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Old 13th March 2012, 17:38   #121
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

According to me, there are a few areas where the Vista can be improved -

- Redesigning the lower part of the dashboard so that tall drivers (6 ft plus) can drive the Vista without their legs rubbing against the dashboard. Pulling the drivers seat back is not the solution because then the steering wheel gets away from the driver. Get some 6 footers to do some testing on the Vista and see if they can find a comfortable position - very unlikely. If the dashboard redesign is difficult/expensive, the steering wheel could be given the "Reach" functionality to the solve the problem.

- On rough roads, the car sometimes passes on the shocks (accompanied by a muted "clunk" sound) directly to the driver through the steering wheel. Tata needs to check the steering / suspension mechanism of the Vista to see if something's wrong.

- While you are at redesigning the dashboard, might as well make room in the footwell for a dead pedal. And that goes for not just Vista but all Tata products, especially for highway cruisers like the Aria.

- Definitely needs a better quality stereo. My mobile belts out better quality music

Other than that, Vista is a brilliant car. Whenever I drive the Vista (and I do that quite often), I keep wondering if the car is really a Tata.

Last edited by GTO : 13th March 2012 at 23:14. Reason: Quoted post has been deleted
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Old 13th March 2012, 19:11   #122
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

a) For me, the main drawback in the Vista is the size of the boot in comparison to the passenger space.

I could understand that at design stage the government's small car criterion was length <3.8m. Considering that now it is clear that <4 m is the cut off, so a slightly longer Vista with boot space like in the Jazz would bring in more sales.

b) Move to EPS from hydraulic, since the current steering is anyway family oriented

c) A 1.2l ,16-valver petrol engine with about 85 horses.

d) A slightly more taut rear should improve overall dynamics

ahem : a subjective request, the Vista always reminds me of myself , heavy body with weak knees, so hijacking a Ford engineer in charge of suspension design should help ...

Thanks for listening to us!

Last edited by GTO : 13th March 2012 at 23:14. Reason: Quoted post has been deleted
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Old 13th March 2012, 20:17   #123
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick1977 View Post

Lastly I have also observed that people expect tooooo much from Tata motors along with a crazily low price. We want a perfectly BIG car which handles & speeds like a F1 car, gives mileage like a bullock cart, zero maintenance, ABS + Air bags is a must (God!!!!) and should not more than 5L. Is the manufacturer sitting here to do charity? Lets face it that each manufacturer wants to maximize profits. If Suzuki can, why cant' Tata's?
For Indians expecting more from TATA motors, Tata motors as a Indian car company takes the blame/responsibility as they aroused patriotic emotions among indian car buyers as they named thier cars Indica, Indigo and also they claimed Nano is to help a common indian family with child(ren) on scooter to move safely to their Rs. 1 Lakh Nano.

TATA sent message to buyers that they can expect from them. They are also delivering bits and pieces improving upon quality. I am happy that new 2011 Vista comes with most features if TATA offers an A/T on VX and ZX variants and price VX AT at 5.9L and ZX AT at 6.49 L then I would consider TATA has fulfilled its committment to Indian buyers.

ONLY TATA lured indian car buyers like no others. Suzuki or Mahindra no other car makers lured like TATA did. Therefore I and other fellow Indians expect more from TATA. TATA is like my ancestor's company. There is a binding emotionally that is why we criticize TATA more and more expect TATA to score more.. TATA to do well become top notch is our wish.

TATA can responsibly make reasonable profits on their cars by selliong them to Indians but TATA Looting fellow indian is not allowed. We Indians have shown Aria a clear thumbs down due to Looting level prices. Even on low priced Nano We as Indians didnot rush just based on cheap price tag alone. TATA can succeed further ONLY by delivering to average Indian car buyer's straight forward needs.

Last edited by harimakesh : 13th March 2012 at 20:27.
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Old 14th March 2012, 13:01   #124
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
According to me, there are a few areas where the Vista can be improved - Reply in between the quote in bold

- Redesigning the lower part of the dashboard so that tall drivers (6 ft plus) can drive the Vista without their legs rubbing against the dashboard. Pulling the drivers seat back is not the solution because then the steering wheel gets away from the driver. Get some 6 footers to do some testing on the Vista and see if they can find a comfortable position - very unlikely. If the dashboard redesign is difficult/expensive, the steering wheel could be given the "Reach" functionality to the solve the problem.

I am 6'2" and have not found an issue of the legs rubbing against the dashboard as yet. I have driven mine for about 200 kms or so, only. A redesign on the dashboard is probably the most expensive tooling to be done, so that is not going to happen in the near future.


- On rough roads, the car sometimes passes on the shocks (accompanied by a muted "clunk" sound) directly to the driver through the steering wheel. Tata needs to check the steering / suspension mechanism of the Vista to see if something's wrong.
Haven't noticed this as yet. Will check and update

- While you are at redesigning the dashboard, might as well make room in the footwell for a dead pedal. And that goes for not just Vista but all Tata products, especially for highway cruisers like the Aria.
I have seen a lot of people complaining about this. Honestly, I have never found this to be an issue. This could be because of my height, but I think it is because of the seat height with respect to the steering. The seating in all the Tata cars (I have had them all at various stages, except Aria and Xenon) is placed higher, more bench-like than race-car like. I guess the natural position of the foot would be flat on the floor. I use my toe for acceleration, so it is relaxed. Maybe I am used to it.


- Definitely needs a better quality stereo. My mobile belts out better quality music

Other than that, Vista is a brilliant car. Whenever I drive the Vista (and I do that quite often), I keep wondering if the car is really a Tata.

Having had 3 iterations, (Indica Turbo, Indigo Marina, Indica Vista) collectively driven close to 3 lakh kms, I tend to agree!
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Old 15th March 2012, 15:26   #125
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by indivic View Post
a) For me, the main drawback in the Vista is the size of the boot in comparison to the passenger space.
......so a slightly longer Vista with boot space like in the Jazz would bring in more sales.
How many time have I thought the same thing.... But I understood why they dont do it from reading the story of Lee Iacoca and Ford Mustang. He says 2inches (5cms) increase in the length of Ford Mustang in 60s would have costed some million dollars then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indivic View Post
b) Move to EPS from hydraulic, since the current steering is anyway family oriented
!
I thought Indica Vista already had EPS. ISnt it so ? If they have HPS then I dread to think how the EPS would be like.
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Old 15th March 2012, 15:47   #126
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

I own a Swift DDIS old model. I was in Ahmedabad for 3 days and had Vista as a cab and oh boy the rear seat is just carnivorous. I mean it can put most of the cars a segment above to shame in terms of space.

If I have a driver the Vista will surely be the best bet but if I am driving the turbo push of DDIS is unbeatable. BTW the Vista had done 95k on odo and had fewer rattles than my 40k swift.

So coming to the point yes Indica is underrated as a package thanks to taxi image.
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Old 15th March 2012, 18:37   #127
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tazmaan View Post
I own a Swift DDIS old model. I was in Ahmedabad for 3 days and had Vista as a cab and oh boy the rear seat is just carnivorous. I mean it can put most of the cars a segment above to shame in terms of space.
You analysed the situation in your post very well. How many people who buy Swift/Dzires appoint a driver. So it will be ages before INDICA Vista even thinks of threatening the swift marketshare.
Thanks for providing joke of the day. BTW It should be "Cavernous".

This thread is a classic example of "Going around in Circles"
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Old 15th March 2012, 18:57   #128
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

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Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
You analysed the situation in your post very well. How many people who buy Swift/Dzires appoint a driver. So it will be ages before INDICA Vista even thinks of threatening the swift marketshare.
Thanks for providing joke of the day. BTW It should be "Cavernous".

This thread is a classic example of "Going around in Circles"
Get the point carwatcher .. forgive the spellings. The Vista is indeed better than the cramped Swift, but it's we Indians with skewed mentality that cannot think straight !
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Old 16th March 2012, 09:35   #129
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

This thread has been an interesting ride for me. Going through the reactions and experiences of the members, I am able to conclude the following:
The Swift has a huge fan following - thanks to its looks, engine/handling, aspirational value (to an extent) etc. Now this was definitely expected.

What comes as a pleasant surprise is that there is a fair section of Indica Vista loyalists - and the tribe appears to be increasing - the stengths of the vehicle being space and comfort, price etc.

Tatas certainly seem to be improving (and improving rapidly) on the Q front. From what it was 5 years ago the Indica (Vista) has shown that it can survive in a very competitive environment - agreed that large numbers are sold as taxis - but that is also a slice of the total pie and if not the Tatas someone else will take it. The Qualis sold quite a number to the taxi segment in its heyday but it was not naturally associated with 'taxi' in the minds of private buyers. The more they (Tata vehicles) go up the Q ladder - which they will given their global acquisitions/ R&D - the higher they will rise in the perception game. And I am certainly hopeful that in the not too distant future, they will be able to stack up well against Jap/Korean and maybe some German names too in our market.
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Old 16th March 2012, 09:54   #130
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Interesting analysis!

May be we should not bring the resale value aspect in current discussion as higher the hype(don't get me wrong swift is very good drivers machine, but I do feel it's bit over-hyped) higher the resale and that again we are questioning as why is it so.

As per me, I really like the looks of swift over vista. And it is better to drive, but vista is not far behind. View from vista driver is much better than swift and A pillar doesn't have as much blind spot as in swift. And backbench space is amazing. Turbo kick is more in swift but vista does have that kick but it is much linear in vista. For a family(normal people who are not handling specific) I feel Vista is much better package than Swift.

Oh forgot to mention, I recommended my uncle and a friend to buy. They both are completely enjoying the vehicle as it fits their requirement to T.
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Old 16th March 2012, 11:10   #131
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Well i just bought a Vista and before even starting the same the dream ended. I had a horrifying experience in buying a new car.I have posted all the details in this new thread. Thanks to Team Bhp and the PDI checklist i got saved.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...xperience.html (Tata Motors & Prerna Motors New Car Buying Experience)
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Old 16th March 2012, 14:20   #132
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

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Originally Posted by Dushie View Post
Well i just bought a Vista and before even starting the same the dream ended. I had a horrifying experience in buying a new car.I have posted all the details in this new thread. Thanks to Team Bhp and the PDI checklist i got saved.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...xperience.html (Tata Motors & Prerna Motors New Car Buying Experience)
Dushie - sorry to read about your bad experience. These things can really make a terrible impression about both the dealership as well as the company.
Just to put things in perspective I'm putting links to two threads that show this is not a Tata alone problem -

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-1-8-v-20.html (Peninsular Honda sells me a *new* repainted Honda Civic 1.8 V)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...oda-story.html (‘Torque Automotive have sold me a used car’ - Yet another Skoda story)

The first one concerns Honda and their dealer Peninsular Honda in Cochin. Incidentally I bought my car from them.

The second one concerns Skoda.

I hold no brief for the misdeeds of either Tatas or Prerna Motors and wanted to just show that this is not an isolated problem.
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Old 16th March 2012, 14:52   #133
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

i agree on the same and in fact i still want to buy that car. But they need to get the act straight as such kind of service and lousy behavior is not accepted. As of now i am waiting for an update from the dealership, then will take a call accordingly. They said that i would get a revert by evening so waiting for a response from them.

As i have asked them to document some of the key items i want before taking delivery of vehicle in writing, as i don't want any new surprises later on.

Last edited by Dushie : 16th March 2012 at 14:53.
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Old 16th March 2012, 18:06   #134
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Tata has paid the price for trying to cover too many bases with one Car.

Tata tried to tread a middle path in terms of not loosing its taxi clients and private buyers. Plenty of cars are common in India not just Indica but none of these cars are stuck with a taxi image. Swift is common, Santro is common, i10 is common etc but they are looked upon as purely personal vehicles. How much-ever one tries to run away from the fact that taxi image does not matter it matters and it matters big time. Tata has paid the price for not changing the looks of the Indica despite knowing it very well that the car had become synonymous with a Taxi. another mistake they did was keeping the old model going alongside the new one without significantly altering their design philosophy with Vista. Ask any layman on the street and he would be hard pressed to differentiate between the two. They have shortened the lifecycle of Vista by keeping the decade old dated design going where people perceive it to be a more than a decade old dated car. However good the product is, till there is a negative perception about the product in terms of image, sales and service, and resale it will always be up against it. A car which still has a monopoly in the taxi market and its next generation sibling together manage to sell around 10k which is half as much as a Swift does.

Now finally coming to the controversial issue where forget all the other issues and lets talk about the two products in isolation. The Swift is much better looking, much better handling, much better put together, has a premium feel, the engine is in a much better tune and the steering response is much better. The advantage Vista had over swift is in two areas. The Vista is much more spacious and has a airy cabin. It has much better ride quality. Now people who wants space and good ride quality should definitely go for the Vista but for everything else the Swift it is . It is not that the Vista is bad it is just that the Swift is more rounded and better overall package unless you want a car to carry 5 people most of the times.

Last edited by needforspeed88 : 16th March 2012 at 18:11.
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Old 16th March 2012, 18:45   #135
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

In my view, the biggest problem with the Vista is its lack of style and design flair. And there's a reason behind it too, as I shall just explain.

When the 1st-gen Indica was unveiled at the January 1998 Auto Expo, it had dazzled one and all with its stylish good looks. However, a decade later, when Tata unveiled the Vista at 2008 Expo, no ripples were caused. While the unveiling of Nano at the same event was partly to blame, it was also because the car lacked style. Heck, it looked outdated!

Do you know how much Tata paid to IDEA for styling the 1st gen Indica? A whopping 80 crore rupees! When the time came to design & style its successor, the company was undergoing a major cost-cutting exercise due to financial problems. Unfortunately, the cost cutting got extended to the design deptt. too. So instead of hiring a reputed design studio, Tata poached a junior guy from IDEA, helped him set up his own design boutique, and lo and behold, emerged the stylistically challenged Vista!

So while the 1st gen Indica looks good even after 14 years of existence (have you seen a brand new CR4 LX lately?), the Vista fails to impress in terms of style, even though it is an improved product otherwise.

The Swift is no beauty but at least it has style and presence.

The moral of the story is: Only hire a reputed car stylist, pay him more and sell your car more!

Cheers!
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