #18
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

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Originally Posted by indivic View Post
That article was written in Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:26am EST. as true to article BAIC or some chinese co did tried to buy SAAB But GM refused to share anything technology wise , Apparently no point in having SAAB and deal feel thru. I am not sure if they have agreed to share technology but IMO Americans will be far more comfortable dealing with TATA;s / Mahindra than Chinese , partly due to indian;s respect for IPR and Chinese Penchant for reverse engineering everything under the sun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Do not write off Saab. Technology which Saab has is quite exclusive. their cars were more expensive than the competition, but the reason was that the cars were extremely safe, and over engineered.
Saab went down because they refused to compromise on their obsession for quality. Maybe some of that will rub on TATA!
+ 1 . Might be wishful thinking, but who knows TATA;s might learn a thing or two about QC from them .

Pretty strange as website you referred seems to be speculative one. it quotes Mr Tata telling reporter's that Mahindra;s are bidding ??. why would he disclose that in press when mahindra;s officially aren ;t forthcoming on the matter . even Mahindra;s themselves are denying having Bid for SAAB if one goes through the WSJ article . See the Bold Below. IMO they nobody wants to come public on what ;s going on .

Quote:
GENEVA -- Tata Motors Ltd. Chairman Ratan Tata Tuesday denied a news report that the company, India's largest auto maker by revenue, has placed a bid for the assets of failed Swedish car maker Saab Automobile.

"No we didn't," he said on the margins of the motor show. "But I know another Indian company has: Mahindra."

He didn't elaborate further.

Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd., India's largest sport-utility vehicle maker by sales, called it a speculation.

"We don't comment on speculation," spokesman Mohan Nair said.


Indian newspaper Financial Express reported Tuesday that Tata Motors had made a $350 million bid for Saab's assets.

The report, citing people aware of the matter, said Tata Motors' global acquisition team has been in talks with Saab and private-equity players for a prospective acquisition by its U.K.-based unit Jaguar Land Rover.

Tata Motors' had in 2008 acquired Jaguar Land Rover from Ford Motor Co. for $2.3 billion.

Saab Automobile, owned by Dutch company Swedish Automobile NV, filed for bankruptcy in December last year. A cash crunch had earlier in March 2011 forced the car maker to halt vehicle production.

Saab had in December said its former owner, General Motors Co., refused to approve a rescue plan with China's Zhejiang Youngman Lotus Automobile Co. that forced the Swedish company to file for bankruptcy. GM had objected to the new ownership structure proposed by Saab saying that it would hurt its competitiveness.

Saab's models are based on technology licensed from GM which is an important player in the Chinese auto market.

Saab Automobile and its two subsidiaries, Saab Automobile Tools and Saab Automobile Powertrain, have been in the hands of court appointed receivers since declared bankrupt.

The receivers in charge of Saab's bankruptcy have since December received some bids for the assets, including one from Zhejiang Youngman.

According to reports, Turkish private-investment company, Brightwell Holdings, and Mahindra have also expressed interest in the assets of the bankrupt Swedish brand.

Swedish car maker Volvo Car Corp., owned by Zhejiang Geely Holding Group, had said Feb. 7 that it is interested in buying some of Saab Automobile's machinery and test equipment.

Last edited by .sushilkumar : 6th March 2012 at 18:14.
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Old 6th March 2012, 18:22   #19
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Do not write off Saab. Technology which Saab has is quite exclusive. their cars were more expensive than the competition, but the reason was that the cars were extremely safe, and over engineered.
Saab went down because they refused to compromise on their obsession for quality. Maybe some of that will rub on TATA!
Apart from technology, its the inherent customer base as well which Top Gear very well picked up during their tribute aired last week. Here is the glimpse
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Old 6th March 2012, 18:38   #20
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

Quote:
Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
That article was written in Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:26am EST. as true to article BAIC or some chinese co did tried to buy SAAB But GM refused to share anything technology wise , Apparently no point in having SAAB and deal feel thru. I am not sure if they have agreed to share technology but IMO Americans will be far more comfortable dealing with TATA;s / Mahindra than Chinese , partly due to indian;s respect for IPR and Chinese Penchant for reverse engineering everything under the sun.
As I indicated before the IP is related to previous generation(s) of 9-5 and 9-3, a few more articles confirming the same

China's BAIC buys Saab technology for $200m - FT.com

BBC News - Beijing in Saab technology deal

And a site from Sweden, showing the Chinese face of the old models

BAIC and their SAAB purchase | SaabsUnited.com

What GM is blocking is

GM halts sale of Saab to Chinese firms - The Local

These are the current gen models.
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Old 6th March 2012, 19:21   #21
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

I had driven Saab's few times when I worked in US. They were quirky cars with a aircraft cockpit inspired dashboard and these cars had a identity of their own unlike the boring and mundane cars we mostly see now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Do not write off Saab. Technology which Saab has is quite exclusive. their cars were more expensive than the competition, but the reason was that the cars were extremely safe, and over engineered.
Saab went down because they refused to compromise on their obsession for quality. Maybe some of that will rub on TATA!
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Old 6th March 2012, 19:30   #22
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Companies like Tata have stopped investing in India post Singur and are thus taking their Capital out of India and investing in Euro companies. And it seems that the UPA govt is also alright with this and is even trying to privatise Indian banks, healthcare, insurance and sell them off to shady private investors or to global buyers. Looking at the big picture it seems that there is well a sinister undercurrent that is swirling all around the economy post UPA-2.
Also see that in the background of Tata's experience with trying to (re)start and airlines company. One understands them preferring to take their investment outside India.

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Originally Posted by RS_DEL View Post
WRT Tata's abysmal QC record, I wonder if they will ever learn!
I see Tata a bit differently. QC is related to cost of production and hence price/margins.

Tata seems to fill a gap in the cost-quality position in the market quite well. If their QC was better and their products would cost, say 10-15% extra, there would be few takers. IMHO, Tata is smarter than it seems.
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Old 6th March 2012, 20:01   #23
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
I see Tata a bit differently. QC is related to cost of production and hence price/margins.

Tata seems to fill a gap in the cost-quality position in the market quite well. If their QC was better and their products would cost, say 10-15% extra, there would be few takers. IMHO, Tata is smarter than it seems.
Sure. What about the folks who plumped up for the Aria? Please note I am not referring to the Vista or Manza. Aria is a "premium" product. If after buying a "premium" product folks have to suffer QC issues then there is something seriously wrong with the company and there is nothing smart about that.
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Old 6th March 2012, 20:24   #24
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_DEL View Post
You are spot on with your observation about the depth of Saab's engineering prowess.

WRT Tata's abysmal QC record, I wonder if they will ever learn! JLR does not seem to have done them any good either. Aria by itself is a nice product even if overpriced in the eyes of most folks. However even for the anemic numbers they are selling, reading about their QC from the threads on the forum gives a sense of deja vu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_DEL View Post
Sure. What about the folks who plumped up for the Aria? Please note I am not referring to the Vista or Manza. Aria is a "premium" product. If after buying a "premium" product folks have to suffer QC issues then there is something seriously wrong with the company and there is nothing smart about that.
I agree with the Aria bit mate. Premium pricing should mean a premium experience and it really doesn't seem to be working well.

However, my thought was more about the company being branded as a whole and about "if they will ever learn".

That made it seem that Tata was acting like some stupid company and I thought that they had identified a segment in the market, which they were fulfilling well with many of their models. And I appreciate Tata for that. It was to get a perspective to the discussion on the thread, about how Tata may be smarter than it initially seems.
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Old 6th March 2012, 20:38   #25
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
I agree with the Aria bit mate. Premium pricing should mean a premium experience and it really doesn't seem to be working well.

as to get a perspective to the discussion on the thread, about how Tata may be smarter than it initially seems.
Even for the chap who is buying an Indica forget the Vista or Manza or Safari , the argument that he is buying a "VFM" vehicle and therefore should be content with the deficient QC is specious at best. I am sorry I can not agree with your line of thought.

If TML top management is using this trade off i.e. QC-VFM to garner volumes sooner than later it will bite them on their behinds. This is nothing but penny wise pound foolish.

There will be lemons coming out every assembly line be it Honda or Toyota or Nissan or Suzuki - that is not being discussed.
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Old 6th March 2012, 20:44   #26
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

The cars were zippy to drive and with notch backs were quite distinctive. I wouldn't call technology wise or quality wise they were that great to find a mention. Lately the platforms were common ones found on GM cars.

Dont know what TATA would have found with the acquisition.

Werent't they the ones who persisted with two stroke engine technology for the longest time? (could have googled but lazy :()

Last edited by srishiva : 6th March 2012 at 20:45.
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Old 6th March 2012, 21:02   #27
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

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Originally Posted by RS_DEL View Post
Even for the chap who is buying an Indica forget the Vista or Manza or Safari , the argument that he is buying a "VFM" vehicle and therefore should be content with the deficient QC is specious at best. I am sorry I can not agree with your line of thought.
Ah sure, we can have different points of view and I like the idea of different points of view. I too get to learn.

Now VFM means different things to different people.

When one buys a Tata, one usually is knowingly trading off some QC, for a lower price, more space, cheap spares (usually also available in the local market). It is the space in the market that Tata has chosen to fill in. And it does have takers.

If they tried Honda like QC, their products would cost a lot higher. Doubt they would be able to survive in a space where a Manza was priced close to a Honda City.

It is not that they haven't thought or learnt about QC. It just doesn't seem to be what they think they should spend more on, in the current market situation and their company's growth path.

Would not be taking this further, as it is getting quite OT for the thread, mate. I appreciate that we have different points of view. Thanks for sharing your views mate.
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Old 7th March 2012, 13:01   #28
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
Pretty strange as website you referred seems to be speculative one. it quotes Mr Tata telling reporter's that Mahindra;s are bidding ??. why would he disclose that in press when mahindra;s officially aren ;t forthcoming on the matter . even Mahindra;s themselves are denying having Bid for SAAB if one goes through the WSJ article . See the Bold Below. IMO they nobody wants to come public on what ;s going on .
" It is Mahindra, not us, which has bid for Saab: Ratan Tata" reports ET too.

It is Mahindra, not us, which has bid for Saab: Ratan Tata - The Economic Times
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Old 7th March 2012, 17:22   #29
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

Saab's engineering prowess is an overstated piece of horse manure. Their cars were always a generation behind in most aspects and the only plus point they had was the chunky discounts.

With the advent of stricter crash testing norms, almost every mainstream car maker raised their safety standards, Saab had no distinct advantage. Turbocharging is also a very common phenomenon.

So what you ended up was with a very average car, usually on the heavier side, poor resale values, a diminishing brand (when was the last time you heard of Saab winning any form of motorsport) and even at times tacky interiors. May as well buy a cheaper Vauxhall, its literally the same car.

Stiffening a chassis or adding all wheel drive does not involve rocket science or aerospace for that matter which Saab ads cheesily claims, their R&D involved simply working on GM platforms.

The brand was a lost cause a decade ago, the only thing its good for now is scavenging the factory of its machinery or maybe whats remaining of a dwindling distribution network, something that usually excite the chinese whose car industry literally relies on scavenging on left over models of Japanese and European makers.

I dont think Tata or Mahindra will trow cash at Saab expecting anything great in return!!
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Old 2nd December 2013, 22:42   #30
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Default Re: Tata Motors places $350 million bid for Saab Automobile: ET Report

SAAB finally started producing vehicles in their Swedish plant. Here is an abstract from Top Gear

"News reaches us today that National Electric Vehicle Sweden, Saab's new owner, has restarted car production at the company's Trollhättan plant."
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